Starting Chemo, November 2013 Group
Comments
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Finally feel good enough to catch up with everyone. Sinus infection cleared up, SEs doing better. Just in time for taxotere #2 on Monday. Oh, well, a couple of good days is better than none. My fingernails aren't as sore, the toenails are pretty sore, but since I have really odd shaped, ingrown toenails I sort of hope they do fall out. My feet burn a bit but it's ok until I go to bed, then it's worse. I'm going to ask for something on Monday to just take at night.
tonilee, that's a beautiful cat. I miss having a cat, but I feel like I have all I can handle right now.
lisa, we have a 'special' dog too, but he too has a great memory. If I could just figure out how to get him to stop chasing reflections. At least he only chews on papers and books, not furniture. But I do have a couch that I hate, but Hubby likes it, if I could get him to chew on it I'd have to replace it, wouldn't I.
jab, kayaking always looks like fun, but since I don't swim very well it's not something I'll ever try. When you get too down you can always just go sit in one and pretend.
Pat, I love those earrings you have on in the 'after' picture. Earrings are my biggest weakness, and I've been wearing my biggest, guadeyest ones lately. And yeah for going out bare. I've taken my hats (still too cold to leave home without one) off in stores and restraurants.
Bec65, whine all you want. We understand.
Northwinds, how did your hubby's surgery go?
Ellen, so glad someone finally got out of the tunnel. Celebrate. I want to try to get my kids and us to go to the Smokey Mountains to celebrate when I finish.
Smrlvr, enjoy the sun even if you do have to cover up. And concentrate real hard about sending some of it to the rest of us. Maybe it'll work. Glad your daughter only has a UTI instead of stones. UTIs are much easier to deal with. My hubby actually lost a kidney because of stones. Hope the new meds help her fast.
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lol wallymama, you could try "accidentally spilling" something like a bit of bacon grease on that sofa you don't like and see if the dog finds it more interesting than books and papers after that.... Nothing like sabotaging your own furniture to make you feel free! Bahahaha!
Smrlvr: I've been prone to UTIs for my whole life -- have one right now, actually. I can't take Bactrim or any of the sulfa drugs; after years of taking them and doing fine I developed a really weird and bad reaction to them. So I've been given Cipro and Levaquin(sp?) for them, as well as Amoxicillin (my favorite and the one I'm on now,) and "back in the day" they used to always give me Ampicillin. For me personally ALL those drugs worked better than the Bactrim/Septra did even before I developed the reaction to sulfa drugs. Your daughter should be fine. Generally what they do is run a urinalysis that actually tells them which drugs will be effective against a given infection, so if they are giving her Cipro, it probably means the test showed the infection would respond to it. Cipro is STRONG and works fast, and in my personal experience, even a bad UTI starts responding to the right antibiotic really quickly so your daughter SHOULD feel better pretty quickly. So don't worry.
Once she's over it, make sure she knows all the ways we can use to help PREVENT UTIs. They really do work, so long as we're pretty vigilant.
jab, your story made me smile...but please remember that you ARE still a contributing member of society: You're a contributing member of THIS society here on this board, and here, you are invaluable. It's going to get better and you'll feel "normal" again. Seriously. A different normal, perhaps, but we are ALL a "different" normal from everyone else to begin with, so it doesn't matter if your "new" normal isn't exactly like your old one.
It's a weird thing but apparently I DID use my boobs for one thing: Metabolizing coffee properly. I used to consume embarrassing amounts of caffeine. Ever since my BMX if I drink even ONE cup of coffee I feel like I need to reach for an ativan, though diet coke and/or tea do not seem to have the same effect. I *have* to drink coffee, at least a little-- TMI, but for me it's either coffee or laxatives, I can take my choice. So yeah, apparently all my caffeine was going straight to my boobs. Who knew?
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Geez, you girls are just the best! This is such a place of comfort for me, whether it's about cancer or sofas! I actually had a moment of anxiety when the site was down yesterday.
Northwinds, how did your husband's surgery go?
Ellen, I think I will feel when I'm done like you're feeling now. The world seems to think we should have a big balloons and rah rah party like when a kid gets their braces off. For me -- and I'm being smacked upside the head with my control issues on many fronts these days -- it's that feeling that I won't be doing something to fight the cancer. Somehow I'm going to have to put a lot of drama into taking tamoxifen so that I can get what I need from it mentally.
Smrlvr, I hope you are enjoying your getaway. Your daughter sounds like she'll be okay, so I hope you can get back to your beach read!
Pat, I'm so excited for you that you're almost done. Is your port out?
Re chemo brain...I went to Costco this morning, as I have done a gazillion times, because I needed to return something. So, I walked in the exit side, as always, and stood at the end of the line of people. I had a feeling that something was different, but I looked around and figured it was that they had a lot more of services-provided stands (garage doors, heat/air, flooring, etc.), and I kept waiting in line. Now, I do live near two Costcos, but I've been in both of them a gazillion times over the years. I know where things are. Besides, it's Costco. My Costco is just like your Costco. So, I finally get to the front of the line and realize only then that no one in front of me had had carts or was carrying things to return. So, I meekly ask, "Is this where I can return these capris and toothpaste?" The guys gets a really amused look on his face and points to the counter closer to the door, where it's always been, that has the massive sign hanging above it that says "Merchandise Returns." To add insult to injury, there was no line for returns.
I met the LCSW at the cancer center yesterday, and she is going to email me a list of therapists and groups in my area. She was actually very good to talk to, but she is only the referral person. She did recommend a couple of books to me to help me with my issues with control, so I'm reading those as fast as I can.
My skin is starting to darken from radiation, but it isn't sore or peeling. I'm just so, so, so tired. I feel like myself all morning, but by lunch time I'm ready to curl up like a cat. Of course, getting everyone out the door and radiation take up the whole morning, so I feel like I have no life. Seven down, 18 to go.
Paulette, how are things?
I hope everyone has a calm weekend...xoxo.
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Bec -- Are you eating a really good breakfast?
I have had a couple of days when I felt really exhausted with added dizziness and difficulty focusing my eyes. I didn't feel unusually hungry, but discovered that I felt way better when I ate something. Most sites talk about losing your appetite during rads, but I have been hungry as a horse the last few weeks -- a sharp contract to my indifference to food during the last 6 months (stress, grief, chemo). For the first time in my life I can eat a lot and not gain weight. After losing about 20 pounds over the past year, I am now holding steady. But I need to watch it now that rads are over!
