Chest Ports VS PICC Lines *long sorry but hope it helps*
Hello! Just finished 20 weeks of chemo (yahoo!) and wanted to share some experiences that maybe rather unique to my situation. I was 'Lucky enough' to have to use both a chest port and a PICC line. Long story, short, the chest port became infected, quickly and badly. Apparently when chest ports go bad, they go really bad and you find yourself facing an emergency surgery to have it removed.
I've gotten conflicting feedback from the medical folks, Docs and nurses, as to how often chest ports get infected but based on the replies of "It rarely happens" to "It's not all that rare" I figure the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
My little veins didn't like the Taxol via a regular IV and played hard to get so my MO said, "You need a PICC line".
"Oh God", I thought, "not more surgery".
Then I got my PICC line and I'm here to tell you ladies, that little ole PICC line and I were the bestest of friends!
NO more pokes at all. No more lidocaine cream (which sometimes worked for me sometimes didn't). For me personally the PICC line suited me, my temperament and reduced the stress of chemo immensely.
Having said that PICC lines do come with their downfalls and problems as do chest ports. I'll share the pros and cons of each to help others out there, facing chemo, learn about some options that your MO may not suggest.
NOTE: sometimes due to other medical concerns as noted by your MO you maybe limited to one or the other. However in many cases, like myself, either or would have been fine.
Chest Port:
Pros: Once it's in and the insertion site properly healed you really don't need to do anything to maintain it. You can shower, swim and move around normally. A lot of women get along just fine with their chest ports and have them in for a year or more with no side effects or problems what so ever.
Cons: It's outpatient surgery to have it inserted. So you have to go through all the surgery rigor-marole of not eating, not drinking spending pretty much the whole day at the hospital. I had mine done with twilight anesthesia in the radiology but some patients have their ports implanted by a surgeon with general anesthesia. Either way it's 'surgery' with the larger IV used for anesthesia. If it gets infected it can be hard to detect and can become quite serious quickly. Even with strong antibiotics it took only one weekend for mine to go from "hmm that looks a little red" to oozing pus and OMG get it out now. Again, many women don't have this problem but I was told by several nurses and MD (including my surgeon "Yup it happens"). In my case I had to stop chemo and had a large draining wound in my chest for several weeks. Not good.
It still requires a needle. You will be given (or make sure you get!) lidocaine cream to put on your port prior to chemo, talk to your MO and chemo nurses on the best way to apply and when to apply, else you will feel the needle stick in the port. This varies given my fellow chemo patients feed back, some hardly feel the needle stick, some (like me) have problems with pain. Ultimately be aware, if you're like me and just would rather avoid needles and pokes as much as possible, there's another way!
The other con is on a more personal level, some people, myself included just hate chest ports and never got comfortable with it. I had trouble sleeping and at times it felt like it was strangling me. I've read similar comments on this forum that some women just don't like them.
Enter - The PICC line! This is a semi-permanent I.V. that is inserted in a larger vein, usually in your upper arm.
Pros: A properly trained nurse or radiology nurse can insert them. It's a simple shot of lidocaine and literally only takes minutes! I laid down, felt a little sting of the lidocaine shot. Waited a while and asked the nurse, "How's it going?" She said "All done, I just have to clean the area and put a dressing on." Literally less then ten minutes on the table, in and out.
Easy to monitor for problems. The dressing used to cover where the PICC line was inserted was clear, it was very easy to monitor it for problems, redness, infection. If a problem should crop up and the PICC needs to be removed the MO or nurses at the Chemo clinic can quickly remove it. No need for OMG surgery! The nurses change the dressing once a week at the chemo clinic, clean it and therefore can carefully monitor how your PICC line is doing.
NO needles, NO pokes, the blood for your blood tests are drawn through the external ports and chemo goes in through the ports.
For me a PICC line was far, far less stressful then chest port or the IV in the arm. According to one Chemo nurse she feels they are especially suited to shorter term chemo protocols.
The Cons: For some women these cons will be deal breakers, for me some of the cons listed below made me feel more empowered and able to monitor my PICC line daily myself. You have to flush the PICC line once a day. It usually has two ports and you will be given saline syringes that screw onto the port and push the saline in. The chemo nurses will teach you how to care for and monitor your PICC line. Hygiene is very important in keeping the PICC line from becoming infected. I used medical gloves and alcohol prep pads (again provided at the clinic) to carefully clean the ports before and after flushing. Ultimately, though, the flushing only took a maximum of 5 minutes per day once I had my routine down pat.
You cannot get it wet in the shower (see below I will be adding PICC line tips later). It's a bit like dealing with a cast on your arm, you have to cover it in the shower. No swimming with PICC line. You must be careful with the arm the PICC line is in, no heavy lifting of weights so it does limit exercise on the arm involved. You need to keep them covered so the ports don't accidentally catch on clothing or any other objects. (see below for PICC line tips on this too).
I told my MO I would have much rather had the PICC line to begin with. He doesn't like them because sometimes people do not take care of them. I took really good care of mine and while getting chemo recommended it to another patient who was having a terrible time with her veins and IV sticks. Her MO said O.K. and the next time I saw her she literally was all smiles. The relief for her was immense.
