Building our immune systems with Stage IV bc

hi Deanna, I remember reading something about the MCP being too big or too long for the body to use it and that is the reason for modifying. It was years ago now so I don't remember the exact details. I am taking Maitake D-Fraction for immunity. it come in a dropper bottle and I put the drops in my coffee. It's very powerful for the immune system as well as a cancer fighter. I also read that maitake is the most easily absorbed mushroom when taken orally. as opposed to infusion or whatever. I think they use it for BC in Germany.

I've spent the majority of the past 5+ years immune compromised, having been on chemo most of that time, so this is a subject that interests me too. Sandilee - I agree with you completely that exercise and sleep are so helpful in terms of staying well, especially sleep. My doctor has mentioned B vitamins too, and when I was on Xeloda, she recommended taking a supplement (can't remember why Xeloda in particular...maybe something to do with the hand/foot syndrome).

Something I've heard in passing and wondered about is the notion that the majority of our immune system is in our digestive system. I've heard taking a probiotic and/or eating yogurt is helpful in that regard, though I don't exactly understand the science behind it. I get that healthy gut bacteria helps from a digestion perspective, but I don't understand exactly how that ties into the immune system. I'm always skeptical of any food or supplement that claims to "boost immunity" because that seems like such a general statement, but yogurt and/or probiotics seem like perfectly reasonable, low-tech, low-cost things to incorporate into an overall healthy routine.

Dear all. I attend the Penny Bhron Cancer Centre here in the UK. I went to a talk by a wonderful GP there, and was lucky enough to have a one our consultation with her afterwards. In brief, her talk explained that the immune system is in reality the white cells in our blood that are responsible for keeping it clear of infection and eliminating rogue cells including pre cancerous and cancerous cells. We need to keep our white cells strong and plentiful. Stress depletes white cells being in the right place to do their thing as when the body is stressed, releasing adrenalin and cortisol, white cells rush to the limb muscles to support our fight or flight response. Constant stress thus undermines the immune system. At the same time, adrenalin and cortisol and insulin we produce when stressed help create an internal environment conducive to supporting rogue cells. So a healthy stress free life with a good low sugar sensible carb, high veg low fruit (sugars) diet is recommended, along with exercise to aid creation of good endorphins and to raise spirits, and mental well - being, through a faith if you have one, meditation, mindfullness, etc.

In terms of food, oily fish twice a week if you can, eat organic as much as possible, use herbs and spices freely in food as they are very beneficial containing high anti cancer properties, especially turmeric, rosemary, thyme. Half a teaspoon of cinnamon a day will help keep blood sugar levels stable ( I stir it into my muesli before i add the rice milk and it is delicious), keep dairy low, use alternative milks such as rice, oats if possible. Eat more nuts and seeds , avoid red meat and chargrilled food too often. Wholefoods - brown rice not white, try other grains such as millet, barley; brown floors in cooking, alternatives to processed sugars (if you must add sweetness) such as date syrup, rice syrup, xylitol which is made from birch trees and can be used spoon for spoon like sugar. Apparently our bodies need just two teaspoons of sugar at any one time to function. More goes to fat. We can get all the sugars we need from eating natural foods. Too much sugar can cause insulin spikes in our blood which is not good for us.

They have a diagram of a healthy eating plate which shows at least half of a meal should be vegetables. Healthy oils like olive, avoid vegetable oil and sunflower oil as very processed. Try not to let oil reach too high a temp when cooking as at high temps all oils mutate and become harmful to us. Use avocado, walnut, hemp, sesame oils for salad dressings. Delicious and nutritious.

I copied this from the PB web site:

"Our Healthy Eating Guidelines are informed by current evidence relating to nutrition and cancer. This includes the landmark 2007 World Cancer Research Fund report: 'Food, Nutrition, Physical Activity and the Prevention of Cancer: a global perspective', and subsequent reports (2007 to 2015) published as part of the World Cancer Research Fund's Continuous Update Project."

You can find out more about the centre and its approach here: http://www.pennybrohncancercare.org/nutrition/

The whole approach to healthy eating is set out in this fact sheet which you can download here:

http://www.pennybrohncancercare.org/wp-content/upl...

I also highly recommend the cookery book, "Nourish". It has a starting chapter that sets out foods best to eat and avoid, explaining why in get detail. It can be ordered online form the centres shop. It has some lovely recipes to get you thinking about food in line with the overall approach.

