I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Thanks Bren - we have Friday and Monday off - I need it - had a chest cold for 2 weeks now

True Pip - our onc agreed with me and thought that Steve's lung mets had been there at the start but it took 4 years to be big enough to show on the CT scan. The chemo he had could also have kept it small. But he had no symptoms at all.

Kam - the reason is because of the radiation versus the chance of mets - the radiation is too high to make it worth it. In Steve's case the chance of mets was much higher than my breast cancer, given it was in the rectum and lymph nodes. I do get the unspoken message, that there is not much chance they will save you even if it is found earlier, but in Steve's case - wow - 11 years out from the primary and going strong.

Well, in between yard work on this bright sunny day, I've been doing some googling about AIs and specifically, about some research done on "natural" AIs, including bioflavonoids, lignans, peptides etc.

It turns out, according to studies done via the NIH, that flavonoids (bio- or otherwise) do actually have some ability to inhibit aromatase, which we hormone+ gals are dealing with.  Rather than "try" to c/p a list of foods with those properties (which I can't do anyhow), I invite you to google "Foods containing flavonoids" and several sites will pop up.

I live in wine-making country, and a few years ago, one of our organic wineries, Southbrook, started selling a powdered product called Bioflavia.  It uses the leftover skins of grapes to make this wonderful, flavonoid-rich powder that can be used in smoothies or baked goods.  The winery's owner has a deal with all the other wineries in the area to supply him with the skins.  And the interesting thing is that the name of the product not only reflects the product itself, but Flavia was the name of the owner's mother (whom I knew many years ago!).  BTW, for Canadian gals, it can now be purchased in Loblaw's, Zehr's etc.

So, I faithfully add Bioflavia to my morning smoothie, and I eat loads of onion, garlic, berries etc. -- so maybe I really don't need Femara (fingers crossed!!!).

Glenna - just a sense it was probably more of a coincidence, horrible as it is, that the beast returned after you stopped femara, so hard to tell.  But know as we get older, the idea of staying on them "forever" is very complex.

Kam - never did find out if I was "luminal B" or not, was that on your pathology. 

Kam, yes, original diagnosis was in October of 1987, mets presented in May 2008.  And yes, the stage IV mets may have been a coincidence ... I'll never know.  I was on tamoxifen for a number of years and then femara.  I honestly don't know how long I was on them but it was a lot of years!  In 1987 I had lymph node involvement and participated in a clinical trial through Hopkins.  My prognosis was not good.  I did go through chemo induced menopause and had some pretty wild side effects .... Including some pretty manic tantrums.  Wish I had known it was menopause .... I was so ashamed of my tantrums I never mentioned any of it to my doctor!  I could have gotten some help!! Then in January of 1989 I presented with a totally separate lung cancer followed by a lobectomy.  And how many times did I hear "this is unusual."  LOL!   Glad to be here today and yes, every day is a gift.

OMG - Steve suggested we do a big chop in the garden this weekend as he wants to give his cousin back his trailer. WELL - guess who filled the trailer - he hasn't moved from his computer screen all weekend except for a bike ride on Friday. I want a trailer like that - it is so cool - has high sides on it.

I am really getting passed it - big trouble with knee pain - the one that needs replacing. I think my time is up - I've been avoiding it for 14 years.

Anyway, I actually had a swim when I finished - just got wet and got out but boy it feels good.

Glenna - yikes!  You have been thru so much - whew, so good to have you here!  I wouldn't think a bit of the "menopausal" rages - we all had'em! A friend used to call them PMZ "post menopausal Zest."  

Happy Easter all, hope the EB brings delicious chocolate ( thinking of bren with Malted Milk Eggs) ;-)

Glenna - your story is amazing.  When you say "coincidence" do you mean your second BC dx could have been from a new primary? Hard to believe Mets 21 years later.   I wonder, have you ever been brca tested?  Lung cancer too?

Sunny - Luminal B is a further subtyping of Luminal.  Luminal A is the better one to have.  Luminal B is ER+PR- Her2-.  Athena had Luminal B.  I think it also requires a high (>12%) Ki67, though I think that comes with the PR- territory, but I'm not sure.  I show PR+ on my sig because I was 5% IHC PR, though the lower half of the CI on the Oncotyping had me negative for PR.  The bugaboo for luminal B is that hormonals don't work as well (crap - but we still take them).  I saw a figure like only 20-30% of luminal B's benefit from those.  Chemo in the same territory, though I think that is true for all with chemo.  It was NOT on any of my path reports, but an interpretation from my doctor - ofcourse, I had to ask her to have her tell me about it.   She actually told me being triple positive is better than being luminal B when I saw her last - really, gads.

Back to counting calories - no chocolate bunnies for me.   fyi - switched my Emma kitty to grain-free food and she started losing weight because she ate less.  Forget all of those fancy Vet Rx reduced calorie kibble food.  I suppose it works that way for humans too - quality foods are much more satisfying, so one eats less?

I have to share a pic with all of you.  I snapped it while driving home from NC this afternoon.  I was laughing so hard at the horses with their heads out the window.  Just like over-grown dogs! The horses and trailer reminded me so much of our Enjoyful.  Hope she and Sampson are doing well.  I am impressed that I could actually take a picture with my phone and drive at the same time!

hugs,

Bren

PS .. Notice how green the trees are down in NC.  All the red bud trees and dogwoods are in full bloom as well as the wisteria.

Kam ... usually I'm with you on the smart phone.  I rarely even use it while driving.  It's too dangerous.  Just had to get that picture though.  With my sunglasses on, I can't even see my phone and I've told Tim that I won't answer it while I'm driving.  Better to be safe than taking silly pictures going down the road!

hugs,

Bren

I'm laughing with you Sunny.  About how many people are now covered ( of course, you must realize someone "doctored" the books" as well as the repeal.  It remains rather comical to me that these people walk around like they are in the know.....when they, especially in regard to repeal, are much more so in the know nothing much category.  They who don't know that they really DON'T know just end up looking and sounding so ridiculous.....big tip off when you can say so much of what they do with a straight face.  

Hope everyone had a great Easter.

(((/Glenna)))) just wow.  

Jackie

Sunny - Generally speaking, hormonals are always considered more effective than chemotherapy in ER+ BC.  Ki67 is sometimes done during biopsies - I got lucky, my lab did it.  It is included in the Oncotype as one of the 21 factors, but not explicitly stated on the Oncotype report.   Ki67 does constitute an important part of the score and Oncotype can be proxied, partially, using Ki67.  I can't remember the other 3 factors for the proxy, but there are three others.  What was your oncoscore Sunny??

Glenna - amazing, 21 years later.  What grade was your original tumor??  What chemos/treatments did you do from 2008 to 2012??   I found taxol gave me worse neuropathy than carboplatin, but hard to tell, since it was pile on at that point.  Definitely, carboplatin was easier to take than taxol, though my taxol was dose dense and carboplatin wasn't.

Wow .. Glenna ... that is a lot of treatments.  I hope the Carboplatin is kind to you while killing off those bastard cancer cells.  It's a shame your daughter, at her age, can't get some resolution.  I think my son went through a time when he wasn't very happy with me in his early 30's.  Thankfully, it seems he's let all that resentment go.  He just turned 38.  Sure hope your daughter comes to her senses and can find some understanding of what you were going through at the time.

hugs,

Bren