Antibiotics and breast cancer

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Srh242
Srh242 Member Posts: 328
edited June 2014 in Alternative Medicine

My acupuncturist told me there was a study on antibiotics and bc. I took lots of them for lyme disease . Is there anyone else in the same boat?. I think this caused my leaky gut.

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  • wrenn
    wrenn Member Posts: 2,707
    edited January 2014

    are you saying the antibiotics caused your cancer or helped it but caused leaky gut?

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited January 2014

    All "leaky gut" really means (except for certain rare conditions) is that you killed the good bacteria in your intestines. A couple of months of a good probiotic should fix that right up. 

    You should ask the acupuncturist for the reference to that study, because it is not something I have seen anywhere in two years of reading a lot of stuff about BC.

  • new_direction
    new_direction Member Posts: 449
    edited January 2014

    Interesting. Thanks... I wonder if it's because there is a link between inflammation and/or infection so that it's not the antibiotics in itself that causes it?

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited January 2014

    Light, thanks very much. However, each of the articles takes pains to explain that it is correlation and a fairly weak one at that. It may well be related to bowel bacteria, as one of the articles also notes. In pharmacies here, they usually give you probiotics along with antibiotics to alleviate this problem.

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited January 2014

    Yes, many studies which have already been posted point to the idea that intestinal flora plays a part in bc. This article mentions how antibiotics may have an effect on breast cancer.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14970061

    There is enough of a correlation that antibiotic use concerns me.  I had been off and on antibiotics for several years prior to my diagnosis. I remember reading about the studies after I was diagnosed, showing the correlation. I'm not saying that I think that the antibiotics caused it, but I have enough reason to believe it sure didn't help, possibly made it worse, and is something I want to steer clear of now, if at all possible. 

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited January 2014

    Kay, YES, exactly why we "need to be prudent about long term antibiotic use" as the article above mentioned.

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited February 2014

    Lyme disease is real though. Being a sick patient asking for relief is not silly. Doctors repeatedly  prescribe antibiotics for long term use for a variety of disorders involving the immune system because that's the only protocol that they are authorized to use as a general doctor, not because they are irresponsible. The antibiotics don't support a healthy immune system regardless of diet. Educating ourselves about ways to improve our immune systems w/o antibiotics seems to me to be crucial. 

  • Lily55
    Lily55 Member Posts: 3,534
    edited January 2014

    one piece of recent research says its best to take probiotics with antibiotics as well as afterwards......i started doing this and find I can prevent thrush, i take probiotics every day, very high non dairy strain 

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited January 2014

    Lilly, yes if taking antibiotics is unavoidable, definitely agree that replacing the good bacteria to the extent that is possible is a must. 

    I remember an infectious disease specialist telling me that it takes a few to many months of probiotic use and healthy eating to build up the kind of bacteria that is needed after a period of antibiotic use. Following my breast cancer diagnosis, he said it was very important that I choose a probiotic w/ Saccharomyces Cervisae in it. he wrote it down and told me to be sure of this. He also told me to increase my fiber intake by several times and to take psyllium husks daily to help restore healthy gut bacteria and improve my immune system.  

  • abigail48
    abigail48 Member Posts: 1,699
    edited January 2014

    pro biotics taken at the same time will cancel out the anti-biotics I heard.  better to take the pro-biotics after the anti-biotics has zapped whatever you took them for

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited January 2014

    Kayb.I agree that overuse and misuse of antibiotics is a major health concern. Its just a shame that they keep being prescribed to combat illnesses, like lyme disease over and over again,  when they do not help and may be harmful, especially when there are natural alternatives that strengthen the immune system rather than weaken it, as antibiotics often do.

  • Lily55
    Lily55 Member Posts: 3,534
    edited January 2014

    i cannot find any evidence that probiotics cancel out antibiotics, it used to be thought that antibiotics would nullify probiotics but in fact probiotics help prevent diarrhoea from strong antibiotics so thus help absorption........

  • abigail48
    abigail48 Member Posts: 1,699
    edited January 2014

    I don't take anitbiotcis at all for anything, not firm but I havn't taken any since 1974.  but that they don't work for viruses doesn't make sense either:  viruses are macrophages, ie they eat bacteria, so it would seem that the antibiotics would starve the viruses.

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited February 2014

    Sometimes doctors will refuse to test for the offending pathogen until 2 or 3 antibiotics have failed. Patients then often become more ill  from their severely impaired immune systems from not having the proper bacteria in the gut. Once finally tested for the pathogen and given the correct antibiotic, it is then standard of care for doctors to prescribe more antibiotics to treat problems caused by antibiotics, such as small bowel bacterial overgrowth. I believe we have to advocate for and educate ourselves so we don't keep taking the wrong antibiotics, or take antibiotics for sbbo, or to treat immune conditions like lyme, when they don't correct the problem.