This centre is held in high esteem in the UK. It has an approach based on the whole person, supporting people as they live with and after cancer. it is a charity, the president is the Prince of Wales and it does good things. It has helped me to really change the way that I live. Its not difficult and it all makes sense. Eating well is not hard, but knowing why I should be eating more brightly coloured veggies and why i should be avoiding processed foods has left me feeling both informed and empowered. I know that I am helping my immune system to stay strong, which means I hope it is dealing with the rogue cancer cells. Given that a healthy person has over one million cancer cells in their system at any one time, according to the Dr I spoke with, it shows how important our immune system white blood cells are. I have also started to learn Tai Chi, which I am loving, walk more and make an effort to enjoy every day instead of fretting about the future. Not so easy but I am getting there on that one.

I do hope that this information is of help to everyone. The Penny Bhron Approach has helped me. I hope that it may help some of you all, too. Best wishes, Boo

I don't have anything to offer but does anyone know how to increase white blood cell count? Just found out mine is low, and apparently due to letrozole/femara. Has me a little worried because you need them to fight off infection.

heidihill:yes it was Dr.Emens.

I have 2 questions.

1) Sandilee, why do you take Vit D2 over D3? Does it make a difference? How much do you take? Anyone else with advice about Vit D?

2) Have any of you heard (or used) IV Vitamin C? I have a friend in Hawaii with stage IV oral cancer. She was given IV Vit C and said it made her feel great. She is currently in remission, but she also took conventional meds and radiation.

Vivian I get weekly IV Vitamin C along with Vitamin D. I can't say for sure but I do think it helps my energy levels. I really dont have issues with energy even when my counts have been low. The main reason I get it, however is that's it's supposed to be anti-cancer as is the IV Vitamin D.

I take D3, multi-vitamin & B12 as well as drinking alkaline water. I also gave up all artificial sweetners and diet soda. I still eat sweets but can do without them if I stay away from them for 30 to 40 days (still working on this).

Terri

I love this thread! When I was first diagnosed Stage IV from the start, I immediately consulted with a naturalist and also spent many, many hours studying an immune system modulator called Transfer Factor by 4Life. I take Transfer Factor Plus which has a mushroom complex added to it. When I was going through chemo I doubled and even tripled up on this supplement. I won't go on and on about the details but take the time to Google it. I can't say enough about it but will tell you I have taken it religiously for seven years and I rarely ever even get a common cold. I also have been NED now for 7 years too and I think it plays a role. Anyway, I also take a host of other supplements Borage Oil, Calcium (1800 mg), Vitamin D3 (4800), CoQ10 (200 mg), Tumeric, L-Lysine, Melatonin with Theanine, V12 (because I am vegan), Vit C (1000), low dose aspirin. Off and on I may take herbs and homeopathic meds as directed by my naturalist.

This year I have started with the Forks over Knifes way of eating. I have been a Vegan for about 1 1/2 years but am taking it I think a step further by eliminating oils, butters, etc from my diet. I am not as diligent on the Forks over Knifes but improve every day.

Finally, the one thing that bothers me about traditional oncologists is that many will tell you not to take supplements or antioxidants when on chemo. They claim they are trying to destroy the cancer (and your body) and building your body back up is contrary to what they are trying to do. My oncologist doesn't subscribe to this theory but 7 years ago when I was on chemo my first oncologist actually told me he forbid me to take supplements.

It is interesting though how treatment is moving toward the immune therapy. I believe we need a combination of weapons to live longer ... good nutrition, supplements, exercise, healthy attitude, pharma drugs, good doctors and red wine :-)

Jen

jjski62,  thanks for letting me know about the Ibrance thread. I checked it out, not sure if I'm missing it but only see how to boost red blood cell counts?

Deanna, thanks for the post on vitamin D. Being from Canada and with our long cold winters my level was always low. I've been taking a once weekly 50,000 iu tablet as well as 5,000 iu's daily and my D level finally went from 91 which is at the low end of the range to 178. My nutritionist wants it at 275. My onc is ok with that and says to just keep having the level monitored until I'm at the high end of the range and then cut back to a maintenance dose. I've also improved my Vitamin B12 levels but struggling with iron, and white blood cell counts. Deanna this is a great thread you started,  love it, so much information and so much to learn from everyone.

Hi Jen, the cookbook Nourish that I referred to is the one published by Penny Bhron Cancer itself, with Christine Bailey, published by Duncan Baird Publishers, London. ISBN: 978-1-84899-076-0

Boo

Deanna, thank you for all the links, will check them all out. Yes our Vitamin D scale is different here in Canada,  25-Hydroxy Vitamin D levels have to fall within a reference range of 75 - 250. Mine was always low, one time 69, tried hard to improve it and got to 81, at least that was within the range but still considered low. Found out not all vitamin D brands are absorbed well so I switched brands and now I'm at 178. Interesting about the iron, will have to look into that.