Ellen
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Hi Ladies,
Lisa, I too can't seem to drink coffee like I use too which is good thing. It is and has alway been my one vise that I couldnt really break. Anywho, I'm wondering if when the pathologist took a look inside my boob if he found coffee grounds.
smrvlr - Thanks for the reco re my water foobs. Now I'm scared to back to the drug store where I was going to buy them. so your on line idea is a good one!
Wallymama - Right now I am almost nutty enough to sit in my kayak in the garage in -10 deg weather. If this cold spell doesn't end soon, I'm going to put skates on the things and take them out on the water that way! I hope your feeling better soon - The taxotere really sucks (I have no other words to discribe it).
Bec65 - I liked your Costco story - Made me feel like I was not the only one.....
Amazon - Congrats on your second to last taxotere - One more to go!!!
Northewinds - Great photo - I'd LOVE to have a horse, but figured if I did I'd soon be living in a stable and have 5 horses. It sound like your area of the world is beautiful.
Ellen - Congrats on finishing rads - Keep us posted on ongoing SE's. I have read they can peak after you are done.
Tonalee, Audra, Paulette - how are you?
Yesterday I finally got to see my BS. He has been away, so it was a meeting long overdue. Based on the results of my latest CT scan, I will be having my other breast removed pre rads, as soon as the chemo is out of my body and my blood is looking better (looks like first week of may). So I won't be on the rad train with everyone else...Anyway. I also will be getting a core biopsy of the node in my axilla, which could mean, a sentinal node biopsy on the surgery, but again need to wait for a healthier state. The nodule in my lung will be staying for now and it is still to small to biopsy, so it is a wait and see thing. I left wondering about PET scans and if it would give me more complete info. We dont do them in NB for breast cancer, as it is not considered to be 'helpful', so I'll have to go to a private clinic (which are rare in Canada). Anyway, I am investigating now so will let you know what I find out.
Have a good weekend ladies
JAB
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I am currently in a black hole with Taxotere pains. Actually, I am heavily medicated not to have them, so right now I am very dopy, as Oxycodone is doing its trick on my joints which seem to have taken the most hit.
I wish this would have been my last, but yeah, I have one more chemo to go. This time round I am taking the L- glutamine together with B1, B2, B6 and B12 to see if it can ward off neuropathy.
Jab: I also have set up an app with my BS to see what to do with my other boob as the extent of DCIS was not picked up on the scans before my surgery, so I wonder what's really happening with the other side. In other words, my bad boob was such a mess that makes me question the other 'good' one. Anyway, in my left breast I still have at least one fibroadenoma that gives me a lot of discomfort, so I 'd like to see about taking that out. I will probably have to have a biopsy to determine what's going on with the Good, Bad and the Ugly.
I don't have the energy to respond to all, but you are in my thoughts and prayers.
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Amazon, yes the pains are big pains in the arse. So sorry you're experiencing them. Jab: good luck with the extra bumps in the road. Sucks big time. You will get out in that kayak, and when you do it will feel so sweet. Most of my taxotere issues are gone, except that the soles of my feet hurt when I walk, and I've still got occasional cramps.
I finally got my port out Wednesday! Yay. I thought it might be tough, since my H got the flu Monday (despite getting a shot) so I simply willed myself not to-- it worked! I've only got two more rads to go, then see the MO this coming Wednesday for my rx for the dreaded five years of drugs. I'm figuring that since it's so important, 50% reduction in recurrence, I'm going to tell the doctors that they're just going to have to prescribe me whatever drugs I need to tolerate the five years. Who cares if I grow dependent or not, I can deal with that after the five years are up. It's just too important that I stay hormone blocked.
I fell apart on Tuesday, but I've now got cream to treat the burns, I can take anti-inflammatories now that the port is out, my neck feels a zillion times better without that horrid thing in it: all is looking good. Thanks so much to my support team (all of you), I'm getting through this.
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I'm three weeks PFC and have developed swelling in my ankles and lower legs plus achy/heaviness in my leg muscles. Anyone else run into this?
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Pat- Yay on port removal and I LOVE your hair and wigs! Glad you are almost done with radiation and I admire your 'fierce' attitude! I have 2 wigs and only 1 wearable, the other I am wanting to get cut so I can wear it... HATE them both and the itching and tight feeling and fake hair feeling! I WANT my REAL hair!!!
My hand and foot thing is still alive and well...hands are better but feet still red hot and painful..I went to dermatologist the other day and she gave me a cream which helps them exfoliate and shed the blisters...not seeming to work yet...
Amazon- Hoping you feel WAY better asap! Hang in there sweetie!
Jab- I'm sorry you have to have another surgery, but the up side is then you won't have to worry about that side ever getting it! I am very glad I did the double mastectomy! VERY! I do sortof wish I would've gotten smaller foobs though...they are big and annoying at times...I have read the PET scans do NOT pick up anything under 1cm in size....everything on my CT scans were smaller than that! Which makes them even more upsetting as they cannot 'fully' say what they are...I have a small 3mm one on lung, and 6,8mm ones in liver that are 'unidentified' and have to get them re scanned in October. I worry about them off and on, trying to less and less...
Bec- what are the control issue books? I need them!
Quirky- I didn't have swelling...maybe you need to call DR?
Lisa- You sleep like my middle daughter! She sleeps anywhere/anytime and more than anyone Ive ever encountered. It sounds wonderful! I am just now sleeping better and would LOVE to sleep all morning but still have 15 year old at home that needs to get to cheer before school at 0645 every day...BARF! Wish I loved my MO like you do! I called mine to ask about using minoxodil for hair growth after dermatologist visit- she recommended it and said check with mo...anyhow his nurse called back to tell me she' didn't know and I could do what I want to'...I called back and said 'can you ask the DR and call me back?' that was Thursday and she never called me back! SHE is NOT nice or helpful at all..- do what I want to? really? wow.
Taking first trip since this BC thing tomorrow. Hoping no sneezing on plane or other illnesses! I was a germaphobe BEFORE this so now I am really leery of people and their illness they spread all over!
