Told by phone, Invasive Ductile Carcinoma-- little other info

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  • GrammyR
    GrammyR Member Posts: 702
    edited December 2014

    kayb- Thanks , I was aware of that

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    Thanks for posting, GrammyR! All the information I can get is important to me. I totally feel like I'm in a whirlwind that isn't stopping anytime soon, so the posts here are reassuring, informative, supportive and a great refuge!

    I paid for my outside second opinion, like $400 or more? Geesh. I'd hate being totally without insurance! KP said they'd set me up with inside 2nd Opinions, but never did (all doctors were suddenly booked up!).

    I don't think KP is bad, but they definitely will try to keep costs down if possible... and screenings can be expensive. They won't give them unless there's an obvious reason... but I'm still unhappy that the mammograms didn't catch my 3cm lump, so I'm a bit paranoid about screenings and catching things. So PET is only good for large lesions? Hmmm.

    -------

    GENERAL QUESTIONS---

    Ports... Now I'm a bit concerned. My surgeon isn't on board with anything, so she's not doing the Port. I was told "oh Radiology can put in a port!" thinking it was pretty simple and wouldn't need a surgeon. I hope they aren't going to just hand me over to a technician! I mean, it IS sort of surgical!

    My surgeon at first meeting told me that Ports can be done at the same time as an SNB. But since then I think told her that SNBs were only done with breast surgery. Really... I don't understand why things can't be easier!

    DO they put ports in the side where I have the lump or does it not matter?

    DO they try not to put it where a bra strap would be rubbing it? Or do you have to tell them yourself?

    IF my MO had never heard about doing TCHP before, should I be worried that he's not up on the proper doses for the chemo???

    ... geesh... my questions are endless. I don't want them to be... but there's just so much stuff going on!


  • sheila888
    sheila888 Member Posts: 25,634
    edited December 2014

    April...usually a Vascular Surgeon puts the port in

    I was awake.... it was done in Ambulatory Surgery

    Yes the DR the port on opposite side of the effected breast for radiation reasons

    Again mine was done 9 years ago....now they have different ports ????

    Good luck to you

    Pet scan is not a routine test for BC but cat scan is...


  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited December 2014

    april - ports are often put in by Interventional Radiology since they are threading the port into a vein in your chest and you are not having other surgery simultaneously.  This is common, not just at KP.  Your port is usually placed opposite from your mass, and I would advise having a bra on and showing them where you want your port.  Mine is subclavian just below my collarbone but near the hollow of my throat - higher than some folks have - so it is never in the way of a bra.  Dosing for chemo is done by standards and by BSA (body surface area - a mathematical calculation of height and weight)  - and this usually done by the pharmacist.  You will be weighed each time you receive chemo as your weight may change from treatment to treatment.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    sheila888 -- Thanks for your post! Oh, opposite side? That wouldn't be bad since I do use my R arm more... I was mostly wanting to know because someone over on the Port thread was saying they had to really mark themselves up to get the right side and not under bra strap and all that...

    I haven't really looked into it, but apparently there are Power Ports or something like that. I'm really hoping to get a good, useful one. I mentioned it to my MO (but he wasn't thnking I needed a Port to begin with). I asked when I made the radiology appt to get the port put in... They had to call someone to ask if there were such things as power ports! Geesh. I'm having to make sure of every little thing, it seems. But... deep breath... relax a bit... I'm trying to get through this all.

    PET isn't common, but since surgeon is nixing the SNB before chemo, the possible lymph node involvement is worrying me.

  • sheila888
    sheila888 Member Posts: 25,634
    edited December 2014

    Port is not gonna effect your arm movements at all...at some point you forget that it's even there

    Good night

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    General surgeons as well as interventional radiologists routinely insert ports. My understanding is that most ports these days are power ports (power injectable). You should definitely discuss the location so that you are comfortable, physically and visually with it. Mine is not visible at all unless I wear spaghetti straps.

    GrammyR, funny story about numbing ... I hate any kind of needle stick (those Huber needles for the port are scary!). Even though I knew my infusion center used a numbing spray, I also slathered EMLA on my port prior to my first infusion. When the nurses saw what I'd done (because of the plastic wrap over the EMLA), they cracked up laughing at my overkill on numbing! The next time, I just used the spray (15 seconds and I'm good).

