masectomy vs. lumpectomy
Hi ladies, it seems like there is some newer research that suggests that a lumpectomy with radiation is better for survival vs. masectomy. I have not yet had my surgery and am just trying to gather as much information as poosible so that I can make an informed decision. I also still have yet to talk specifics from my doc but if I remember correctly, at one of my initial consultations with a surgeon they said it was "my choice". Not so helpful. At this point I think I am leaning toward a masectomy, maybe even bilateral. We all have the overall goal of best survival so I am asking what everyonoe else knows about this. Thanks for your input.
Comments
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Here is an article regarding this study, with comments by the doctor involved:
This study does not take into account the general health of the patients involved, or what factors drove the surgical decision. It also combines stage 1 and 2 together, when there is a difference between the two stages in regards to nodal status.
You posted this in the Her2neu forum - are you Her2+? One of the reasons I chose bi-lateral mastectomy was because of the aggressiveness of Her2+ breast cancer.
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special K: Thanks so much for the article, much appreciated. Yes I am HER 2 +, not sure why it is not showing up since I have my settings makred as "public". Anyway, I have started chemo about 6 weeks ago and am planning my surgeries after that. I am basically investigating all of my options now. Interesting point that the research did not compare masectomy with radiation only lumpectomy with radiation. My docs said they would do masectomy, then radiation, then reconstructuction. I am so excited that you passed your 3 year anniversary
!!!!! Keep going strong and thanks again.
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girlstrong - I am not quite to my 3-year point yet, I was diagnosed at the end of September, but did not have surgery until Nov. 1. At that time they discovered a positive SNB, so I had ALND where another, much larger, positive node was found. and that surgery was in Dec. of 2010. I count from there because that is when the last known cancer was removed. Are you having rads because of the location of your tumor, or is it just a generalized recommendation? I asked both my BS and MO each twice and both felt that I did not require rads - possibly because of the BMX and ALND. I was actually a lumpectomy candidate who self-elected BMX, I am glad that I did because I had undiagnosed ADH and ALH in the non-cancer breast. I had some recon issues, as you can see by my sig line, but I have no regrets. My personal feeling was that since mammography failed to see my 2cm mass, I could not trust it going forward - MRI failed to see my positive nodes, and my breasts had proven they knew how to make cancer, so I wanted a BMX to help eliminate future risk. On the other hand, some people feel that they will do the lumpectomy first, and that they can always opt for a MX/BMX down the road, but you can't undo a BMX if you have regrets.
Here is some additional food for thought. Check the post with the links by Beesie - post is June 22nd at 1:41 p.m. Also check the post by Beesie again on June 20th at noon for an excellent dissertation on the lunmpectomy versus mastectomy discussion:
http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/5/topic/806541?page=1#post_3600791
http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/91/topic/806452?page=1#post_3598134
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Special K: thanks for all of the articles. I am planning to print and read all of them. I am still planning on bilateral masectomies plus radiation to the affected side. At my initial diagnoses, the docs said that would be part of my overall plan. However, because thee are so many steps to this whole process, I have not yet had a chance to to talk specifics with the readiology oncologist. The plan is to have chem, start Herceptin in October, do masectomy, heal, do radiation, heal again, then do reconstruction. I would like for some part of the reconstruction to occur along with the masectomy but not sure if that can happen. I have already had oone surgical consult and am planning another soon.
Question: at your initial diagnoses did you get any type of bone or PET scan? I did not. I ghave asked 2 separate oncologists and they feel that these are not necessary if the clinicial picture and other tests do not suggest a metastasis. I am assuming that I will have thoses tests done to monitor my situation after all the chemo and surger is done???
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girlstrong - I had a pre-chemo PET scan, but it was done after BMX with TE. I had a pre-surgical mammogram, ultrasound, bone density (not a bone scan) and MRI. The PET was done because of the Her2+ and positive nodes (which were unexpected, since they had not been apparent on any imaging) for staging purposes. I also had a post-Herceptin PET, and then one done about 8 months ago. Scans and tumor markers are something that seem to be specific to your oncologist - I happen to have one who does both, but I know others who are similar stage and their docs don't do either. This is a question that should be asked at the beginning of treatment, or when you are doing consults - how will I be followed? There are a lot of people who are frustrated because they have non-scanning docs.
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Special K: thanks for your input. I think my docs and my 2nd opinion docs are of the non scanning type for an initial diagnoses. I my oncologist next week and I will ask more specific questions about this.
