I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange
Comments
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That's a great idea Juliaanna
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Hi all,
Just a brief check-in before I run to the hospital. I sometimes read the thread there on my smart phone - but it's such a pain to post with that I usually don't.
I think a big part of the problem with our country is that we no longer have news media reporting what actual facts are or correcting misstatements. It looks like there's two sides to some issues that really don't have two sides. If most of the country understood that there is scientific consensus on climate change, for example, we might get something done. However, when news media just put two people up, one representing the scientific consensus and the other representing the one percent of scientists who work for or are paid off by big oil, there appears to be split opinion, when there really isn't.
I believe the ACA would be a lot more accepted if we had reporters who actually did their jobs.
Okay liberal rant for the day.
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Just to let you know.....I deleted my last graphic because it used a word for conservatives that some ( no one here actually ) might object to. I did not know how to fix it...so chose to delete it. Just bringing it up so you know what I did and why I did it.
Jackie
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These are the things I love to see http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09/23/who-would-have-thought-it-gop-promoting-obamacare-in-texas/ and I hope they just keep coming. I the the nay-sayers have made some inroads, but the more often these articles show up....the better. The only way to iron out 'problems' is to finally get this implemented and I think those who refuse to see that it is the law and it WILL happen are just unable to grasp basic truth. So, Mr. Cruz --- it is in fact the GOP and you who are the obstructionist problem and I think in short order that will be seen.
Jackie
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Krugman's column today castigates the regressives for their war on food stamps. I wholeheartedly agree. SNAP isn't "handouts," as they like to sneer. SNAP is a "helping hand." And of course the SNAP rolls increased - the recession threw millions out of work and the job market has yet to recover because of many factors, including the uncertainty that the regressives like to tout. But it isn't undertainty over the Affordable Care Act - that's a constitutional law, folks, untwist your panties and move on. It is uncertainty over what havoc regressive obstruction in Congress will wreak next, including shutting down the government and crashing the world economy over the debt ceiling (which most regressives cannot understand is paying the bills for things Congress already authorized). If the Republican'ts in Congress would step up and actually govern instead of obstructing, the economy would improve more rapidly and SNAP rolls would indeed drop. But they have shown themselves absolutely incapable of looking beyond anything but their next election and maintaining regressive-crazy orthodoxy.
The New York Times
Free to Be Hungry
By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: September 22, 2013
The word “freedom” looms large in modern conservative rhetoric. Lobbying groups are given names like FreedomWorks; health reform is denounced not just for its cost but as an assault on, yes, freedom. Oh, and remember when we were supposed to refer to pommes frites as “freedom fries”?
The right’s definition of freedom, however, isn’t one that, say, F.D.R. would recognize. In particular, the third of his famous Four Freedoms — freedom from want — seems to have been turned on its head. Conservatives seem, in particular, to believe that freedom’s just another word for not enough to eat.
Hence the war on food stamps, which House Republicans have just voted to cut sharply even while voting to increase farm subsidies.
In a way, you can see why the food stamp program — or, to use its proper name, the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program (SNAP) — has become a target. Conservatives are deeply committed to the view that the size of government has exploded under President Obama but face the awkward fact that public employment is down sharply, while overall spending has been falling fast as a share of G.D.P. SNAP, however, really has grown a lot, with enrollment rising from 26 million Americans in 2007 to almost 48 million now.
Conservatives look at this and see what, to their great disappointment, they can’t find elsewhere in the data: runaway, explosive growth in a government program. The rest of us, however, see a safety-net program doing exactly what it’s supposed to do: help more people in a time of widespread economic distress.
The recent growth of SNAP has indeed been unusual, but then so have the times, in the worst possible way. The Great Recession of 2007-9 was the worst slump since the Great Depression, and the recovery that followed has been very weak. Multiple careful economic studies have shown that the economic downturn explains the great bulk of the increase in food stamp use. And while the economic news has been generally bad, one piece of good news is that food stamps have at least mitigated the hardship, keeping millions of Americans out of poverty.
Nor is that the program’s only benefit. The evidence is now overwhelming that spending cuts in a depressed economy deepen the slump, yet government spending has been falling anyway. SNAP, however, is one program that has been expanding, and as such it has indirectly helped save hundreds of thousands of jobs.