    April,

    Breast cancer and it's tx is a scary, new and often confusing experience. Try not to fret so much about every little thing or you will make yourself crazy. Don't overthink or second guess everything or you'll make yourself even crazier. Take care.

  • Kicks
    Kicks Member Posts: 4,131
    edited December 2014
    1. Port implant is not "sort of surgical" - it is surgical.

    My Bard Power Port (it's purple) was implanted the day before I started neoadjuvant chemo by my Surgeon. Ports are usually put in on the non-surgery side. According to my Surgeon, it is 'harder' for the surgeon to put a port in if you are thinner.

    My port was implanted in OR at the local hospital under a general. I woke up still in the OR in time to see Surgeon walking out the door. He went up and told Hubby I'd be ready to go home in an hour or 2 so Hubby went to go do barn chores. Well I was taken straight to Discharge - not Recovery so they called him and caught him while still in the parking lot to come get me and to the barn we went.

    I have had no problems with bra straps or seatbelts bothering my port (it's been in for 5+ yes).

    Check with your Facility to see if they have numbing spray - mine did. If they don't ask for a 'script for EMLA cream (or generic) to put on approx 1/2 - 3/4 hr before infusion. It HURTS to access a port without some numbing - had it done without once - not nice. (Put a small sqiare of Saran Wrap over the area to keep EMLA off your clothes and it helps it to work better.)

    With a power port, it can be used for IV associated with surgeries. It can be used for blood draws. Mine has been used twice with surgeries but has only been used once for a blood draw. That time I already was scheduled for a port flush so the RN that does the flushes just did the blood draw at the same time. I have great veins so it's easier to just go ahead and use them than to have to have an RN do the draw and flush. (It takes an RN, NP, PA or MD to access a port - not a blood tech.)


  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    "My Bard Power Port (it's purple)"

    Mine too, a nice purple port that's sort of triangular.

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    April,

    Also wanted to add that mammograms are notoriously bad screening tools. There are legions of us who were dx'ed within a relatively short time of a clean mammo. I had a clean mammo 13 months before my 4 cm tumor was found.

  • Kicks
    Kicks Member Posts: 4,131
    edited December 2014

    Your ROM will not be limited by port implanf. It will be tender for a short while as will be any cut or incision. i was told no carrying anything heavy for 2 weeks so I got out of 2 weeks of barn chores (mucking, carrying water/hay bales) but I was riding/training/teaching the second day after.

    Remember - there is no 'One Size Cits All'! We are all unique with our own DX. What is correct for one is not necessarily for another. Just as we do not have the same reactions/responses. I had a full body MRI and CT, bone scan, a PET (which showed a hot area along jaw so biopsied the area - nothing g there) and an EKG all within the 17 days between DX and sfarting neoadjuvant A/C. I did not have an SNB as the enlarged node was biopsied the first day.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    SpecialK, sheila888, exbrnxgirl, Kicks, kayb -- Thanks so much for your responses! I'm trying to read up all this stuff, but there is a LOT to know... and I guess it's a bit of a steep learning curve for me.

    Great to know that radiologists can put in ports! Also nice to hear more details about them. I was sort of second-guessing because my MO said I didn't need a port! I'm only getting it because the 2nd Opinion recommended it--and he also brought a nurse or tech in to look at my veins and say that I probably should get one (and of course, all you here who recommend the port, but my MO only goes by another oncologist, which makes some sense).

    And really, the surgeon was the person who said a Port might be put in at the same time as an SNB... But then said no. So all the yes/no stuff from the doctors are contributing to my crazy.

    Thank you all for, again, reassuring me. I'd be a total mess without you all.

    Numbing spray and creams sound fantastic!!! (is there a reason this stuff isn't used more? I was thinking of the kids screaming as if they were dying when they had to have shots or blood drawn, the poor things! --although I suspect most of that is just fear and not pain...)

    So... Port in opposite breast because it might get in the way of surgery or visa-versa. That makes sense.

