ACTH vs TCH, especially looking at side effect profile?
Hi ladies,
I just came back from the oncologist and spoke to to her about which chemotherapy regimen would be good for me. I have ER+/PR+/Her2+ stage 1b breast cancer with no nodal involvement. The tumor was 1.1cm. My oncologist said I could either choose to have 4 months of ACTH (doxorubicin/cyclophosphamide/paclitaxel/1 yr Herceptin) or 6 months of TCH (docetaxel/carboplatin/1 yr Herceptin).
I have read in the forums of the bad side effects caused by doxorubicin ("the red devil") causing people to stay in bed and making it so hard to even get up to go to the bathroom. I was also concerned that doxorubicin causes decreased heart function which could make me unable to take a full year of Herceptin because once you have decreased heart function, they take you off of it. I really want to be able to take a full year of Herceptin as I think that is the most important drug to fight my cancer.
Could you tell me what were some of the hard side effects that you had to deal with using either of those regimens and whether you were able to go to work?
Thank you so much for your wisdom and advice!
Comments
-
This choice is difficult, and as with all aspects of treatment there are pluses and minuses to each. With AC-TH the drugs are not given concurrently. You would receive the AC portion first - usually dose dense, 4 treatments with two week intervals, then the Taxol and Herceptin given together either dose dense, or weekly. The reason for separating the Adriamycin and Herceptin is for the cardiotoxicity you mention in your initial post, but it is important to also note that heart damage from Adriamycin is usually permanent, while decreased ejection fraction with Herceptin is usually not. Herceptin on its own can cause decreased heart function, so having it with TC does not guarantee that you will be able to complete the year. You should be monitored with quarterly MUGA or echocardiograms to keep tabs on your heart health regardless of which regimen you receive. Adriamycin is usually associated with more nausea, taxane drugs with more bone/joint pain. There is no rhyme or reason why some experience more side effects than others - fitness, age, etc., don't seem to have much correlation. TCH is the regimen recommended by the doctor (Dennis Slamon from UCLA) who brought Herceptin to the market, I assume due to not wanting to administer two cardiotoxic drugs. I had 6 cycles of TCH, 21 days apart, and did not work during that time, but I had five surgeries prior to starting chemo, so things did not go according to plan! I did not experience much in the way of bone pain from either Taxotere or the Neulasta injection, and my overriding SE were the Big D and fatigue. I laid low for the first week - mostly to stay close to the bathroom (sorry - TMI!), then did fine for the remaining days before the next infusion - could do all the normal household stuff, run errands, etc. My job was in the hospital, dealing directly with patient treatment, and I did not feel confident enough about being able to do that, on my feet, for 8 hours a day. The department I worked in was often crisis driven and frequently we could not take breaks or lunch - or even sit down, so it was not a forgiving environment during chemo, not to mention the biohazards with a compromised immune system. I was fortunate to have both short and long term disability and FMLA available, so I did not return to work until 30 days after the last infusion. If my job had been more sedentary I might have been able to work even with the surgeries prior to treatment.
-
I had ACTHP. There were a couple days after each AC treatment where I didn't have a lot of energy. But I never had any nausea or vomiting. The taste buds being off was the worst for me. Even though I was fatigued, I still managed to clean the house, do laundry, cook, and take care of my three kids. The THP part was pretty easy for me. I felt great other than my taste buds being a little off for about 24 hours after the infusion. The fatigue did get a little harder towards the end but it wasn't bad. My heart function is still good. I dropped a couple points last time but my MO thought it was from the Herceptin. There's no way to know how you are going to react to a specific treatment. Everybody reacts differently.
-
Thanks SpecialK for sharing your story. I work in the hospital as well but I'm not as involved directly with patient care. I have short term disability and FMLA available but worry as FMLA only protects your job and benefits for 12 weeks. Once I go unpaid for 30 days I lose my insurance. That's also something that I worry about because it's so important to have continued insurance right now.
-
I wa scheduled to do TCHP but had to switch to AC+THP at the last minute due to insurance issues. I don't regret jumping into AC+THP instead of waiting for my insurance to get sorted out but I wish I had the option of TCHP. I worry about the long-term side effects of Adriamycin. It seems that both chemos are equally effective and chemo-related heart failure is a serious (if rare) matter. I see no reason to make things harder on yourself and not do TCH.
-
I also see you are only 35. If you wish to have more children, just know that Cytoxan is hard on the ovaries. All types of chemo can cause premature menopause but Cytoxan is the worst.