But, say the usual suspects, the recession ended in 2009. Why hasn’t recovery brought the SNAP rolls down? The answer is, while the recession did indeed officially end in 2009, what we’ve had since then is a recovery of, by and for a small number of people at the top of the income distribution, with none of the gains trickling down to the less fortunate. Adjusted for inflation, the income of the top 1 percent rose 31 percent from 2009 to 2012, but the real income of the bottom 40 percent actually fell 6 percent. Why should food stamp usage have gone down?
Still, is SNAP in general a good idea? Or is it, as Paul Ryan, the chairman of the House Budget Committee, puts it, an example of turning the safety net into “a hammock that lulls able-bodied people to lives of dependency and complacency.”
One answer is, some hammock: last year, average food stamp benefits were $4.45 a day. Also, about those “able-bodied people”: almost two-thirds of SNAP beneficiaries are children, the elderly or the disabled, and most of the rest are adults with children.
Beyond that, however, you might think that ensuring adequate nutrition for children, which is a large part of what SNAP does, actually makes it less, not more likely that those children will be poor and need public assistance when they grow up. And that’s what the evidence shows. The economists Hilary Hoynes and Diane Whitmore Schanzenbach have studied the impact of the food stamp program in the 1960s and 1970s, when it was gradually rolled out across the country. They found that children who received early assistance grew up, on average, to be healthier and more productive adults than those who didn’t — and they were also, it turns out, less likely to turn to the safety net for help.
SNAP, in short, is public policy at its best. It not only helps those in need; it helps them help themselves. And it has done yeoman work in the economic crisis, mitigating suffering and protecting jobs at a time when all too many policy makers seem determined to do the opposite. So it tells you something that conservatives have singled out this of all programs for special ire.
Even some conservative pundits worry that the war on food stamps, especially combined with the vote to increase farm subsidies, is bad for the G.O.P., because it makes Republicans look like meanspirited class warriors. Indeed it does. And that’s because they are.
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Mmmmmm hmmmmm.
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This is exactly why someone needs to stuff a permanent sock in Wayne LaPierre's mouth. He appeals to some but clearly hasn't a clue to anyone who wants to see people have an opportunity to not be shot or shot at when they are going about their business. I took great issue with the idea that the thing stopping a bad man with a gun was more good guys with guns. Numbers are not the item. It is most of the other things....like illegal sales, no background checks, and those types of things. Of course, criminals get guns and they always will. In my lifetime I have been approached by a criminal with a gun exactly ...never. That could change....anything could, but it does make it plain to me whom I have to consider in this debate.
Jackie
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RL Paul Krugman at his best. In this day and age....no one should be hungry, but if the are.....anyone attempting to take people off SNAP should have to go at least two days a week with nothing. At one time it was "let them eat cake", but this time I think it should be let them eat...nothing.
Jackie
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To the Choir
In case you haven't yet read Roger Simon in today's Politico. Was gonna do a linkie, but this is too good.
Why President Obama looks so exhausted
By: Roger Simon
September 23, 2013 05:03 AM EDTBarack Obama looks exhausted these days. He looks about as tired, in other words, as the nation feels.
He knows this. At a speech Saturday, he said that people are always telling him to “hang in there.”
“Don’t worry about me!” Obama said. “I am still fired up, because I still see the work that needs to be done!”
The audience cheered and applauded his old slogan from 2008 — “Fired up! Ready to go!” — the old fire in the belly, the old Obama.
But by Sunday, he seemed drained again. Speaking at a memorial to those slain in the Navy Yard shooting, he pointed out it was the fifth time in his presidency that he has addressed communities “ripped apart by mass violence.” And his presidency is not even six years old.
While his words were elegantly written and delivered and, I do not doubt, of genuine comfort to the families of the victims, Obama offered no solutions.
“By now,” he said, “it should be clear that the change we need will not come from Washington, even when tragedy strikes Washington. Change will come the only way it ever has come, and that’s from the American people.”
So in the world’s greatest democracy, our national government is so broken that it cannot act to save the lives of its citizens from mass slaughter. And the president admits it.
How sad. How true.
I do not blame the president. I do not blame the nation. Nor will I say “the system” is to blame.
The system is not to blame. The scorpions are to blame.
It is the fable of “The Scorpion and the Frog,” which dates back as least as far as Aesop and has many forms. It goes like this:
A scorpion comes to the edge of a stream and asks a frog to carry him across. “But if you sting me, I will die,” the frog says. The scorpion replies, “But if you die, I would drown.” So the frog begins to take the scorpion across, but in midstream the scorpion stings the frog.
“Why?” the frog gasps, knowing they now both will drown.
“It is my nature,” the scorpion says.