I am wearing a 'sleeve' thing as my foob and armpit have swelling / maybe lymphedema and I'm also wearing lovely compression socks to prevent blood clots in my body from the Tamoxifen! OH, and the wig. NICE...I feel like a freak with all of the 'gear' needed nowdays and I HATE it!
Wish me luck and no meltdowns or acting fierce and angry during my travels. My poor husband ..:)
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QuiryGirl, yes! No swelling, but my legs feel so achy each afternoon, as if I'd done a hard hike. I thought it was related to rads, but my last Taxol was 2/5...maybe it's related to that?
Pat, how's your port site? Mine looks yucky bruised and maybe like I'll have a seroma to deal with.
Amazon, hang in there. One more...
jab, I'm thinking of you. PET scans aren't SOP here either. We'll all still be here whether we're doing rads at the same time or not, no worries.
I'm sensing my nails on my index fingers are starting to separate from the nail bed to about halfway down...will this fun ever end? On the bright side, I have about 6 hairs on my head that have decided to grow. Truly, if I look in the mirror I can count 6 little baby hairs about 3/4" long randomly scattered around my head. There had better be more to come, because I cannot pull off the Charlie Brown look.
Wallymama, Tonilee, BigT16, Paulette, Northwinds, Smrlvr, Audra, Ellen, Lisa, EVERYONE -- I hope the week gets off to a good start for all of us.
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Jab - I did get a chuckle out of your "Quest for water boobs". But when it happened I bet you were on the verge of a breakdown. I believe that it is very positive that you are able to look back at it from a different angle and it brings on a different emotion now.
Wally - good luck with your taxotere today!
Amazon - You are so close to being done, you can do it!
Quirky - so sad to hear about your swollen ankles. And it's weird how it developed so long after treatment.
Pat - your "fierce" state must be contagious. I have been going to gym topless too, I don't give a crap what people think. I get so itchy and sweaty on the elliptical.
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Day 7 after 5/6 chemo. Yesterday and today I developed some bleeding when I had my BM. Well, it was more like spotting, but nevertheless there was fresh blood. Did anyone else experienced this after Taxotere?
My bone pain is slowly subsiding, but now I have the same itchy rash to deal with I had last time.
Jab, pat, Inks, bec, aurda: Thank you so much for your encouraging words. I really appreciate that!
Inks/ pat: You go girls with your fierce attitude!
Pat: Yay, on your port removal! Sorry to hear you still have to deal with the fallout pains after chemo.
Aurda: Good luck on your trip.
Bec: How long ago did you finish chemo? I hope your nail issue will get better soon. I too have some stubborn hair sticking out of my scalp that are hard as wire that never fell out. I am getting some fine fuzz on my head as well. Is this normal with Taxotere?
Quirky: The swelling that I got was mostly on day 2-5 after the infusion.
Ellen: I happy for you that you are done! Keep us posted how things are with you.
Smrlvr: How's your trip going? How's your daughter?
Northwinds: How's your hubby?
Phebe: I'm glad to hear that you are getting the Neulasta shot to help you with your blood count.
Wally, jab, lisa, phebe, northwinds: Hang in there! Wishing you minimal SE with your chemo!
Paulette, tonilee, bigt: How are you doing? Haven't heard from you for a while.
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Taxotere #2 almost finished. Really concerned about SEs and afraid they may comulative.
Amazon, are you sure the blood isn't from a hemmiroid. If it's fresh, bright red blood that's probably what it is and they don't have to be especially sore to hurt.
Some foot and toe pain left, the fingernails are holding their own. Minor joint pains gone. Taste buds not too bad. I'm sure it'll all change by tomorrow though.
Hope everyone is doing better,and has a great week,
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Hi all,
Inks, did you really mean your going to the gym topless or hatless? I mean, more power to you if your showing the world you boobs...(I had to laugh, sorry...). My" Quest for Water Boobs" was shared on the weekend and it get funnier each time I tell it, but you are right, I think I had lost it when it happened. Anyway, gotta have a sense of humor.
Regarding PET scans, heres the thing. Both my BS and my Onc are saying the same thing to me and are threrefore discouraging it. If they find 'something' on a PET sscan, it will be the tip of an iceburg, and unless I have symptomology, it will not change thier current actions. So the advantage/disadvantage of getting a PET with stage 3 cancer is I will then know I am stage 4. The question then becomes - Do I want to know I'm stage 4?
I will ask the group this one - Do you think you would live a better life if you knew or didnt know you were metastatic? I'm still thinking about this one - Being a type A control freak I want to know, but on the other hand I am not sure it would be 'good' for my psycologically - meaning, how would I internalize the info and how would it affect my life?
I really would appreciate what you think on this one - You ladies know what this has been like psycologically so far, so experts you are!!
JAB
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Jab, I am so sorry you are going through this. Good luck with your surgery. We will be here for you. The questions you ask are the same I ask myself all the time. Would it be better to know than to keep worrying that it will happen? I really need help in dealing with the not knowing and not letting it interfere with living. Because I am a control freak type A personality. On the other hand, if you know you can make a plan. I think it's a bit unfair that the doctors don't want to look into anything unless you have symptoms. To me the earlier they get on it the better. But to answer your question, I would worry either way. So, I guess it's best to live and let live.
Wally, good,luck today on your chemo.
Northwinds, how is your husband?
Amazon, I have had blood in my stools intermittently through all chemo. It was bright red and I think brought on by hemroids or fissures. It stopped when my stools were softer so I eat a lot of prunes. Coffee helps too.
Quirky, I don't have leg swelling, but my legs do feel really heavy. Last night I laid on the couch after dinner and my whole body felt so,heavy I couldn't even move.
Audra, it's good to hear from you.
Bec, I have some hair that is growing from where it left off, and the rest is starting to some in thin and slow.
