A few questions

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DLTurner1982
DLTurner1982 Member Posts: 4

My mum was diagnosed with inflammatory breast cancer in August 2012 HER2 positive, had chemo, double mastectomy, axillary clearance, sentinel node biopsy, 25 rounds of radiation to chest wall, and herceptin, she was given the "all clear in April 2013, no sign of cancer in any of the breast tissue removed, no lymph node involvement, yay! We celebrated! 10th of June mum had a massive seizure, 11th June 2013, "I'm sorry but there are 10 lesions on your brain, metastatic brain mets, you'll need whole brain radiation, steroids, and chemotherapy, you may have 6-12 months to live" f*** what? 29th of June went into hospital with Double Pneumonia, 18 days in ICU and she passed away July 17 2013! :( aged 51! No brain scan was ever done after initial diagnosis just bone, chest and abdo, is this normal? WHY????? Why not scan the brain? Why not tell us that it can even go to the brain? Why tell her she beat breast cancer when In fact cancer had spread! So upset and angry a month today since my beautiful mum passed and I need answers, clearly it had gone to the brain prior to the double mastectomy, so why no scan? Won't change anything now, but I know mum, she would have chosen to live the last 12 months

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  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2013

    DLTurner, I'm so sorry that your mother, and you and the rest of your mother's family, have gone through all this.

    This probably won't make you feel any better, but from what you've described, it sounds as though it's likely that nothing could have been done to change the outcome, or give your mother those extra 12 months.

    Most breast cancer is very slow growing.  Doctor's make their assessments and projections based on how most breast cancers react.  So when the doctors said that they thought your mother had 6 - 12 months to live, they were saying that based on what would happen in most cases.  But your mother's case clearly was an exception.  That sometimes happens.  A beloved longtime member of this board was recently - just a few months ago - diagnosed with spinal metastasis.  Everyone, including this individual, expected that she would move on to treatment and live many years. Yet she was an exception and just a few months later, to the shock of everyone here, she's gone. There was just no way to know.

    Would a brain scan and an earlier diagnosis of the mets would have made a difference for your mother?  Because your mother had multiple lesions on the brain, the answer is "most likely not". 

    Then there is the question of screening.  Brain scans are not usually given to breast cancer patients unless there is evidence that there might be brain mets.  Sometimes mets develops first in the brain but that's not usual - usually mets starts somewhere else and then eventually may move to the brain.  So since all your mother's other scans were clear, and she had no symptoms, there was no reason to do a brain scan.

    Here are a couple of links that explain this:  Frequently Asked Questions about Brain Metastasis     and    Screening for Brain Metastases  An Interview with Andrew Seidman, MD, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center

    I am terribly sorry for your loss and I understand your need to ask questions and to find out "why?".  Sometimes the answer is simply "There is nothing that could have been done to change what happened."

  • DLTurner1982
    DLTurner1982 Member Posts: 4
    edited August 2013

    Thank you for the response, if a brain scan had been done After diagnosis the path mum chose to take in relation to treatment would have been very different and instead of 11 months constantly sick from chemo or in pain from radiation and surgery, she would have been able to live a bit more, the oncologist said that the herceptin kept the cancer from spreading to other areas of the body but because of the blood barrier it couldn't get into the brain, after the mets we were offered tablet form herceptin and tablet firm chemo that are designed to break the brain blood barrier so why aren't these drugs just being routinely used! Mum was very frank with the oncologist about how she was feeling health wise prior to the brain mets diagnosis, headaches, double vision, visual aura, dizziness, confusion, short term memory loss, extremely lathargic, the oncologist still ordered no brain scan but simply said "the effects of the chemotherapy drugs can last up to 12 months". I am angry! The signs were there, I realise the brain mets would have ended mums life, but had we known about them prior to everything else the quality of mums life would have been different! We were never even told about metastatic disease, not one person told us "hey you might beat the initial cancer but the secondary's will get you" not one word about secondary cancer, we knew nothing! Don't they(the breast care nurses, radiation oncologist, the surgeon, the oncologist) have a duty of care, shouldn't they have given us all scenarios?? I don't know where to go to get answers :( our hearts are broken, our mum is gone!