There are scorpions among us. They sit in Congress, committed not to solving problems, but blocking solutions.
They would take the food out of the mouths of children. They would put the insurance companies back in charge of health care. They would shut the government down, refuse to pay the nation’s bills, destroy the trust that other countries place in us when they buy our bonds, they would do all this rather than give President Obama the slimmest of political victories.
Why? It is their nature.
I am not talking about the entire Republican Party. I am talking about a faction of far-right, tea party-driven congressmen who do not care who drowns.
They don’t have real alternate plans to help people. They weren’t, they believe, elected to help people. They were elected, they believe, to keep the other side from helping people.
“It’s just they’re not focused on you, they’re focused on politics,” Obama told a group of autoworkers in Liberty, Mo., last week. “They’re focused on trying to mess with me.”
The audience laughed, but Obama was deadly serious. Our government lurches from crisis to crisis. Our nation staggers from brink to brink. And why? To mess with the guy in the Oval Office, that’s why. (And now that you mention it, where was he really born?)
Obama wants the Congress to pass a budget. (Fat chance!) He wants it to raise the debt ceiling so our nation can pay its bills. (Ha!) And he wants something else.
“You should expect some compassion; you should expect some compromise,” Obama told the autoworkers. “You should expect the conviction of leaders who wake up and go to work every day, not to tear something down, but to build something better.” (Oh, stop. You’re killing me. This is just too funny.)
Unlike some, I don’t fear a shutdown of our national government. I fear a shutdown of our national conscience.
Last week, Congress voted to cut $40 billion from the food stamp program over the next 10 years, even though food stamps keep many working people, including military families, from slipping into poverty.
Cutting off food? Really? Is this what our country has come to?
The good news is that this probably will never happen. In the unlikely event the bill were to be passed by the Senate, Obama would veto it.
It is just more games. More politics. More meanness of spirit. More trying to tear down rather than build up.
It is just, sadly, what passes for normal in Washington these days.
Roger Simon is POLITICO’s chief political columnist.
© 2013 POLITICO LLC
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Really good article. Very sad truth.
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How did we get from "looking after US to looking after ME"? I include Canada in this question. How did we ever get to a place where narrow self interest was able dominate? How did we get to a place where the idea of a PUBLIC GOOD was replaced by private interest. I feel very, very sad right now.
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We didn't pay attention while a few rich people started pushing their agenda. Many/most of us grew up when the Democrats controlled Congress, so the people who wanted to do away with all the safety nets really didn't have a chance. We got complacent. We thought that what we were used to would be the way it always was. We didn't scream when the rules for media were changed - so the talk radio shows and Faux News (and MSNBC, too) could exist. We didn't have an outcry when all the media outlets were purchased by very few large corporations. We didn't vote when we should have. We didn't take care of our democracy while it was being plundered. We expected the "other guy" to take care, because we had enough on our plate trying to take care of our families. We got too busy living our lives to worry about the state of government. We messed up. We need to fix it.
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Kay - remember in the movie The Graduate, when the Dustin Hoffman character hears the word "plastic." The operative word now is MONEY. It's taken over US political system, aided and abetted by SCOTUS decisions, gerrymandering has left Congressional Districts so "safe" elections mean nothing at that level, organizations like ALEC now even write legislation for local state legislators (Bill Moyers had a disturbingly wonderful progam about ALEC) and narrow "cultural" issues dominate.
Tragic. I join you in feeling sad, and strangely hopeless about it all.
Someone once asked Ghandi how he knew nonviolence would work in his fight against the British government, and he supposedly responded, he knew he could TRUST the morality of the British. Wish I could say the same about one of the "sides" in the current politics of the USA.
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I was raised in a fairly fundamentalist religion. If there's one thing they taught me it was that they were/are at the core the most self-serving group(s) there are. The rules apply to everyone but them, and they will use any rule they can find to control the lives of people they don't like. If you believe differently than they believe, they don't like you and don't trust you. Their use of the word "morals" means something far different then what I think of as morality.
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Hi Friends,
I am so excited. I just made flight reservations to travel to San Diego in mid October. I haven't seen my son, DIL and gorgeous grandsons in a year. I miss them so much. Got a very good deal using Expedia. My little Nicky will be 6 the end of October and Isaac is already 9 and in third grade.
Sunnflowers ... Looking for the "like" button on your comment about Ghandi.