It was nice being in Florida; it felt so,good to be warm and feel the sun on my face. However, I felt so high maintenance having to,deal,with wigs, fake eye brows and the like. I hate this. DD called on Wednesday from the ER once again with her UTI. After hours of drama in the ER they determined that she is one of a few people who,don't respond to Bactrim. They put her on cipro and now she is better. Finally. While in Florida I noticed I developed cording on my bad arm and it was so painful. I stretched and stretched and popped a chord which made it better. Then I noticed a swollen lymph node by my elbow. It is really painful there too. And swollen. So I called to make an appointment with my PT but I need a new script which I was hoping to get today from my RO when I went for sim today. They called me at 730 this morning to move my appointment to Wednesday. I know it should not be a big deal but I was mentally ready for the scariness of today. Plus I wanted to show the RO my swollen node and make sure it is not a scary swollen node. So now more anxiety. Tomorrow I get my port removed. It is an inpatient procedure and I will be out for it. Scary day tomorrow too. I hate that there's always something to worry about. Good thing I still have my Ativan.
I hope all of you have a great week and feel as good as,possible. I am thinking of,all of you.
Tonilee and Paulette, where are you?
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Thought I'd take some time to post before the taxotere take me out. Two down, two to go. Woo-hoo!!
Lisa, Never thought of sabotaging the ugly sofa. But with three dogs on it all the time a new one wouldn't look new for long, so I guess I'll just suffer with the old one. And I'm pretty sure my boobs are full of coffee grounds too. I'm down to only managing 2 cups a day and it makes me sad.
Bec65, I'm actually planning a "Yeah this hell is over" party of some sort. Leaning toward a trip to the Smokey Mountains with my kids and grandkids if we can work it out. If that fails, I'm doing a giant pool party with everyone we know. I just want something good to be able to say it's over and now I'm just me not a patient.
Jab, we'll actually be on the rad train about the same time. My surgery won't be until probably the third week of May or so, so rads won't start until late June. I hope. As to weither or not I'd want to know about stage 4 or mets, I'm pretty torn. I think I'd want to know because I really believe that at that point I'd say 'screw this shit, just let me live it out in peace and feeling as good as I can". Maybe if I was actually faced with it, I have a different take on it. I might tell them to throw the kitchen sink at it. But right now, feeling crappy with more crappy to come, I really don't know if I would go through this just to extend life for a while, if there was no hope to cure anyway. Of course I don't have young children to think of either. That would totally change everything.
Amazon, sorry you're in so much pain. I sure hope I don't get that bad because narcotics make me very sick, so hydrocodone and oxycodone are out for me. My feet hurt more at night, so I'm finding it had to get to sleep. The APRN gave me a script for ambien to try. Hopefully it'll help enough that I can get to sleep.
Pat, yeah on getting the port out!!! I bet it feels great. Sorry about your hubby. I don't think the flu shots were as effective this year as normal. I know three people who got the shots then got the flu anyway.
Northwinds, how is your Husband. Did his surgery go ok? Even more, how are you holding up? We can't really help, but you know we're always here to listen and cry with you. Well, maybe that will help a little bit.
Paulette, how you doing girl??
Tonilee, Phebe, how's it going.
Sorry if I missed anyone. We have so many wonderful people here, it's a little hard to get to everyone.
Hope all have a good week.
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Just home from Taxotere #3, and the first one for me that's JUST Taxotere, so Dr. Rockstar told me he upped the dosage some this time 'round. What that will mean for me in SEs remains to be seen, I reckon, but I CAN say that taxotere #2, with Cytoxan, was almost a non-event. I had maybe 4 days when I took two very low dose hydrocodones per day for pain, the bottoms of my feet felt a little like I'd been walking barefoot on hot pavement at times--nothing major, just annoying-- and my stomach was SENSITIVE (my taste buds want pizza, my stomach objects,) but otherwise, I felt fantastic. For being on chemo, anyway.
Definitely a huge improvement over how I felt for the four rounds of A/C, no question about it. The only oddity is that one day I'll feel great and the next day I'll feel tired as heck and sleep all day, then several days of feeling great, then a tired day. There seems to be no rhyme or reason or pattern to it. But that's okay. I can live with it.
Will be interesting to see if this time around is worse, the same, or what. So far, so good, though, four hours after infusion. Haha..
In three weeks I get my last chemo treatment (March 31st.) Doc is setting me up for the BRCA test, and planning my meeting with the radiation people, discussing tamoxifen, or if we can get insurance to pay for an oopherectomy, Femara. This train is moving on to the next station, and I'm glad....and yet in a way kind of scared because weird as it sounds, I'd actually gotten kind of comfortable with being in "doing chemo" mode.
New chapters are always scary at first, I guess, and radiation, and then moving on, are new chapters.
I gotta answer the question about wanting to know if I'm actually stage 4 or not.
Obviously, I'm on the very verge of Stage IV to start with, staged as a IIIc. Scary stuff.
I had 11 of 22 positive nodes, and one (or maybe two) of those had been completely taken over by cancer...extracapsular extensions or some such weird terminology. I do know it was large enough that before surgery, I could FEEL that node sometimes when I would lay certain ways. Makes me shudder even now. Also, my "lump" was 5cm at surgery but that was AFTER it had been biopsied and my surgeon took EIGHT pieces of it at biopsy so who knows how big it was before biopsy. (I'm gonna ask him about that one of these days.)
My surgeon didn't tell me the part about the extracapsular whatsits; I saw it myself in the pathology report when my husband picked it up to turn in to Aflac and had to look it up to see what it meant, and honestly, I've wished a LOT of times that I had NEVER seen that. But, I searched these forums and found several ladies who had a very similar diagnosis, extensions and whatnot, years ago, and who are doing just fine now, and that made me feel better. Much much much much much better. I can't even begin to explain how much that calmed me.
Aflac rocks, by the way. But I digress.
Quick answer: NO. If I am already stage IV I really do NOT want to know it right now. And I will tell you exactly why and it has NOTHING to do with being ostrich-like and sticking my head in the sand. I know what I'm doing here.
(NOT so quick answer: You've been warned. I just hope I can explain it so that y'all can see where I'm coming from.)
Someone I know very well was diagnosed at Stage IV from the get-go almost three years ago. At the time, they found mets to her liver, bones, and lungs.
In the early days, the mets to her bones were so extensive that she had all sorts of instructions about being careful because some of her bones apparently could have just crumbled at pretty much any time--or at least that's how they made it sound, and they did have her using a cane to walk around there for a bit.