  • ballet12
    ballet12 Member Posts: 981
    edited August 2013

    Hi DL--So sorry for your loss and for the sense that things might have been different, at least for the past year.  I don't know about the protocols for when brain scans are done as part of the initial diagnostic work-up.  You might want to post on the Inflammatory Breast Cancer threads, to see if others have gotten brain scans.  It does sound like you were very poorly informed about treatment and possible outcomes, including metastatic disease. Inflammatory Breast Cancer is one of the most aggressive forms of breast cancer, so your mother was at more risk of disease progression or even of mets at initial diagnosis.  The prognosis for IBC, in general, has improved, but still it is an extremely aggressive disease with survival statistics that are not terribly high.  You should have been told this, and that reaching an initial apparent disease-free state did not guarantee an "all clear" as you stated.  I do work in a Neurology Department, and all of the symptoms you quoted, would have been red flags for brain/nervous system issues.  Do you know if IBC is treated on a regular basis at the hospital your mother was treated at?  That may be part of the problem you are experiencing.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2013

    DL, did you attend all the doctors' appointments with your Mum?  Is it possible that she might have been told more about the risks and possibilities but didn't want to pass that along to you, so as to not worry you?

  • DLTurner1982
    DLTurner1982 Member Posts: 4
    edited August 2013

    I was at every appointment, I went with her for the mammo, biopsy, all onc appointments, spent 8 hours pacing the hospital while she had surgery, took her to every chemo and every radiation, moved in with her to look after her(when she was too sick to look after herself) emptied her drains, dressed her burns after radiation, took her to the dr and for the CT after the seizure, broke down and begged them to rush through the results and give them to us rather than send them to the dr, read the results to her, drove her to the hospital slept in ICU with her for 18 days and listened to her heart as it stopped beating, so yeah was there for it all. Xox

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited August 2013

    DL, I'm sorry if my question came across as being insensitive.  I've spent a lot of time on the board and I know that sometimes women don't choose to share everything with their family members - even their adult children - because they don't want to scare them.  Other times you see situations where the person who is diagnosed doesn't truly absorb what is being told to them about their prognosis by their doctors - I am dealing with a situation like that now within my own family.  So I wasn't in any way questioning your involvement in your mother's care, but was simply wondering if perhaps the doctors had been more forthcoming about the possibilities but the information was never passed along to you.  If you were at all the appointments, then obviously that's not the case. 

  • DLTurner1982
    DLTurner1982 Member Posts: 4
    edited August 2013

    Sorry, it's fine I appreciate any help, but yeah mum wanted me at all appointments and my sister came to alot also, we just feel like we weren't given enough information

  • Momcat1962
    Momcat1962 Member Posts: 665
    edited August 2013

    DLTurner,



    I have a similar story about my dad and his lung cancer diagnosis...his "doctor" kept prescribing antibiotics for dad's "bronchitis"...for months. Dad was diagnosed in a hospital Fathers day June 2004. (Dad was never told to have a chest x Ray in the many months before his cancer diagnosis.) Dad was scheduled to have a bone scan and the tech was a 5 foot female who weighed about 100 lbs. My dad was 300 lbs and because she couldn't help him on the table, instead of finding assistance, she had the scan canceled! No tests were done other than his lung biopsy and three pleural effusions. No brain scan, only "oh, you could live years." Chemo, then rads. Dad's femur broke due to bone mets in early October. He died two weeks later. (4 months and one weeks after diagnosis.) :( oh, his primary, antibiotic-loving doctor? Lost his licence one month exactly before the day Dad was diagnosed...dr had been hooked on pain meds. We retained an atty but my dad's records mysteriously disappeared.

  • Cdx
    Cdx Member Posts: 20
    edited August 2013

    I'm so sorry for your loss. My mom also died of IBC at 38. And I was half her age when I found my first mass. I just had surgery and awaiting results.



    All I can say is lots of times docs fail and sometimes they don't. But yes I think ppl are misinformed about the extent of modern medicine. It's hard to know when the doc knows best and when your gut and/or Dr Google know better. Sadly I've had a lot of chances to watch their limits and mistakes at the expense of lives. But you also wouldnt wanna operate on yourself, though tempting at times cause u know your body best, so they still have a place.



    And I believe my mom did the best she could and everything else was ment to be. Docs need to take responsibility for their actions. But patients need to too, and not be sheep. And obviously at the end It's all part of the master plan.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2013

    DL, I am terribly sorry for your loss.  I will pray for your family.  Your post has pushed me to ask my doctor to be sure that the pet and ct scans that I had covered the brain.  In this way, you may well save several lives as others become conscious of what is needed to ensure an accurrate diagnosis.

    Thank you,

    V

  • Krissygirl333
    Krissygirl333 Member Posts: 3
    edited August 2013

    ❤I'm so sorry

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