Estrogen replacement....am I crazy?
Comments
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I went through menopause a number of years ago before my dx and just toughed it out without any estrogen replacement - I was a mess for almost two years but exercised my butt off - ate very cleanly and kept myself occupied to the nth degree - gardening, volunteering, babysitting - anything! Anyway I was 10 years older than you are now at the time so I am sure it is tough for you because of the chemo throwing you into instant menopause. Did you talk to your PCP and see if anti-anxiety drugs, or anti-depressants or both might be of help? I would think that estrogen replacement is the last thing you should do - it could throw you into Stage IV and that's, to my thinking, not a place you want to be (I am Stage IV) - you don't say if you're on an AI - they can mess with your sleep, emotions and everything else - there are three very effective ones so you could switch to another one - hope this helps. Sending hugs, S.
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Thanks so much for responding. I've been on prob 8 or so ssri....all the usual. Makes me worse. I'm on tamoxifen for 1.5 years now. I def don't want to have cancer return but I don't know what to do. I did lupron/femara at diagnoses & as soon as hot flashes hit I had instant depression. No problems in my life before that. My onc is brilliant but at her limits with me. I don't blame her
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Amoc1973,
You are not insane. Dealing with bc is awful. Good advice from sandy above. Your bc was ER positive and in my opinion adding estrogen replacement to your body is unwise and dangerous. Can you switch to an AI from tamoxifen?
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have you stopped the lupron? It is an option to stop and just stay on tamox. It is slightly less effective than the AI but better than adding estrogen. You might even get your period back or at least fel better
Early meno SUCKS
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To give you a direct answer YES. You had a grade 3 ER/PR Cancer, stage 2a. My first primary was 2b tripleneg. My second and third primaries were both ER/PR + I lasted 15 months on tamoxifen after the second primary. I had bilat mast with DIEP for third primary, didn't get clear margins and Onc refused me further tx. Guess what happened. Primary #3 recurred to chest wall, mets to pectoral and still no clear margins. I've been living with menopause for 14+ years, suffering through it and I still ended up stage 4 I was 42 when it all began and am in year 19 now.
You might get lucky and have nothing happen if you take estrogen. Or you might not be lucky. I'm really sorry you're suffering. I live in a constant state of "drenched" so believe me I do understand the misery.
It's a personal decision that you have to make, and I respect whatever you decide, but please consider this ... 30% of Breast cancer patients go on to stage 4 during the course of their disease, around 6% are initially diagnosed stage 4. These are frightening statistics for all of us. Stage 4 is an entirely different world compared to the lower stages and not one of us wants to see anyone else joing the club that sux the most. Please think very carefully. For me as a stage 4suffering through the side effects is well worth staying alive.
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I'm just on tamoxifen. Not sure the drug is the culprit or the menopause from chemo. I'm going to speak to my onc. There are other drugs I may try. I've done AI at diagnoses. It was just as bad plus pain added in. I'm not grade 3 stage 2...I'm stage 3 grade 2 ( not that thats better). I don't get how making my estrogen level normal is any diff than a woman like me w exact diagnoses who is NOT in chemo pause. I totally understand how estrogen makes ER+ stimulated. Not sure I can handle the depression much longer. Anyone ever hear of using testosterone? I've run across some articles. Onc said she was fine with that but doubted it would help. Maybe I should try it? I am just miserable. I would never consider hormones if I wasn't miserable. I could handle just hotflashes....it's ALL of the symptoms together.
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hello,
have you tried Effexor? I take 1 @ 75 mg three times a day. it helps me a lot with the hot flashes, and the depression
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Thanks living. Yup. Been there done that. It mad me worse. I react weird to antideppresaants.
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What about a prescription sleeping pill? Once I was able to get some good quality sleep (Ambien) on a regular basis, I was able to handle the rest of it better.
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How about gabapentin? I started taking it for neuropathy during chemo but I'm still on it, and I believe it has helped prevent hot flashes.
Also...(don't kick me)...it sounds like you're clinically depressed and a consultation with a psychiatrist who has experience managing antidepressant meds, as well as cognitive behavioral therapy, would be useful. Don't let this disease define you.
I can't speak for you or anyone else, but the thought of taking estrogen and possibly waking up and feeding whatever slumbering cancer cells might be lurking somewhere is chilling.
I'm so sorry you're slogging through this.
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Ruthbru, me too. I blame my cancer on my insomnia!