I don't think the lung or liver mets were symptomatic at all in the beginning -- the whole thing was discovered because of a lump in her breast that she put off having checked out; she was YOUNG, only 27, and breast cancer was just unthinkable, and she looked and seemed healthy so....
Anyway, as I said, I don't think the other mets were symptomatic, but in those early days after her diagnosis--the first few months-- she DID have pain from the bone mets (taken care of with pain meds and radiation,) but the liver and lung lesions were definitely there, the liver one at least was big enough to be biopsied, and they were serious business. Not just tiny little things that might or might not be cancer, not like my hemangioma, not like some of these other things y'all are describing that have you (understandably) worried.
At one point the lung mets WERE apparently causing quite a bit of coughing, so they were symptomatic at one point in the game, at least.
Chemo took care of all of that. Seriously. ALL of it.
Now, she is NOT NED, and never has been: She is Her2+ and 6 months after her initial diagnosis, "several" lesions were discovered in her brain. We never knew exactly how many "several" was (she is one of those who doesn't actually ask her doctors very many questions; she does what they say, and lives her life,) but it was enough of them that she was given Whole Brain Radiation at that time---too many lesions for using the more targeted zaps.
Since then, for most of the time, the bone, lung, and liver mets have been almost a non-issue; not just non-symptomatic, but most of her scans have shown NOTHING cancerous below the neck. NOTHING. All GONE. Those mets haven't been symptomatic because they haven't BEEN THERE.
If it weren't for those pesky brain mets (for which she has had several different treatments including targeted zaps and surgery because they--or rather, new ones-- keep popping back up again) she'd be NED.
Between brain lesion treatments she's taken trips, spent time with her little boy and her family, thrown parties, gone to parties, done volunteer work, hung out with friends, helped with remodeling her family's home, gotten a divorce, dated, grown her hair back out, lost it, grown it out again, been sick sometimes, and felt pretty normal a good deal of the time, as well. She's been living, and enjoying, her life.... and again, if it weren't for the brain mets--which are a whole other ball of wax and harder to treat due to the whole "blood brain barrier" problem, she'd be NED right now. No evidence of disease below the neck despite the fact that when her mets below the neck were discovered they were DEFINITELY not unidentifiable blips on scans that might or might not be anything to be concerned about. Not like my hemangioma.
My point here is that knowing all this, I could choose two paths to walk:
Path #1. (The low road, lol.) I could drive myself crazy worrying that I might already be Stage IV, and demand test after test until they either do or do not find something, and if they do, I stay in chemo/treatment land, and don't get to spend any time putting cancer BEHIND ME. I feel good (chemo and lack of boobs and hair aside) and nothing is symptomatic even if it IS there right now, so why in the WORLD would I want to do that?
Path #2. (The high road.) I could accept that my surgeon and two oncologists, plus a very capable NP, all agree that my scans look fine (one probable common hemangioma on my liver, and something about bone deterioration on my collarbone, but otherwise, FINE.) NONE of the professionals who have seen my scans have seemed concerned about anything they saw.
I choose path #2 because maybe one day I'll have some symptoms or we'll do a scan for some reason and it will turn out that I AM Stage IV, and then I'll deal with that. THEN.
The thing is that from what I understand, and from what I've seen from my friend's experience, if something IS found, if chemo (or Aromatose Inhibitors since I'm er+ pr+ but not her2+) will shrink it NOW (if it's there) it will shrink it THEN just as easily.
Let me repeat that: If more chemo and treatment would help my (theoretical) mets NOW before they are growing and/or symptomatic, then that treatment will help them just as well later, AFTER there is a reason to go looking for trouble.
Now obviously I wouldn't want to sit around ignoring symptoms until (as my mom would say) my liver is "eat slam up with cancer," and too much damage has been done. If I have symptoms, real symptoms, I will get them checked out, and deal with the results as they come in.
Sensibly. (Okay, first I'll freak out. But then I'll be sensible. Right after renewing my Ativan prescription. lol.)
But until then.....why the hell would I want to put myself through that? Stage IIIc is bad enough without going looking for a reason to upgrade it. Seriously.
Another aspect of that, too and something I've thought a LOT about:
If I DO have little tiny undetectable mets someplace right now, they aren't actually HURTING anything, right? Growing and spreading maybe, but then again, maybe not, who knows? Maybe just sitting there minding their own business. They could die out on their own.... and after all, that IS part of what the Tamoxifen (or Femara) is for.
Now if I were to FIND those mets and start some sort of more harsh treatments for them NOW, we ALL know that pretty much every treatment for cancer takes its OWN toll on the body and organs and our health in general, right? *Treatment* for cancer can be almost as dangerous as the cancer, and it certainly isn't pleasant.
Okay, on the other hand, lets say that I just let those little mets do their own thing until they start to get big enough to cause symptoms or create a change in my body that I notice....and THEN I start treatment for them.
Guess what I MIGHT have just done? I just might have bought myself months or YEARS of time that those little mets just sit there minding their business and I'm NOT in treatment and am therefore not hastening my own declining health and possible death with harsher cancer treatments.
Bought myself possibly YEARS of time for those to just mets sleep away and during which researchers just MIGHT find a freaking CURE for this crap, metastatic and otherwise. Yeah baby! We're getting closer all the time, I BELIEVE that.
If nothing else, I've bought time for them to come out with more and better and less dangerous drugs to treat it.
Certainly I've bought myself months and maybe years of time when I'm NOT dealing with treatments and a bald head, side effects, (nevermind the SEs I'll most likely have from the Tamoxifen or Femara, depending on which one I wind up on) and all the other generally pain-in-the-posterior stuff that goes along with being "in active treatment." QOL, baby!
See, I considered all this very carefully when I saw that pathology report (once I was done freaking out and telling my husband "OMG I'm going to DIE!!!," lol) and once I thought it through very carefully and very logically, I totally GET what the doctors say about how finding mets "early" doesn't tend to "extend life expectancy."
Because once they ARE found, the treatments will either shrink (or eradicate in some lucky cases) the mets, or they will not, and whether you find them when they are 1mm or 2cm is usually irrelevant.
Waiting until they are 2 feet wide and you can claim them as dependents on your tax returns is a totally different thing, of course, because then they are big enough to cause symptoms and major damage. I'm (once again) NOT advocating ignoring something that is SYMPTOMATIC for more than a couple of weeks, or is an obvious change in your body. Get THAT stuff checked out. Pronto.
