Atypical Intraductal Hyperplasia

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Helen_1991
Helen_1991 Member Posts: 4

Dear all,

I have been diagnosed with atypia following a core-needle biopsy.
For further investigation, my breast surgeon suggests that I do an open biopsy.
Will this procedure ensure that all of the areas with atypia around my one
microcalification cluster are removed, or will the open biopsy just take a
larger tissue sample to check for possible cancer? If the second choice is
true, what if the surgeon misses some areas that have potential to become
cancerous over the years. My wish is that the area where I have a microcalcifications
cluster with atypia cells be completely removed; I would not like any atypia remaining
in that one spot.

After having consultations with some breast surgeons, some
seem to rush me in getting the atypia removed while others recommend that I
have a mammogram follow-up every six months. For those who have gone through my
experience, I would like to know what y’all have decided for yourselves and
what your doctor suggested. I’ve heard about Dr. Roshni Rao and Dr. Mary Brian (if
anyone know anything about these doctors or any other breast surgeons in the Arlington-Dallas-Fort
Worth area, please share with me your thoughts).

Thank you so much,

Helen

Comments

  • Cherrie
    Cherrie Member Posts: 1,423
    edited April 2014

    I think it depends on your health history. Do you or your family have a history of hormonal cancers? I would guess they are taking a wider sample to remove as much of the atypia as possible. What does your gut tell you. I would have a hard time with the wait and see theory, but we are all different. Best wishes.

  • momoschki
    momoschki Member Posts: 682
    edited April 2014

    Helen,

    My understanding is that the excisional biopsy is done primarily to ensure that there is no cancer obscured by the atypia and that clean margins are not the objective, as they are for an actual cancer dx.  Removing the area of atypia is the standard of treatment and the atypia (whether ADH or ALH) is considered a marker for heightened risk of BC in the future (even if it is all surgically removed.). So, in the event you do have it removed, you will most likely be put on a 6 month high risk rotation of mammos, ultrasound, and MRI's.

    Anyway, this has been my experience after a dx of ADH 3 years ago.  You may also be offered some form of hormonal treatment as a preventive measure.  Personally, I would not have been comfortable not having the surgery.  

    Feel free to ask anymore questions you may have-- unfortunately, I feel like I have gained quite a but if knowledge on this topic over the past few years...

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited April 2014

    Momoschki is correct. they excise a wider area around where the needle biopsy was done to insure there is no DCIS or invasive cancer found in the area of concern. the goal is not to remove all the atypia. ADH is not detectable on imaging so there is no way to know if all atypical cells are removed.

    i'd recommend UT Southwestern. they are the only NCI designated cancer center in the area. I'll bet they have a high risk breast program.

  • Caedwyn
    Caedwyn Member Posts: 23
    edited April 2014

    I am going through this currently. My Dx from path report was usual ductile hyperplasia, and flat epithelial atypia. The nurse who gave me results said they would need to do an excision biopsy, and scheduled me for surgical consult. I am very confused because there's no agreement about surgery vs. not for flat atypia, but my understanding is that surgical biopsy is generally done for ADH. Was your Dx specifically atypical ductile hyperplasia? If so, I'm not sure why some surgeons are suggesting a 6-month follow-up. But I think if you have another kind of atypia, like flat epithelial, they could reasonably recommend putting off surgery. I don't know, and I'm planning to ask all these questions at my surgical consult (May 15).

  • Helen_1991
    Helen_1991 Member Posts: 4
    edited May 2014

    First and foremost, thank you to everyone who replied

    @Caedwyn, my Dx was indeed ADH. I will be scheduled for surgery in a couple of months to get this area removed.

    @MelissaDallas

    Have you had any surgeries at UT Southwestern before? I am from Dallas myself and I plan to have surgery at UT southwestern very soon. The thing I am mainly concerned about is having students, residents, and/ or fellows with the Dr in the operating room. I understand that UT Southwestern is a medical school and there will be times when the Dr will bring in their students, residents, and/or fellows for observation or maybe even allow them perform some surgical procedures themselves. However, I think that they should give patients a chance to decide if they allow this or not. I chose UT Southwestern because like you said, it is a designated NCI center and I know they always have up-to-date techniques and tools. Therefore, I put in a lot of trust and faith within the facility and the doctors there. I just don't like how they do not guarantee that they will not bring in a student to help with surgery, etc. We always make sure that we choose an accredited and board certified surgeon to perform our surgeries (but sometimes the outcome may not come out to expectations). In this sense, how could they possibly give students permission to work on our body if they are not board certified themselves. Please tell me what you think Melissa; I'd like to hear opinions from everyone else too.