Gumby ... I agree with you. I think the word moral/morality has a much different meaning for some than it does for me.
hugs,
Bren
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Hi Friends,
I read the following comments on a right-wing website:
Maybe it is the food stamp program that are making our kids fat.........
you can go to any dumpster behind any grocery store on any night and find perfectly good, fresh food to eat............
Obesity is much more of a problem in this country then starvation.........the only kids that starve are the kids that are chained up by parents and starved on purpose.........Are there really Americans who feel this way out there?
The Republicans who voted for the FOUR BILLION dollar cut in food stamps apparently think they are doing the starving a huge favor by cutting fraud and abuse in this manner. I didn't realize that fraud and abuse made up 25% of the food stamp budget.
This reduction, which will be implemented by the individual states, will also negatively impact those receiving other social services, including social security disability. How many of us have friends that are on SSDI and have lost their homes because of medical bills? I know quite a few Stage IV sisters struggling on SSDI and those with other disabilities.
Bren
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Bren, Bren, Bren....Don't you get your groceries in the dumpster! How do you think I live in such a big house, in an affluent neighbourhood? Silly girl! The dumpsters in my area have the best food!
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Just for information sake, fat kids are fat because they eat cheap food, not nutritious food, because the families are poor.
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The brussel sprouts are the best!
To blah or not to blah!
BENGHAZI!
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People who think that the poor should forage for food in dumpsters are so completely morally bankrupt that they are barely human anymore.
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And of course, anybody can make up any number at all about anything. I could say that 99.8% of Republicans engage in some sort of tax fraud. I cannot substantiate that number, but I can say it all day long. Maybe if I say it loudly enough and often enough, someone will believe me.
Here is the USDA's webpage about SNAP Fraud (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP, is the official name for food stamps). SNAP fraud is a Federal crime. Criminal investigators (Special Agents like my DH) investigate SNAP fraud.
http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/fraud.htm
And here is the page from USDA's website about what SNAP fraud is:
http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/fraud/fraud_2.htm
What is SNAP Fraud?
SNAP fraud is when SNAP benefits are exchanged for cash. This is called trafficking and it is against the law.
SNAP fraud also happens when someone lies on their application to get benefits or to get more benefits than they are supposed to get.
SNAP fraud also happens when a retailer has been disqualified from the program for past abuse and lies on the application to get in the program again.
Let’s Look at the Facts about SNAP Fraud
The trafficking rate in SNAP has dropped dramatically.
Due to increased oversight and improvements to program management by USDA, the trafficking rate has fallen significantly over the last two decades, from about 4 cents on the dollar in 1993 to about 1 cent in 2006-08 (most recent data available). (note - that would make the SNAP fraud rate about 1%)
The federal government is aggressively fighting SNAP trafficking.
USDA and the Obama administration are actively working on behalf of American taxpayers to protect the federal investment in the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and make sure the program is targeted towards those families who need it the most. USDA aggressively acts to control trafficking by using SNAP purchase data to identify suspicious transaction patterns, conducting undercover investigations, and collaborating with other investigative agencies.
USDA uses the latest in available technology to track and control abuse of the SNAP.
SNAP electronic benefits transfer (EBT) has given USDA new tools to identify, track, and take action against trafficking. We use the electronic “audit trail” from EBT transactions to identify trafficking and other suspicious activity. The Anti-Fraud Locator using EBT Retailer Transactions (ALERT) system monitors electronic transaction activity and identifies suspicious stores for analysis and investigation.
USDA dedicates staff to investigating and prosecuting fraud
FNS has a dedicated team of over 100 analysts and investigators across the country dedicated to SNAP retailer compliance. They analyze retailer data, conduct undercover investigations, and process cases – including fines and administrative disqualifications – against violating retailers.
FNS also works with State law enforcement authorities to provide them with SNAP benefits that are used in sting operations, supporting anti-trafficking actions at the local level.
The federal government takes action against those who misuse the program.
In FY 2012, over 100 analysts and investigators reviewed over 15,000 stores and conducted nearly 4,500 undercover investigations. Close to 1,400 stores were permanently disqualified for trafficking and nearly 700 stores were sanctioned for other violations such as the sale of ineligible items.
FNS also works with State law enforcement authorities to provide them with SNAP benefits that are used in sting operations, supporting anti-trafficking actions at the local level.
USDA’s Office of the Inspector General also conducts extensive criminal investigations – many resulting from FNS administrative oversight findings and referrals – to prosecute traffickers.
In FY 2012, OIG SNAP investigations resulted in 342 convictions, including a number of multi-year prison terms for the most serious offenses, and approximately $57.7 million in monetary results.