In some situations the PICC line may be a better alternative, it's good to know what your options are so that you can make informed decisions as to what suits not only your medical needs but also feel more comfortable with. It's your body and your journey!
(((HUGS)))) To all my warrior sisters! You can do this!
Comments
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Just wanted others to know that some breast surgeons can and do install ports during a mastectomy, although I don't think it is all that common. Mine did and I have no external scar, so it is worth asking if you are having surgery before chemo whether your BS can install the port, or have a vascular specialist or interventional radiologist do it during MX surgery. This allowed the area to heal well prior to starting chemo. I think one of the problems with ports is that they are often installed and then chemo is started soon afterward, sometimes within days - WBC and immunity drops and then they get infected. A PICC line would have been problematic for me as I had infusions for a year.
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Hi SpecialK
Good point on the surgery.
I wondered why my chest port was implanted as a separate surgery. We knew going into my masectomy that I was going to need chemo. I, however, did not know I would need a port or even what a port was at the time. I agree that the extra healing time for the chest port would have been beneficial.
Btw - I've used the term "installed" too and got some funny looks! Mostly I called it my Borg implant.
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I'm glad the PICC worked well for you - wish you hadn't had to deal with an infection and all of the problems though! I was very fortunate to have a BS who had been the department head at the only NCI designated cancer center in Fl - they developed the port during surgery protocol for those who would definitely be having chemo. I knew I was Her2+ with a greater then 2cm tumor - it was a given. They will also do a SNB during port install for those having neoadjuvent chemo so that there is more accurate staging and known nodal status prior to chemo.
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I had a SNB at the same time the tumors were biopsied.
Infected chest ports are no fun, that's for sure. Though it was a staph infection, I was fortunate that it was not MRSA. As it was I had a hole in my chest large enough to stick two fingers in with wiggle room. It was not pretty and added to my stress terribly.
My surgeon does perform the chest port implants as well. I don't know why it was not suggested to take care of it at the same time as my masectomy. The head chemo nurse and I were chatting about and she said the same thing as you. There's a few things that looking back I wonder about.
Still, even before the port was infected I just couldn't get comfortable with it. I had a hard time sleeping and I felt it and I was very conscious of it.
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Some of the PICC line tips I want to share with those getting or currently using PICC lines. :-)
PICC Line covers. You will need something to keep the ports from dangling and possibly catching on something, plus keep them out of view when out and about when wearing short sleeve shirts.
Apparently hospitals used to provide a simple sleeve to cover the PICC after you had them inserted. I didn't get one and was told by the nurse I could either cut the foot off a tube sock or panty hose and use that. Those work in a pinch but there are a couple of better ways.
There are PICC line covers available on line. The brand that Robin Roberts used is "Sleek Sleeves". They run about $20.00. I'm limited on funds, like a lot of other cancer patients, so I passed on them. Though they look really nice! Link below.
http://sleeksleeves.com/collections/arm-bands-and-...
Google PICC Line covers and you will find various products available online.
My solution was leg warmers. I found a pair at Walmart for $6.00 and another pair on Amazon for $9.00. So I had four comfortable PICC line covers that I could wear out and about and throw in the wash.
Showering with a PICC line. Some people use plastic bags and adhesive tape, which worked for me the first couple of times but was inconvenient and hard to apply well by myself. I found a product that worked wonderfully in the shower and wasn't too expensive, "Showereez Arm Cuff". Walgreens carries them online and they cost about $10.00 each. They are made of plastic with double elastic cuffs top and bottom. You still have to be careful in the shower with these but they were easy to put on and take off and provided better protection then my taped on bags. Got the Walgreens link to work in below post.
One more thought on the PICC line. If you have trouble doing the saline flush a caregiver may be able to assist. My Hubby helped me the first could of times until I got the hang of it.
If anyone else has helpful PICC line tips please share!
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http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/showereez-arm-cuff-mid-arm-limb-protector/ID=prod6056399-product
Hmm couldn't get the Walgreens link to work above so here it is!
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http://www.walgreens.com/store/c/showereez-arm-cuff-mid-arm-limb-protector/ID=prod6056399-product
Hmmm trouble with getting the links to work. Hopefully the above will work, won't open in a new tab though. :-(
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A thought or two on the topic...
I think picc lines can be appropriate for shorter courses of chemo and is certainly worth asking about. That being said, because of the open line and patient based care needed for a picc line, there is a greater chance for infection with a picc than a port. Clearly, infections from either ports or pics are no fun, but ports do have a lower overall infection rate, especially over time. This comparison may be a bit invalid, however, since piccs are generally not used for longer courses of tx. Again, for a short course of tx, I think a picc line is something that's worth asking about.
Disclosure: I have had a port for over 3 years. I hardly know it's there and it involves no care or caution on my part, though it does need to be flushed. Lidocaine or EMLA cream is not needed as my infusion center uses a numbing spray so I never feel the needle stick
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Hi exbrnxgrl.