-
I did TCH X6 and Herceptin for the balance of the year. While doing the 6 TCH my Onc ordered Herceptin weekly. After the hard chemo was done I went every 3 weeks for Herceptin. I worked the entire time in a physician office. My biggest SE's were constipation followed by the big D. I had a nuelasta shot the day after chemo. I took clarition prior to the nuelasta shot and continued for several days for the bone pain from the shot. I have peripheral neuropathy from the taxotere. I also developed "taxotears" from the taxane drying out my eyes. My eye Dr treated that with a steroid eye drop until chemo was completed. Good luck as you start this journey.
-
jen - many do intermittent FMLA during chemo so you can take the day of chemo, and maybe odd days here and there. I had infusions on Thursdays and didn't feel bad for a couple of days - you could try to time feeling bad with regular days off and supplement with another day of FMLA. I have seen others do this successfully.
Categories
- All Categories
- 679 Advocacy and Fund-Raising
- 289 Advocacy
- 68 I've Donated to Breastcancer.org in honor of....
- Test
- 322 Walks, Runs and Fundraising Events for Breastcancer.org
- 5.6K Community Connections
- 282 Middle Age 40-60(ish) Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 53 Australians and New Zealanders Affected by Breast Cancer
- 208 Black Women or Men With Breast Cancer
- 684 Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer
- 1.5K Caring for Someone with Breast cancer
- 455 Caring for Someone with Stage IV or Mets
- 260 High Risk of Recurrence or Second Breast Cancer
- 22 International, Non-English Speakers With Breast Cancer
- 16 Latinas/Hispanics With Breast Cancer
- 189 LGBTQA+ With Breast Cancer
- 152 May Their Memory Live On
- 85 Member Matchup & Virtual Support Meetups
- 375 Members by Location
- 291 Older Than 60 Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 177 Singles With Breast Cancer
- 869 Young With Breast Cancer
- 50.4K Connecting With Others Who Have a Similar Diagnosis
- 204 Breast Cancer with Another Diagnosis or Comorbidity
- 4K DCIS (Ductal Carcinoma In Situ)
- 79 DCIS plus HER2-positive Microinvasion
- 529 Genetic Testing
- 2.2K HER2+ (Positive) Breast Cancer
- 1.5K IBC (Inflammatory Breast Cancer)
- 3.4K IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)
- 1.5K ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
- 999 Just Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastasis
- 652 LCIS (Lobular Carcinoma In Situ)
- 193 Less Common Types of Breast Cancer
- 252 Male Breast Cancer
- 86 Mixed Type Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Not Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastases but Concerned
- 189 Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care
- 488 Second or Third Breast Cancer
- 1.2K Stage I Breast Cancer
- 313 Stage II Breast Cancer
- 3.8K Stage III Breast Cancer
- 2.5K Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
- 13.1K Day-to-Day Matters
- 132 All things COVID-19 or coronavirus
- 87 BCO Free-Cycle: Give or Trade Items Related to Breast Cancer
- 5.9K Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results
- 86 Coping with Holidays, Special Days and Anniversaries
- 828 Employment, Insurance, and Other Financial Issues
- 101 Family and Family Planning Matters
- Family Issues for Those Who Have Breast Cancer
- 26 Furry friends
- 1.8K Humor and Games
- 1.6K Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts
- 706 Recipe Swap for Healthy Living
- 704 Recommend Your Resources
- 171 Sex & Relationship Matters
- 9 The Political Corner
- 874 Working on Your Fitness
- 4.5K Moving On & Finding Inspiration After Breast Cancer
- 394 Bonded by Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Life After Breast Cancer
- 806 Prayers and Spiritual Support
- 285 Who or What Inspires You?
- 28.7K Not Diagnosed But Concerned
- 1K Benign Breast Conditions
- 2.3K High Risk for Breast Cancer
- 18K Not Diagnosed But Worried
- 7.4K Waiting for Test Results
- 603 Site News and Announcements
- 560 Comments, Suggestions, Feature Requests
- 39 Mod Announcements, Breastcancer.org News, Blog Entries, Podcasts
- 4 Survey, Interview and Participant Requests: Need your Help!
- 61.9K Tests, Treatments & Side Effects
- 586 Alternative Medicine
- 255 Bone Health and Bone Loss
- 11.4K Breast Reconstruction
- 7.9K Chemotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 2.7K Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment
- 775 Diagnosed and Waiting for Test Results
- 7.8K Hormonal Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 50 Immunotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 7.4K Just Diagnosed
- 1.4K Living Without Reconstruction After a Mastectomy
- 5.2K Lymphedema
- 3.6K Managing Side Effects of Breast Cancer and Its Treatment
- 591 Pain
- 3.9K Radiation Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 8.4K Surgery - Before, During, and After
- 109 Welcome to Breastcancer.org
- 98 Acknowledging and honoring our Community
- 11 Info & Resources for New Patients & Members From the Team