    It's very reassuring that the port won't be noticed after a while. Seemed like a scary big lump to me, in the photos! But then, I'm still a big baby about everything (never had any hospitalizations, no injuries, no broken bones, no bad illnesses before--so this is all VERY different!). My poor sister has had a bunch of stuff happen... so she's much more familiar with what I'm having to face, in general. I'm sure she thinks I'm going to have a tough time because of my total lack of previous experience!

    I'm feeling MUCH better about everything.

    I was worried about getting a ride to the Port procedure... My sister is coming for the first Chemo (she's had friends who went through chemo, so she's used to THAT, too). But I didn't want her to be down here quite so much. The BC coordinator said I could take a taxi! That is weird because they wouldn't let me do that when I had a colonoscopy. I had to call a special medical transportation service then. Taxi is cheaper, and it's not like I need anything special. So that problem seems to be solved, too.

    I finally had some time at home so I put up some Christmas lights out front. That was nice to be able to do something sort of normal!

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited December 2014

    April...contact your local America Cancer Society chapter. Sometimes there are volunteers who can help you get to and from your active treatment center.

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    April,

    Kids do get numbing sprays or EMLA more often than adults! Not for shots or blood draws, which are too fast to make it worthwhile and create anxiety more than pain, but for IV's. I first learned of EMLA from a pediatric nurse. EMLA takes about 45 to an hour to work, so advance planning is necessary, but the numbing spray works just fine.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    Oh, good to know kids get it. And it makes sense that it's not good for just injections or blood-drawing... although wouldn't it be good to have something safe that works immediately for the kids that need that? Traumatic experiences in childhood make people fear needles all their lives!

    --Should I get MO to prescribe the numbing stuff before first Chemo?

    --I had a weird thing happen last night... I was washing up before bed and suddenly got really hot--sweat dripping, and nauseous, slightly dizzy... but didn't barf or fall. It went away after 10 or 15 minutes or so... Never felt like that before. Was it because of the stuff put in me for the MUGU on Wednesday? Or just some weird reaction to stress??? --I can understand it AFTER chemo, but before??? geesh!


    -------------

    Second Opinion oncologist says PET before Chemo is IMPERATIVE. I wish I'd known when I'd last talked to my MO on Wednesday. Had to call MO in panic today. He says OK, but radiology is not answering and might have no time to schedule a PET before chemo on Wednesday. Might have to Pay out of pocket... which would make KP happier, I'm sure! GAH!!!

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    April,

    Just ask for the spray. I have them spray it on for 15 seconds. It feels a bit like a cold "burn" , though not painful, when it's numb enough. After that I don't feel a thing and it takes less than 10 seconds for them to access the port. You can try EMLA, but I think it's overkill since the spray works so well.

    I have never paid a cent for a PET scan. Not sure why your second opinion mo thinks it's imperative, but as you may have seen in your reading, it is not standard unless one suspects mets and lots of women do not get them pre-tx. Yes, they are enormously expensive and expose you to radiation. However, if you would feel more comfortable having and have the resources to self pay, perhaps you should.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    The Chemo people will have the spray? Or do I have to get it and do it myself?

    THanks, exbrnxgirl!


    ... I swear, I'm beginning to feel stupid lump aching and I could barely feel the thing by touch (with no pain) just a month ago! crap...

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    The infusion center has the spray. Usually it's offered, but if your nurse forgets just ask. They've got lots of it! Also, if you know that you are sensitive to adhesives, ask for gauze and paper tape. They use it to cover the port site during the infusion and after they de-access the port. I did not know this would bother my skin, but I had a big red rash in the exact shape of the occlusive dressing after my first infusion. Not really a big deal, but if you know your skin is sensitive, you canavoid it with paper tape and gauze.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    I don't think I'm allergic to adhesives... I guess I'll just have to find out!

    Thanks for the spray info, exbrnxgrl!

  • Kicks
    Kicks Member Posts: 4,131
    edited December 2014

    Check with Facility if they have the numbing spray. I did all my infusion accesses wiith the spray. It was just a VERY slight prick. I did have an access once with no numbing of any kind and it HURT big time. Now I use generic EMLA before each flush.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    Kicks-- Thanks for the tips. Anything to make things less painful seems like a good thing to me!