So yeah, based on what I know, my choice is to listen to my body, be watchful but not paranoid, and live my life.
Takin' the high road, all the way.
Does this make sense?
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hi everyone: I still feel this is where I belong. Can identify with you Amazon regarding the spotting. I tried neosporin but that didn't work so I tried Sudocrem and spread where spotting is. I use panty liners. Hope this works. Watch out for constipation. It's very frustrating to have that but it will heal. I also had spotting in my inner nose so I use Vaseline. That helped.
Bec65: my nails start to lift as well. I keep them short. I went to see a wound specialist and she gave me ointment Calmoseptine. I have two thumbs that are cracked and quite sensitive. I put that anointment on the tips of my thumbs. Then I put gauge thumbs. Here is how they both look. I also have rash in between my stomach and thighs. The wound specialist is helping me with the dressing. I'm going to show you how they both look
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As others have said in response to Jab's question, the central issue is whether knowing the test results would lead to any different action either medically or in life planning. At the opposite end of the spectrum from Lisa's example, here's a trivial example, but one that still stands out in my mind. I was in business school (1978-1980) and majoring in health care management. At the time, cost containment -- trying to avoid unnecessary tests and treatments -- was all the rage so I was pretty conscious of what procedures were or weren't done.
So I slammed my foot into something and ended up with a toe in rainbow colors and about three times its usual size and painful. I had free student health at the time, so I stopped by for a doctor to check it. The doctor said "let's get an x-ray". Knowing a little bit about smashed toes, I asked what the x-ray would tell us. She said we would know whether the toe was broken. So I asked what we would do if it was broken, and she said we would wrap it in bandages to stabilize it for 6 weeks. Then I asked what we would do if it wasn't broken, and she said we would wrap it in bandages for a few weeks until it stopped hurting. Needless to say, I skipped the x-ray and got the foot/toe wrapped.
At the same time, now that I have finished treatment, I am really uneasy with not knowing whether the treatments worked or not and wondering what the future will bring. My tumor was caught at an early stage, so I cannot begin to imagine how hard this is for those at later stages and don't want to be presumptuous in talking about my worries here. But this is my second time around (once in each breast, which means no more radiation if I have a local recurrence), and this last time was triple negative. I've been told that my chances for a recurrence in the next 3-5 years are around 20%. If it is a local recurrence, I would have to go through chemo again. I read in one place that if it is a distant recurrence, life expectancy is about a year (hopefully that source is dated, as the outlook for triple negative has been improving).
I must admit I am struggling with that outlook. I suppose I should take heart in the fact that in 2011, after my husband was diagnosed with prostate cancer and then a week or two later we learned that it has already metastasized to his spine, ribs, pelvis and scapular, somehow we adjusted after the shock wore off and life went on as pretty normal for another 18 months.
I am reading "After Breast Cancer: A Common Sense Guide to Lift After Treatment" by Hester Hill Schnipper, and I highly recommend it. It starts from the perspective that, as I am experiencing, when the busyness of treatments stops, the emotions set in. Thankfully someone recommended the book (and reminded me I already had it though I didn't really read it after my last bout with cancer) when I was feeling like I was the only one who didn't feel like celebrating at the end of treatments. It just feels so odd not to be taking action any more.
Anyway, lots of meandering thoughts as I prepare for a follow-up with my MO and removal of my port tomorrow. Hoping for an uneventful though long drive to Denver despite ongoing fatigue and predictions of snow. -- Ellen
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Ellen, I don't think I'm going to feel like celebrating at the end of treatment, either, honestly. I think I'm going to feel a bit lost and definitely uneasy. That's something else I thought hard about, and whether KNOWING more would ease that feeling, and I came to the conclusion that it wouldn't help me at all..... and here is the hilarious reason why:
This would be me if we could get scanned and tested every time we felt worried or anxious or uneasy:
Is my cancer really gone?
Get scanned.
No sign of cancer.
Yay!
2 months later:
Is it back?
Get scanned.
Nope, no cancer
Yay!
3 months later:
How bout now?
Get scanned.
Still no cancer... Yay...
And it would just go on forever. If I let myself obsess I WILL obsess, so I have to logic myself into NOT obsessing. It's just how I operate and always have, and I don't think this whole cancer thing is going to be any different.
Also, I don't think you are being presumptuous at all, not even a little bit. Mine was found at a later stage, but you have a perspective that I do not: You've had it recur so you know firsthand that it definitely can, and does, happen. Personally, I think the uneasiness must be harder on YOU than it is on ME, because of that. But honestly, deep in my heart, in my soul, I *believe* that this entire thing is a crapshoot so far as who gets recurrence and who gets mets and who does well and who does not. Either or both of us COULD already be metastatic and not know it..... and either, or both of us COULD be done with cancer for the rest of our lives. So no, I don't think you're being presumptuous at all. We're in the same boat.
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It's almost 2 in the morning and I can't sleep. WHY can't I sleep? Because I can't stop getting up to PEE. And I'm having to wear a pad because occasionally I must pee before I even realize I must pee and I'm tired of changing pants. Sigh. I think they must have pumped me full of water today instead of chemo and pre-meds. This is ridiculous.
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Lisa - I have the same problem the first week or two post chemo. Swear it's something in the drugs that causes weird incontinence.
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@Quirky You'd think I'd be used to it by now, but it was worse last night than before; maybe because I'm getting over UTI, I dunno. Better today so far and I hope it stays better because I've got to go for my Neulasta shot in an hour or so---or "whenever you want to show up" they said yesterday-- and the ride is an hour each way. Lots of fast food restaurants with germy bathrooms along the way though! Hah.
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Hi Ladies,
Thanks soooo much for your thoughts on the "knowing your stage 4 or not' question. I truly hope more wade in with their thoughts too, as you ladies have thought this through more than most. I really did not know until last week that if I was scanned and they found more cancer, it really wouldn't matter from a treatment perspective. No more 'preventative' treatment. From here on in it's all about quality of life. So yesterday, after thinking about this pretty much nonstop since my last appointment with my BS, I woke up from a dream, which I cannot recall any of (which is wierd) and knew I didn't want to know if I was stage 4. (If Freud was alive, I'd be his muse). Anywho, the upshot is, as you ladies have discussed - Would it change how I currently live my life for the better? I'd like to think that I'd throw caution to the wind and do all those things I've always wanted to, and finish off with a big bang but....., I am to much of a control freak. If I knew, I'd be managing everyone and every thing around me to do what I could to 'fix' the unfixable.