    Thanks,

    Helen

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited May 2014

    I had all my surgeries at Parkland (which is staffed by UTSouthwestern) including a very major pelvic and abdominal surgery that was done by a Fellow at the medical school in the gyn onc dept. I am regularly seen by staff and residents. I have gotten excellent care. Both of my conditions are rare.

    Fellows have to pass the board specialization exam. University medical centers can't give you the choice. It defeats the whole purpose of it being a teaching institution, but the fact that UT is the only NCI designated cancer hospital means a lot. My breast surgery was done by a faculty member. I have no idea if a resident assisted or even performed much of the surgery. I haven't worried about it.

  • ballet12
    ballet12 Member Posts: 981
    edited May 2014

    Hi Helen, I'm sure that medical students don't assist in surgery.  At a teaching hospital, you could have a surgical resident or a fellow assisting.  I had two surgeries at Memorial Sloan Kettering, and the one thing that bothered me was that they were kind of secretive about who might be assisting, I guess because the patients in NYC are snobby about having other than the surgical attending doing the surgery, so they keep it hush hush (disclosure:  I work in a teaching hospital).  I never asked the surgeon, but when a fellow (they don't use residents there, only surgical oncology fellows) came to prep me prior to the surgery, I asked if she would be assisting, and she was vague about it.  It was clear to me that some fellow would be assisting, but maybe not her.  When I went into the surgical suite, both times, the attending was present, but no fellow.  I know that she remained there, because she (the surgeon) was able to describe the procedure and what she did (which was a bit challenging the first time), but I'm sure that there was assistance.  I don't even care that they have fellows assisting, after all, they've gotta learn somehow.  I just felt uneasy about the secrecy about it.  I could have asked the surgeon at some point later, but I just forgot about it.  After the second surgery done there, I had some kind of odd reaction in the eye a few hours later.  I called and tried to speak to the fellow on call, and not the surgeon, but they pulled the surgeon OUT OF the surgical suite to call me back.  So, that tells me she was very involved.  That I appreciated.

  • leaf
    leaf Member Posts: 8,188
    edited May 2014

    Decades ago, I thought that sometimes, when some medical students were circulating through the surgical rotation, they let them hold retractors to keep the abdominal muscles away from the surgical area. (They didn't let them anywhere near the surgical site.)  But maybe they were interns.   I thought they let a medical student push some IV digoxin, but they had an intern or resident right there showing him how.  It was so long ago, maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited May 2014

    I liked the Fellow who did my ovarian cancer surgery so much that when I went for my first follow up & found his fellowship was over & he had moved away to start a practice I googled him and mailed him a card telling him how grateful I was for his help and how his sense of humor had made me feel better in the hospital.

  • grammakathy
    grammakathy Member Posts: 407
    edited May 2014

    I had the atypia results from a stereotactic biopsy in 1999, and was advised to watch the area with mammograms.  In 2013, a mammagram caught the cancer in that spot.  "Luckily" the cancer after it was removed as 2.0 cm and had not spread to the sentinel lymph nodes.  I had no family history of cancer and no risk factors other than being female and age 63.  I'm glad that they are removing the cells now. 

  • ballet12
    ballet12 Member Posts: 981
    edited May 2014

    Hi Leaf, it's possible, even probable, that medical students play a minor role, as you stated, because they do have a surgical rotation among the rotations that they do go through.

    And Grammy, they don't necessarily "remove" all of the atypical cells.  They do the excisional/surgical biopsy to determine if there is any DCIS or invasive cancer present.  They were doing that back in 1999, so you could have had the excisional biopsy to follow the stereotactic biopsy, but they didn't recommend it for some reason. I had my first surgical excision in 1995 for atypia.  Your story does prove that atypical cells do put you at risk for cancer, although it's not always true that it appears in the same spot as the atypia. Glad you had no node involvement.


     

  • grammakathy
    grammakathy Member Posts: 407
    edited May 2014

    Thank you for the clarification.  My cancer was in the same spot where the clip was left to mark the biopsy.

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