Yes, I mentioned in my first post PICC lines are not suited for longer courses. That is true. Also that many women (and men for that matter) get along with them (chest ports) just fine.
I do question infection rate stats on chest ports though because when I asked, I got very wide range of responses.
I was made to feel like I was a really odd duck, though. Until I started speaking with Drs and other patients who have problems and/or infected chest ports. It maybe, as you said, a case of if they don't give you a problem at first then most likely they will be fine. However, they aren't as reliable or bulletproof as I was lead to believe when I was told I "had to have" a chest port.
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One more thought, I wasn't going touch on this but not all chemo clinics are created equal. :-((((
One time after chest port insertion I was in pain for 15 minutes. It was chalked up to my incorrect use of lidocaine........
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Doggiebytes,
Nothing that is inserted into you is going to be bulletproof or without risk, and shame on the medical professionals who lead anyone to believe that. However, looking at low risk vs. high risk and risk vs. reward is something we all need to evaluate. I should do some further disclosure here... I had a complete lung collapse two weeks after my port insertion, due to a teeny, tiny lung puncture which created something akin to a slow leak on a tire. The chances of this happening were about 1%. Then, after a period of hospitalization, my bone met was discovered and I never had chemo ! I did use my port for two years worth of Aredia infusions and currently use it for scans and blood draws. I figure that despite doing well, chemo will be in my future eventually.
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I had a picc Line for 4 months with no problems except that I was very sensitive to the adhesives in the bandages and had to use something specially ordered for me. In Canada I was assigned a home nurse to come once a week to flush my line, and bandage- all I had to do was make sure I kept it dry showering. My chemo nurse gave me a couple rubber tourniquets to use with a large size freezer baggie with a hole cut out so I could slip it over my picc line. I sewed Velcro on the tourniquet and became quite adapt at securing a seal top and bottom by myself. The "shower ease arm cuff" would have made things easier, but I managed. My onc said that in Ontario they like to remove the picc line on last chemo to help patients get on with life and put tx behind them- I liked this attitude!
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exbrnxgrl,
I understand that nothing is 100% when dealing with medical issues.
You know the saying "medicine is 50% science and 50% art". Sometimes I'd push the art part up to about 70%!
My intention with this thread was to share that under certain circumstances a PICC line *maybe* be a safe and better option. Sometimes we aren't aware of these options as newbies to this medical world. I did try to put caveats in my initial post that PICC lines aren't for every situation or person.
I was literally told that my chest port getting infected was very rare. This only increased my anxiety because if it's rare it must be really bad, or I did something wrong. Turns out that's not true and when a friend who is a nurse, my surgeon and some others who had dealt with chest ports told me "oh no, it happens....." I actually didn't feel as bad. Took many weeks for the hole in my chest to close up and required specialized wound care as well to heal.
Anyhoo, there are people who have PICC lines for chemo and I hope some of the information I provided helps them too.
I wish you MUCH peace and healing!. ((((Hugs)))).
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Sorry,didn't mean to sound argumentative. As slv58 mentions, it does seem as if the use of pic lines is more common in Canada
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I had to have a PICC line when my veins completely quit on me. I had to get it in the next day so I didn't mess up my infusion schedule. I only had 5 more to go. I wasn't given anything to flush my PICC daily. I just had to go to the doctor's office once a week and have the nurses flush it. And to keep it from dangling I used Ace bandages and taped it to me. Thankfully, it's winter so it was nice and disguised under sweaters and longsleeved shirts.
Showering was a pain in the booty. The nurses suggested using saran wrap but I couldn't imagine how I would do that successfully. I live alone so no one to help me get that on. I ended up buying a plastic covering used for leg cast: http://bit.ly/1BMHkqD. It did the job.
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hi slv58!
I had the same problem with reactions to adhesives too. Not so much the Tegaderm film though. 3m makes other products for sensitive skin too.
My MO was the same way, after the last chemo we gave the line a real good flush and the nurse said take a breath and it was out just like that. As much as I was happy the PICC line worked for me it was a great feeling to walk out of the clinic without it.
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No worries exbrnxgrl. :-). It's all good.
What sort-a toasts my buns a bit, is, that if a PICC line is a medically viable option it should be given as such, with the pros and cons of each option presented to the patient.
IMHO as I have no stats to back it up, just observation, my guess is the use of PICC vs port will vary between clinics and MOs.
My sister was dx'd with breast cancer shortly after me and we noticed quite a few differences in protocols and approaches. She lives in the U.S., different state.
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I agree DoggieBytes! However I have very uncooperative veins and I got use to how simple it was to get chemo and bloodwork...sometimes now I wish it was still in because I only have the one arm for blood draws and if the tech isn't the best- I have had to get it done through the vein on my hand (yuck!) there were lots of women I saw with ports at my hospital and I never did ask why I had a picc but was grateful! Maybe it had something to do with how fast tx began for me, I was dx on a mon. and picc line and first chemo was done on a wed.
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I was told I have "bad veins" too!
My response was, "well they've never give me problems before". LOL!
I hear ya though, not all phlebotomists are created equal. I too can only use one arm, so will have to be careful going forward...
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