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    Kaiser does have the spray. EMLA is a bit expensive. I have excellent prescription coverage but it was still $45.00. I would try the spray before spending the money, I never feel a thing.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    exbrnxgrl -- Thanks for the info. I'll see if they spray me and how that goes! If I need more, I might spring for the cream stuff. (Can both be applied or is that a no-no?)

    ---------------

    ... Does anyone remember the Pre-port instructions??? Person tried to call with that info, but got cut off, and KP doesn't let you reconnect directly... had to go through a ton of automated stuff and I'm not even sure who called and which department. I'm guessing Radiology. But now it's after hours...! And it's the weekend! and Port goes in early Monday morning!

    I was told when I made the appt. to check in 45 min. early, to not eat after midnight of the night before. and maybe take some meds if necessary with only sips of water.

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 12,424
    edited December 2014

    April,

    Somewhere on one of the threads, I posted the story of my first infusion where I used EMLA and the spray. I had the nurses cracking up over the overkill. But yes, you can use both. I never did use both again :)

    I think not eating after midnight is the biggie. The sips of water to take meds probably only apply to needed prescription meds. You could probably get an answer if you called interventional radiology or email through the patient portal.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    Thanks.

    I have no idea how to email anyone except for the doctors I've been assigned. I guess I'll try calling around tomorrow to find out. I'm having the worst time communicating, when I need it. But thanks for the suggestion! I appreciate it.

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited December 2014

    I have an extremely small port - so small it is not visible under my skin - it is literally about the size of a pea.  The oncology nurses always grimace when they see it - so I use both EMLA and freezing spray.  Being totally numb allows the person accessing the port to be a bit more relaxed and less afraid of hurting me.

    april - usually for surgical procedures they want nothing by mouth after midnight (NPO) except for necessary meds with a sip of water, and the remainder of the instructions usually involve showering the morning of the procedure with anti-bacterial soap, leaving jewelry and valuables at home, bringing ID and insurance cards with you, and having a ride home.  Interventional radiology in most med centers is usually staffed if you can figure out how to call them directly.

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    Thanks, SpecialK -- I'll try and contact someone tomorrow (Saturday), just to make sure I got the complete instructions. I hadn't heard about the antibacterial soap and shower. But that doesn't seem hard to do!

    So, the tiny ports make it harder for them? I was thinking that I'd want a small port if at all possible... but maybe not? Or just use the EMLA and spray and nevermind?

    Thanks!

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited December 2014

    I love my small port!  They always get it and have never hurt me.  I have had it for four years and it has been accessed at least 50 times, never a problem - oncology nurses access ports all day long, they are very good at it.  Don't worry!

  • april25
    april25 Member Posts: 772
    edited December 2014

    Thanks, SpecialK. I'm curious to see what kind of port I get...

    -----

    PET scan problems. OK... so my 2nd Opinion oncologist says imperative to get PET before Chemo. MO says OK. But radiology people say they don't do PET after a Port. Needs to be a week later because they will get a false positive (from something! not sure!). 2nd Opinion doc has scheduled me for a PET after Port is put in, which is out of pocket (over a thousand $). I'm not clear if he knows this is one day after Port and one day before Chemo...! I thought he knew! My schedule was explained to him.. but who knows?

    I don't want to spend that kind of money and take a test like that if it's not going to work well! Anyone know anything about PETs? Would a port really mess with the results? Should I delay port and chemo to iron this all out???

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited December 2014

    Several things - are you planning to stay at KP, or go with the other oncologist? The reason for not doing a PET right after a procedure is that you may have uptake in the area of your procedure that shows as a false positive. Anywhere you have a surgical site, or other situation that causes excessive uptake of the injected material - for example I have degenerated disks and I always have uptake there - will skew the PET results. Also, PET results, while nice to have are not really imperative. If those results would change your treatment plan - say if you were not already planning to have chemo - then they would be more important, but since your treatment is essentially the same regardless, I'm not sure how critical the PET is to do prior. Your infusions will be 21 days apart - chemo might start to have an effect but I don't know that something big enough to be seen on a PET would be gone. If you have the PET soon I would think it would be ok. Don't think I would pay out of pocket for one if I could have it in a reasonable amount of time. As always, this is just my opinion.

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