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girlstrong - the reason I mentioned asking about the methods for following is that often we are so consumed with getting the treatment plan in place at the beginning that we are not at all focused on what will happen at the end of active treatment. I have seen many on this site who wish they had docs who scanned and did markers - these folks seem to be more nervous going forward after treatment feeling they are not "being watched" as closely as they would like. It also goes to the argument over whether to look for recurrence or mets, or wait until you experience symptoms. It seems that oncs fall into those two schools of thought and it is important to determine which kind of doctor you want to end up with just so you know what to expect.
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Special K: I couldn't agree more. We all need to be very proactive in out care and ask lots of questions. Be informed about the care we recieve. I will continue to push until all answers are answered. Thanks
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girlstrong - excellent! Good luck!
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It seems all research I have read indicates that for early stage cancer, lumpectomy vs masectomy is negligible. I had a 5cm tumor, did not have a SNB and was placed right into 6 rounds of TCH (of which I have now completed the 5th.) I am at the point of considering masectomy vs lumpectomy. My Dr estimates that I was in stage III but without SNB cannot place me Precisely. I am wondering if anyone has any info on Masectomy vs lumpectomy for later staged cancer? I am seeking a second opinion from a surgeon at UVA...would I be better seeking a second opinion from an Oncologist for this question?
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Girlstrong,
There was a very good article published in the Journal of Clinical Oncology which concluded that post-treatment blood marker, liver function etc. testing was NOT recommended. The sad truth is that, once our cancer has metastasized, how early it is detected has no relation to either treatment or survival. This is a situation when the standard mantra of "the earlier the better" is not correct. The article stated that many of the tests given by oncologists were inconclusive and/or even false-positives for metastasis, false results which led inevitably to unnecessary surgeries, pain and considerable emotional stress. Journal of Clinical Oncology, Vol 21, No 9S (May 1 Supplement), 2003: Doc, Shouldn't We Be Getting Some Tests? If this is outdated, I'd appreciate learning where I can find the new material. Thanks!
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I did pre-chemo for a 3 cm tumor deep against the chest wall. ER/PR+ HER2 - . I did not have any markers or scans prior to treatment. I asked and was told it was more important to start attacking the cancer since it was grade 3 and the initial US showed no involvement in the lymph nodes. After chemo I decided to do a BMX even though I was a candidate for LX + Rads. My final pathology showed a near pathological complete response for the tumor only 5mm left. SNB showed clear. There was some DCIS found in the tumor bed and one margin was focally involved so I will be doing rads as well.
I am comfortable with the no scans because by the second chemo treatment we could feel the tumor shrinking fast. Knowing that the chemo was working gives the encouragement that it is killing any floating cells.
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Hi siisis, your right about false positives. When I received a second opinion I asked about scans and he said that he hasn't seen a PET scan come back "clean" even in the general population. Take a look at nccn.org Register as a provider and it gives you a wealth of information for best practice guidelines for all types of cancer. If you go to the breast cancer section you will see that for stage 1and 2 breast cancer, scans etc are not indicated unless there are symptoms and /or clinical blood markers present.
Jbdayton, so glad your tumor responded to chemo!! Your doctors rationale for doing neoadjuvant treatment is exactly what I was thinking when I made my decision. Can't wait until chemo is done for me!! -
Girlstrong,
Are you referring to tests AFTER the completion of chemo and treatment? -- My concern is that the Society of Clinical Oncologists recommends AGAINST women having these blood and serum marker tests at their six-month or yearly checkups -- and yet oncologists still routinely administer them. If the national society for oncologists says not to give these "follow-up" tests, then why are some oncologists doing it? And why are women subjected to the agony and fear and pain which accompanies those tests??
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Hi Siisis, all of my tests were done at time of diagnoses. Hope you find some resolvment with all of this
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My wife was diagnosed with breast cancer in August, 5cm triple positive. MRI PET neg lymph node neg. no family history breast cancer
She did taxol/Herceptin and finishes AC on 1/14.
We weren't sure what surgery to get and were leaning toward BMX. Last week, MO said tumor was size of a pea and that we should talk to breast surgeon about lumpectomy.. We met with RO for a consult today and no lump was felt. He said based on the reords he review he thinks my wife is excellent candidate for lumpectomy with small chance of recurrence and not to do anything "drastic". He said we will know more when we get post chemo MRI.
I'm just wondering how many ladies that were HER2 + that chose lumpectomy.
the above posts were helpful especially the pros and cons one but Im interested in personal experiences as well.
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