In FY 2012, OIG devoted more than 50 percent of its investigative resources to prevent SNAP fraud, waste and abuse.------------------------------------------------------------------
But of course, we know that the people who throw around bogus numbers they pulled out of their ... shoes ... REALLY mean that the people who are using SNAP are committing the fraud. They aren't, but it is easy to demonize people who are accepting help.
Here is a very detailed article from the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities about the SNAP program. I'm quite sure that the people who are throwing around made-up numbers won't read it -- facts aren't really their cup of hemlock tea. But the information is out there, easily accessible.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3239
But again, anyone who tells poor people to forage in dumpsters for food is not a reliable source about anything.
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I wonder if the problem with the "scorpians" in Sunny's posted article is their total lack of shame. They are not shameful about anything they say or do. At one time, in my lifetime, it would be embarassing to go around saying the POTUS was not legally qualified to be so and just make up stuff about his supposed birthplace, in the face of so many contrary facts. What they say about Obama's birth are just out and out lies. At the least, a sign of willfull ignorance. Has lying become acceptable now? How is okay to claim being a Christian, but deny food for the poor? Have churches become the new safe havens for those who disdain the poor? Now we see example after example of racism publicly displayed with absolutely no shame at all. There seems to be no code of behavior in Congress anymore. Wackos are elected and exhibit wacko behavior in the chambers.
Since 2010 and the rise of the Tea Party, well, the tea leaves could be read
...the GOP will implode upon itself. Their behavior cannot be sustained if there is any hope we live in a civilized society. There are still traditional GOPers around - can they continue to tolerate this wacko element of their party? Can they survive their primaries without adoping this behavior? We're starting to see cracks - can they come a little quicker guys? my rant...
On another topic...walking in the woods this morning...in the woods on an old dirt road, with the cougars, coyotes, bears, etc, and this women is walking her 3 dogs and a cat!! The cat wasn't even on a leash. First of all, the dog I was walking with is highly suspect around cats, so we got her on a leash asap, but I just felt this was so risky for the cat. (Many people who live around here lose cats, often, to coyotes and mountain lions). Maybe walking the cat along with 3 dogs provides some protection, but yowzer.
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Our media - while Chuck Todd gets beaten over the head for absolving the media of fairly reporting on the ACA - claiming the POTUS didn't do a good enough job, Chris Wallace shows us evidence that Fox News gets it's marching orders from the GOP.
"This has been one of the strangest weeks I've ever had in Washington," Wallace said on "Fox News Sunday." "As soon as we listed Ted Cruz as our featured guest this week, I got unsolicited research and questions, not from Democrats, but from top Republicans to hammer Cruz."
Palin responded on Twitter, writing: "@FoxNewsSunday Keep it TRULY fair & balanced. Release the GOP names encouraging you to trash @SenTedCruz. No more anonymous sources."
So, does Chris Wallace always get directions from top Republicans "to hammer_______?" How does Sara Palin feel so comfortable as to ask CW to release sources?? We have no independent media. They are owned. -
Another viewpoint of having food taken away and again.....if Congress can't do any better.....what they have should go first....then we will see what needs to be done about food..............
Now back to read everything posted since I left to get a bunch of work done. I'm really tired ( not enough food ) and it is not 2:30 yet. See you all when I'm done reading.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09/23/congresspeople-shall-not-eat/
Jackie
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Ok.....I'm just coming in to add blanket agreement to everything that has been said. Also to praise a man whom I know deeply cares and is still fired up and ready to go, albeit tired. Just the thought of all the un-seemingly behaviors exhibited just since Pres. Obama was sworn in for the first time is enough to cause a depletion of vigor.
I think about some of the things I just read......and I think no wonder the Pres. is tired. I'm sure he has had a great many of the same thoughts that were expressed here. He is not giving up on us and I would not dream of giving up on him. I think there are many, many, many who elected him who are not going to give up either. We can work it out.
Jackie
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Kam .. I am hugely against having outdoor cats. Two days ago I found the dead body of a cat in my field. Makes me so mad. This little kitty should have been kept indoors. The people in my neighborhood always leave their cats outside during the day. I just don't get it ... they can get killed so easily.
hugs,
Bren
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Kam...at least my hard core, SP loving sister in Boston doesn't claim to be a Christian too.
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So sad,
This is why we must have national health care!
https://www.facebook.com/stephaniesautter?fref=ts
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