Ironically, I had an appointment with my MO yesterday who said she would request at PET scan for me. She and I have not been seeing eye to eye since she decided to not review my last CT scan, so yesterday, I had have THAT conversation with her. I NEED to know she is not hiding things from me. Anyway, somewhere in the discussion, she thought it was about the PET scan, and I was too tired to correct her, so now I have access to getting a PET scan for breast cancer which is unheard of in these parts. So, I'm gonna think about this for a while longer or until they book me in for a PET.....
Ellen, Lisa - I also don't really feel like celebrating the end of Chemo - Ellen, I'm going to go and get the book you recommended. Any sage advice from someone who has been their is always helpful. Lisa - Loved your response to my question!!!
Lisa/Tonalee - I also have the extracapilliary extensions whatits. I looked and looked on the Dr google to understand EXACTLY what it meant from a prognosis perspective and came up with a vague 'not good'. Tonalee, I know you mentions this before too. Do you have any more specific links, info that you could share?
Smrlrv - I am so glad one of us northern folk has managed to escape to the southern sun (it is snowing here today - 20cms Arrrrrghhhhh). Don't feel bad about being high maintenence. As someone pointed out to me recently, I am saving a bunch of time I use to spend on my hair, so really, time spent on looking good is probably the same as pre-cancer treatment.
Wallymama - We'll do the rads train together! I'm waiting to meet with my RO to find out the new schedule, but right now it looks like mid June for me too.
Bec - Congrats on the hairs!!!!!
Amazon - I have had some spotting on Taxotere. I did have one heck of a mess when I started chemo, though. I bled like crazy for about a week and then it stopped. I asked my MO yesterday when would I be officially in menopause and she said it is a year after your last period, but the younger you are, the more likely you will have 'breakthrough' bleeding.
Audra - Good to hear from you! I am also getting some swelling under my arm and in my back. PT has recommended a very tight camisole. I have one large boob and one no boob so 'tight' is hard to achieve on the no boob side. Good luck with your trip. And if you do melt down, go easy on yourself. Life is pretty much filled with stress for all of us right now so new stress just makes the cup overflow. (I had a great meltdown this weekend so I speak of which I know....)
Paulette - Hope your OK.
Have a great day, ladies.
Judy
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This is my 3rd attempt to post this, as I unfortunately lost it the first 2 times in the cyber space.
Here are my thoughts on "knowing your stage 4 or not' question. You can look at it from 2 perspectives:
One would be more like me, always trying to be on top of things, researching, questioning, ultimately having more questions than answers.
Or like my hubby, who is going with the flow, trusting things with work out eventually for the better, and accepting answers from med pros as status quo.
Both of them have pros and cons. The pros of being proactive is that you feel like you have some control over your destiny and makes you feel like you have done something to make it better.
On the other hand, you can become a worrywart, and literally worry yourself to death.
The other approach has its advantages in worrying less and just living your life, but that also implies that you let cicumstances dictate your life.
I guess there should be also a happy medium, when you are proactive, but you don't let worries take over your life.
I would like to add a quote by an HIV patient whose answer to the question: What it's like to be dying of AIDS? he answered that he would rather rephrase that question into:
What's it like to be LIVING with AIDS?
My approach would be similar: What would it be like LIVING with BC?
There are numerous medical conditions that are not curable, for instance heart disease, yet many people go about their normal lives.
Once you have a heart attack, it's the first of many, and one of them can be fatal. A lot of people just have to accept that as a fact of life. They do go on meds, but go on normal living as much as possible.
Another comment would be an idea that my nurse mentioned to me after I broke down in my MO's office. She said that I should think of getting bc like getting into a car accident. You get hurt, but then you are trying to get fixed up and get better, and eventually you go back to driving your car after you overcome your initial fears of driving again.
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I guess I came into this -- getting my own bc diagnosis -- with more knowledge of stage IV than a lot of women do. As I said before, my friend who is stage IV doesn't do the research, doesn't do a whole lot of questioning, and in a way I understand why she doesn't: Her doctor is at the VERY top of her field in doing Her2+ research and was instrumental in the development of Perjeta. If any doctor knows what she's doing, it's this one. She's on top of all the research because she's one of the ones DOING the research.
There are other people close to my friend though who DO want to know more, and I've been the designated researcher.
Ironically when I got my diagnosis, I knew a heck of a lot about Stage IV her2+ IDC and nothing at all about ILC which is what I've got. God, if I had known ANYTHING about ILC I could have diagnosed it myself--or at least strongly suspected it-- over a year ago. But that's water under the bridge and I digress again.
Anywho, yeah, I know that from a treatment standpoint, at THIS point in time, nothing much would change if I were re-staged to IV, except that my chances of convincing my doctor to let me get my port out soon after my last taxotere would be pretty much nil, and I want my port out! If it has to go back in someday, so be it, but I want it gone NOW.
My state of mind would certainly change though, there'd be no getting around that.
So unless/until I become symptomatic of something worse and go for testing, I'm going to take the attitude that so long as I believe I'm stage IIIc, then stage IIIc is ALL that I am.
My current attitude is not that I HAVE cancer, but that I HAD cancer.
I see no reason to think otherwise.
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Hey All! Finished rads today. Thank the powers that be I had IORT at surgery, because I would have refused the boosts. Even the RO, surveying the damage he had wrought said he didn't see how my skin could have tolerated it. Black and peeling axilla and poor pitiful nipple. Bandaged nipple with a telfa non-stick pad yesterday that still managed to pull off the skin when I removed it. So unbelievably happy to have the port out: every time I turned my neck I felt it, yuck! but enough about me...
Quirky, yes to the swelling. After my 4th TC I gained 12 pounds, all in my feet and legs. They were hideous and sore. I called my Dr, spoke to the nurse, and she said to call back if it got worse. I don't think I adequately impressed her with how bad it really was, cause the rads nurse was shocked I wasn't put on diuretics. I lost the weight in a week and a half, round about weeks 4-5. I peed so much and so often that my kidneys got sore!