    I contracted leptosporisis once while in Indonesia, and yes ..when finally given the right antibiotic, it saved my life. I believe we need to ask our doctors to test for the offending pathogens early on so we get on the right antibiotic, if that is indeed what is needed...the first time. I think then it is important to self-correct small bowel bacterial overgrowth which is often the by product of too many antibiotics, instead of taking more antibiotics and winding up so sick, that we are talking to an infectious disease specialist that finally says to stop the antibiotics and prescribes something as uncomplicated as a regimen of fiber and probiotics. I'm sharing my experience because I know it is not uncommon. I'm including these studies because I believe that this probiotic not only finally corrected my gut flora, it might have helped to save my life. It causes apoptosis in breast cancer cells.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15274310

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18695883

    Also you can search for this study, it's a PDF so I couldn't create a link

    Induction of Apoptosis in Breast Cancer Cells by Saccharomyces ...

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited February 2014

    Light, yes, good point about testing instead of just throwing antibiotic after antibiotic at the problem. My mom went through that several times with pneumonia.

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited February 2014

    I also take several other supplements now to boost my immune system..mushrooms, astragalus, cats claw, ashwaghanda, and beta glucans, etc.,  so that it will be less likely that I will contract something that requires an antibiotic. I just wish standard of care would update their practices to the current knowledge that is out there and recognize the value and importance of the immune system, so that their practices can begin to start supporting it.  

  • abigail48
    abigail48 Member Posts: 1,699
    edited February 2014

    Im wondering, light, if yeast can be used topically?

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited February 2014

    Abigal, I'm not a doctor but it seems to me that the mechanisms involved w/ the success of this probiotic require the gastrointestinal tract. I don't know though. The articles do say that it killed the cells in vitro, which is completely independent of the body. 

  • abigail48
    abigail48 Member Posts: 1,699
    edited February 2014

    just begun eating no good bread again after going on 7 + years & I notice a lot of darkening.  not sure if more than it was but will keep a looking for that more now.  & may try a honey & yeast dressing at some point.  yeast is iffy as like endrometriosis it spreads everywhere.  & the bleeding Im experiencing lately looks like when I had endrometreposos??

  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited February 2014

    Thank for all of the responses. I took antibiotics for lyme for about six months, but I always took probiotics with them

  • Ariom
    Ariom Member Posts: 6,197
    edited February 2014

    I take pro biotics every day too. Have done for many years, and even managed to get rid of stomach ulcers without the 3 x antibiotic protocol.

    I was in Hospital in Singapore a few years ago and had to have IV anti biotics, after having taken many different antibiotics on a cruise to try to clear a stubborn UTI, and what turned out to be a Micoplasma infection in my lungs. The Doctors there, always give pro biotics while giving anti biotics. They explained to me that Antibiotics clear out both good and bad bacteria, so replacing the good bacteria regularly, helps prevent the bad bacteria from proliferating.

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited February 2014

    I took probiotics, and ate yogurt while taking antibiotics, and following them too. That is sort of common sense, but it never resolved my problem. My digestive tract, after having taken several rounds of antibiotics, remained severly off kilter, despite the probiotics.  I just became more and more ill, until I took the saccharomyces cervasaie (also a probiotic) w/ fiber, along w/ several things to help boost my immune system. 

    Most probiotics do not have any strains of sacchromyces in them. Sacchromyces is a species of yeast. It apparently controls colonization of h-pylori, c difficile, and others known to take over. Many regular probiotics just ward off the candida (another type of yeast), which is important too. But for significant illness related to problems with gut flora, regular probiotics just will not do. Additionally, more antibiotics (which is what docs prescribe for it) do not work either. 

    Several articles I've read indicate that h pylori is associated w/ various cancers. Makes sense when you think about what it does to the immune system. Sulphorphane from broccoli sprouts, supposedly kills h pylori and c diff too. 

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited February 2014

    Light, interesting about that particular yeast. I looked it up and it is the yeast involved in winemaking. I wonder if it is therefore the yeast naturally present on grape skins. In Italy, they also make bread starter (sour dough) using grapes.

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited February 2014

    Momine, that's pretty interesting too. One more reason to keep passing around the wine.  

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited February 2014

    Light, now you are talking! ;)

  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited February 2014
  • abigail48
    abigail48 Member Posts: 1,699
    edited February 2014

    why use dairy?  & I think I'm allergic to it, for the melatonin, I like to take things I know what they are   recently gary said"but don't eat muffins."  I thought but how are muffins different from other refined carbs:  no yeast.

  • lightandwind
    lightandwind Member Posts: 754
    edited February 2014

    Here are more references on saccharomyces cervasaie and breast cancer. 

    https://donate.cdrewu.edu/cancer/Articles.asp

  • Srh242
    Srh242 Member Posts: 328
    edited February 2014

    where can you buy the sacharomyces cervaceai?

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