I was in early menopause and COULD. NOT. SLEEP. I would go whole nights lying awake and felt terrible most of the time. I went to my primary care physician and saw a physician's assistant who acted like I wanted a prescription for heroin. No help there. I went to my gyno who said, let's try some estrogen; you'll sleep. Never mind that I have a family history packed with cancer, I stuck that little estrogen disc on my abdomen for 18 months, and was then diagnosed with a roaring estrogen-eating breast cancer.
It would have been safer, healthier, and cheaper to just get some damn ambien from my primary care doc. And I wound up on ambien anyway, worrying about breast cancer!
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You know I never had estrogen being I was only 38 at diagnoses so no need. I've always slept like a baby. My mom has been on estrogen over 30 years. My sister like 10 years (I'm the baby of the family). Guess who gets the breast cancer outa those 3......this guy. Really??Wtf?? But estrogen would be super risky. We will exhaust all other poss routes prior to that. I think I'm switching to an AI. My onc said menopause (not the tamoxifen) can def trigger depression ESP with a history. I was depressed as a teen but that was short lived. Also had a bit of post partum blues....short short lived. I think I'm just a highly estrogen kinda chick.... Now it's gone. It sucks big fat donkey dorks. The prob is...drinking in excess & doing no excercise increases risk recurrence too. Atleast my depression makes me skinny.....that's the only upside.
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hey you all!!!!!!!!!!!!, my Gyn gave me sample called. BRISDELLE, it is for hot flashes and other menopause symptoms, it has NO ESTROGEN OR HORMONES, ask you drs about it,,, I had very severe meno going cold turkey once I was diagnosed. I was on HRT for 14yrs with no problems, until BC.i decided not to use its as I had enough side effects going. on,worth a shot to whomever is thinking of taking Estrogen again
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Taking Ambien saved me from going crazy; if I would have had a gun in the house, I would have blasted those stupid relaxation/mediation CDs into a million pieces!!!!!! And I was almost happy to have surgery so that I could be unconscious for awhile. Not sleeping totally messes you up.....
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Jeannie, save your money and get generic paxil if Brisdelle works for you. It's one of those "rebranded" old drugs that they no longer have a patent for, so they rename it & say it is for a different use. It's just paroxetene. When the call it Brisdelle they can charge you $100 bucks instead of you getting the $4 generic.
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Exactly what Melissa said! They get away with it by marketing Brisdelle as 7.5 mg tabs,, like it is a new drug,,, but it is just the same med as Paxil. Get generic paroxetine 10 mg,,, will save you a lot of money.
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Gabapentin (generic Neurontin) is also a great drug. It helps neuropathy and it can help hot flashes too. It is next on my list to try if the Prozac doesn't work.
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One more thought Jeannie-Paroxetene is one of the antidepressants that they do NOT recommend you take if you are taking tamoxifen. It interferes with the action of tamoxifen.
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I've taken all those...none fixes crazy. And none helped hotflashes either...ate least for me. I'm telling u, I've done it alllllll. Ambien is no match to my hotflashes. They still wake me up all night. I think I could deal w that. But the mood is a whole new level of sh*t. I want "me" back. Who is this crazy biotch? I was always 'dance on the bar crazy' but never 'stare into space' crazy.
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Amoc, I am thinking like so many above, that estrogen replacement is not an option. for you. I seriously doubt you could get a doctor to prescribe it for you with your diagnosis.They would be medically negligent. I know your symptoms very well, I too traveled this road you are traveling, and there will be good days ahead I promise. One day you will wake up and say, "I feel better", that will be followed by another and another. I hope that day is soon. ((hugs))
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I didn't see some previous posts. I see a psychiatrist.....I've done CBT. Going in 2 years now. Before menopause I was fine. Even w diagnoses. There is a very real link w estrogen & mental problems. I'm one of the lucky ones
yay -
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Ruth - loved your remark about the CDs! I had horrible insomnia for years before DX - PCP insisted on a natural approach; melatonin, passion flower, valerian, none of which worked. After follow up mammo/US, when it was pretty clear it was malignant, she reiterated all of that (I hadn't slept or eaten for 3 days at that point) and finally, grudgingly, prescribed 5 tablets of Ativan! The radiologist who did my biopsies was outraged that I'd not taken anything before hand and insisted I have a supply - bless his heart. The b....tch is no longer my PCP - and that's not a word I use lightly.
There's NO way I'd add estrogen to my body in the OP's situation. It sounds like a great way to pretty much guarantee a recurrence.