Amazon, I had some hemorrhoid bleeding while on chemo. Hello, preparation H! Stick with them stool softeners too...
Jab, I agree with Lisa. I say, look forward to summer, getting in that kayak, getting to Scotland. Live life. We are all of us LIVING, that's what is important. Someday we will all die, but that's a matter for another day. Stage IV carries with it too much menace, I say, if necessary, allow yourself to get to stage III d or e, screw stage IV.
Ellen, as soon as I read your post I went on Amazon (no, didn't jump on AmazonWarrior, went to the site) and ordered the book. I too am feeling more emotions now. I think I just gritted my teeth and forged ahead for the last 9 months. It's been a rough ride, but I didn't stop to think or feel. Tomorrow I see the MO and get my script for my aromatase. I'm not happy about it: I plan to jump up and down and demand whatever drugs I need so that I can tolerate the hormone therapy. Better a drug addict than dead, I say. I can always kick whatever I'm on in five years if I can stay healthy. Heck with the DEA.
I'm here as the cheering section for those of you still in active treatment! You go girls!!!
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JAB, I've thought so much about your question. I even had a dream about it last night...can't remember it now, but I did when the alarm woke me up.
If I had responded yesterday, I would have said that I would want to know. I'm a control freak who's constantly trying not to be, but if there's knowledge to be had, I'd want to know. There's no sense in burying one's head in the sand, right? In thinking through my answer, I even played out having to tell my family, my kids. I thought about the women whose posts I've read here on breastcancer.org who live with stage IV. I thought about my aunt's friend who has lived "normally" with stage IV for 8 years. I thought about my MO telling me about one of her patients who is stage IV only because she had a spot on her pelvis. She got it zapped 7 years ago and has been living happily NED since then. I was very clear in my head that I would have the PET scan and take Ativan until the results came in!
Then I read Lisa's and Amazon's posts, and I'm a convert. Once again, thank you ladies for helping me to think something through so much more effectively than when I do it on my own.
As a stage III'er, I am awfully close to stage IV as it is. In fact, there's a school of thought that the high risk of mets for stage III'ers is really because a lot of us actually are stage IV but the distant cancer cells aren't numerous enough to see on CTs.
I remember my first appointment with my surgeon. I went in thinking I had a 1 cm IDC (because that's what the blankity blank doctor told me during my core needle biopsy; a rant for another day), and he said no, it's 4 cm. I nearly fainted and started insisting it MUST be 1 cm b/c the other doctor had said so. Why would she have said that if it weren't true? She called me and TOLD me. You must be wrong, Chief of Surgical Oncology at UC Davis Medical Center! He very calmly (annoyingly calmy I thought at the time) said, "It doesn't really make a difference how big it is. The treatment will be the same."
I've thought about that a lot, and also the fact that NO ONE at the Cancer Center HAS EVER said what stage I'm in. I only know because I asked Dr. Google My oncologists didn't tell me, and it doesn't say it on my surgical pathology report. The treatment would be the same. It doesn't matter.
Now, don't get me wrong. I would much rather be in the no-nodes group or the 1-2 cm group, but here I am. My cancer has taught me that I ned (ha! Freudian typo! I'm leaving it there!) to keep on working on being present in the present. I'm getting another lesson in that with my daughter who is home from college for the second time in two years. The consequences to myself from my own control issues are huge.
So, I now firmly believe that if my doctors are good with the way they and I will be monitoring me from now on, I'm good with it.
Audra, the books are The Gifts of Imperfection by Brene Brown and When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron. I've read the library's copy of The Gifts of Imperfection twice and finally realized I needed to own my own copy and keep it under my pillow! If you haven't heard of Brene Brown, google her TED talk on vulnerability...it will make you think and think and think. She has another TED talk on shame which is really provocative also. I'm only 30 pages into When Things Fall Apart. I feel like I'm on the edge of "getting it." It's the zen version of the When Bad Things Happen to Good People.
Ellen, I'm next on the waiting list at the library for After Breast Cancer. I'm so hopeful after seeing it recommended by so many. I hope you'll share what you think after you're done reading it.
Well, that's my two-cents-worth. I just want to say, thank you, thank you, thank you to everyone for being here and being brave enough to be so open. I've talked about how you all are and how we are with each other so much to my DD over the past two weeks in an effort to try to get her to group therapy. Thank you all for being for me what I want for her!
xoxo
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Pat, I was typing when you posted...congratulations! I'm so happy for you that you're on to maintenance mode! Oh, happy day!
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Lisa, what wrote makes so much sense and I wish I wasn't the control,person I am. When I am done with treatment I want to not think about the what ifs for a long time. It is time to enjoy life. That being said, I too will not be celebrating being done with treatment. Because we are never really done, are we? There will still be appointments and tamoxifen. After the initial,emotions of diagnosis, I have forged ahead through treatment like a soldier, doing what I was supposed to do. I haven't really focused on the emotions, but this week he whole thing has hit me and I haven't even started radiation yet.
You are right that it is a crapshoot; I have seen women of all,stages and node status with mets on these boards, so I try not to think about that anymore.
I also plan on getting the after breast cancer book. I hope it can help,me put my life into some perspective. I really need that.
So I got my port out today, but that was not without drama. Last night, around 12 my husband was calling for me. He was dizzy, sweating, nausea and could,not walk. We really thought he was having a stroke. My husband is scared of doctors, but he agreed to let me call 911. So at 1 this morning the ambulance came to my house. I can only imagine that my neighbors thought it was coming for me. They took him to the ER and I followed, after many tests, thankfully DH did not have a stroke or heart attack. He has vertigo! They don't know what caused it, but he is,still dizzy and couldn't take me to get my port out. I thought I would have to cancel. But I wanted that sucker out and my friends husband took me. My husband has been my caregiver as we have no family up,here. Now I am caring for him! He is still dizzy in 3 days, he will need an MRI. This is all really crazy and all,too much. We can never seem to catch a break.
Port is out and painful. BS also fixed a dog ear left from MX under my right arm. So tomorrow's simulation should be fun. And I will be alone. DH has to rest.
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