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Amoc, I know exactly what you are going through. I was slammed into menopause by chemo when I was in my mid 40's. The hot flashes were absolutely BRUTAL and went on 24/7 for several years. I would lay in bed at night and become drenched in sweat. Sleep was very difficult. I took one Ativan every night just to try and quiet my mind. After two years my doc discontinued the Ativan. I suffered with depression and total lack of appetite. Because I have pretty bad nerve pain in my "bad" side my doc rxed Gabapentin at the highest dose possible. It barely touches the pain. However, I will tell you the hot flashes are completely gone now. I'm ten years out and I don't really remember when they stopped completely. My onc was dead set against ANY form of estrogen. In fact, he told me to be aware of any phytoestrogens that could mimic the real thing. That is how freaked out he was about me getting any estrogen.
For me personally, I would never introduce into my body something that feeds the type of cancer I had. No way.
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Have you thought about trying a different Al instead of Femara? Each Al has a little different make up, so a different one might work better for you than it did. Sounds like it would surely be worth a try!!! Are you making yourself exercise, even though you don't feel like it? If not, try to get back into some sort of a routine as exercise might help with both the physical and emotional sides of things.
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No!! you are not crazy!!! I was diagnosed second primary breast cancer in Jan 2014. Doc wants me to go on tamoxifen and I am terrified of all the side effects and toxicity. Saw her today and she gave me the hard sell and is making me feel like I will die tomorrow if I dont take it! In the meanwhile I have been searching natural alternatives to tamoxifen and Estriol (E2) is being used as a treatment by alternative doctors. your MO will never be on board with this but the theory is that the estridiol is the one that causes BC. If the body has alot of the good estrogen vs the bad, the good estrogen (estriol) will occupy the estrogen receptors similar to tamox without all of the horrible side effects. I have an integrative Doctor that is willing to treat me with this but of course I have my MO in the back of my mind telling me how amazing tamox is. Its all so confusing. All I know is that we deserve to be happy while we are living!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My goodness!!! We dont have to suffer every day just because we had breast cancer!.. There are women on this forum who are on tamox and have a recurrence. there are no guarantees with anything. I for one have had enough toxic substances for now. And another gripe is how they want to ive you another pill if you have a problem or side effect!! Ok yes lets add more side effects to the mix! How is that helping??
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Yes, Tamoxifen is a scary thing to have to take but keep in mind that MOST women don't have severe side effects. I've been on it for 2 years and my worst issue was muscle/joint pain which I've reduced about 75% with ginger, turmeric and magnesium. I've had mild warm flushes at night a few times, deal with periodic nausea, dizziness, burping and bloating, but mostly feel really good. I have to have a hysterectomy in Jan due to AI after surgery but figure I do pretty well on Tamoxifen so why rock the boat? And I can tell you I was PETRIFIED to take this stuff!! But typically for me, my mind made it worse than it was. So I say try it and see how it goes before writing it off completely.
And one more thing....I have to go off for 2 weeks prior to surgery and I've heard that sometimes taking a break can cause it to be a bit milder when resuming. I'll let you know if that's the case.
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Vixen, I am so sorry you are dealing with this again. Because it is relevant to my own situation, I gotta ask, how they did not catch the sexond cancer sooner, given the number of check-ups we all go through
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I realize this thread is three weeks old now, but I'm kind of with She on this one. As someone who has always been very alternative minded (never used meds prior to bc dx) and followed my ND's advice on hormone balancing post-tx, up to but not including using an estrogen supplement (I used Testosterone and DHEA)... I think the time to balance your hormones is PRIOR to a bc dx, which sadly few of us even know about at that point. After those bc cells exist and know how to reproduce, I think it's really a crap shoot, and very easy to trigger their proliferation in spite of the thoughtful advice of the best holistic practioners in the world -- just b'cuz they are so mutant and adaptive. I would not give them any known "fuel."
Just the opinion of someone who did not do an A/I due to a serious adverse reaction to one of them, and ended up with bone mets, which might have happened anyway, or might have been destined because of the delay in finding and treating some of my bc (detailed on my bio page), or any number of reasons. But there's absolutely no way I would tell a woman who has had bc to take estrogen now. I realize suicidal thoughts are a very serious issue, but you also have no assurance that estrogen will fix that. I'd seek out as many docs (conventional, alternative, everything...) as you possibly can until you find answers other than estrogen. And I have a friend who takes 3x the recommended amount of Melatonin (12 mg) and swears by it. Deanna
(edited to fix a typo)
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