Here's what cheezed me off today

PM Purple, she's off the boards now , but does get pm alerts

Rocky, I was just talking with Phyliss(PDG) about the same thing. What I have observed over decades either with patients or family is what I termed Situational Confusion. It may be a term that is in actual use now and I just haven't come across it. The way I apply it is this----A person is put under a high degree of stress that is overwhelming them an situation or an event. The brain/mind manages by filtering information. If the incoming information is too much to handle the brain/mind stops the inflow by whatever action it determines will control the situation. For example, I can't handle what is around me, a thought pops in that says go take a nap, go for a walk, get out of here.

The example, you gave of losing the train of thought if you are interrupted. Been there, still there, but it's now less as time has moved on. In the time period that both DH and I were in the 1st year of cancer, then moving into the 2nd year. Our conversations could get pretty strange. We'd both would have many times of forgetting  in mid sentence.

We made up three words, I need to retrieve somehow what they were.

Definition #1 Splat-When we would be talking and completely forgot what we were saying, we would say --"Splat". The word we used here was easily understood by each of us, and to those we taught it too. Sounds bizarre, but it was a funny word. We'd laugh. It was less frustrating then saying I totally forget what I'm talking about. It literally has been about 3 years since I used the word b/c Dh passed away 3years ago this month.

Definition#2 Tourettes--either of us would blurt out "Tourettes". Our usuage meant we just remembered something that we had remember/forgot/remembered/forgot etc and I remember it right now and have to say it before I forget again. We both knew it meant that whatever conversation was happenning, it had to be interrupted right now b/c the remembered piece was important.

Definition #3_________forget totally( maybe it'll pop--splat did)

I think I remember a place I can retrieve the words from. Our memories were so messed up b/c of overwhelming stress---bombarded from all angles, AND we were both on meds. I wasn't on any of the meds mentioned in the article until 2010, but I was on arimidex.  Dec 2009, I met my new PCP. She fixed me. Pain control, anxiety, muscle spasms, break through pain drugs

With this article even though much of it was known to me re:pain meds and antianxiety meds and a few other drug classes interferred with short term memory. Some of the drug classes were surprising i.e. statins and bladder control drugs. Not that I'm on them, but for those that are, this can be  striking information if it was unknown to them.

What is gelling for me is, we can actually use the short term memory interruption of thes drugs or stress to our advantage in the treatment plan if it's done right. In the horrific first year of cancer, we go through so much. If I as your teaching nurse were able to add into my teaching plan a whole section on memeory. It would include a definition on memory, how memories are created and stored. Teaching about the drugs and stress affecting memory with strategies(things to do) to evaluate, manipulate response, change as needed.

In this the teaching would include a description about the inability to remember, and that we could use this as an advantage. In normal life we forget the past. What I'm suggesting is that we take advantage of this normal forgetting , put this together with the minds ability to protect itself in the presence of overwhelming stress, AND that some drugs cause an interferrence with the chemical conversion of short term memory to long term memory and create a plan. We do this by admitting that what before this time has been identified as a disadvantage i.e. a problem, instead we look at it as a benefit.

Hey cut me a break, if this isn't absolutely clear, I'm making it up as I go along LOL

How can this be a benefit? If the teaching/thoughts are put together right. We can say to a new patient."This is a very troubled time. It might feel terrible that you can't remember what's going on now, but this is how it's going to benefit you 1-2-3-4 years down the road". "This experience(nightmare softened) will be a distant memory and much of it will be forgotten". "Here's the plan as to how we are going to work with your mind to forget this experience(nightmare)."

What I've said is radical. Very RADICAL. Prior to this memory interrfence has only been seen as a problem. I'm saying let's dissect it, tear it apart, put a program back together that can be used by all to teach how to make sure these awful memories of the worst cancer year(s) are forgotten.

The concept of controlling memory is already in place for decades for use with surgery. It was known decades ago that patients will remember every detail of surgery if an amnesic drug is not used. Barbituates were the first drugs in western medicine used for there amnesic quality for surgery. For decades the barbituate drug of choice varied on the length of the surgical procedure.  But barbituates can have bad side effects. Barbituates were phased out for standard surgical procedures by the early 80's. Benzodiazipines were introduced in the early 60's, Valium was the first.  Given IV at higher doses than the by mouth dose, valium has an amnesic affect. It was replaced in the late 80's by Versed because Versed had a stronger amnesic affect.

With all the above in mind. I'm saying let's do the same with cancer as what's done in surgery. Let's think how to make: forgetting"  part of the plan. Many/most of the patients are on the drugs as part of their plan anyway. We just need to figure out how to teach it to practioners, patients, families, public that allows for understanding of the benefit to the mind to not have these memories.

Rocky, What's absent from the conference and the studies is---In the conference it was stated that nothing with chemo brain is lost, the ability to retrieve information is impaired. This will reverse itself in some and remain unchanged in others. But it also was stated that it was unknown why it was different in the two.

The conference dialogue was huge. I need a nap from what I did read. I didn't see anything where the drugs mentioned in the AARP article were factored in. Could have made a difference.

Many references were made to refer for neuropsych testing. Problem is there is no pretesting. Validity is a problem. I can speak from experience of having two neuropsych tests done. One 5 weeks after last surgery. Next was 2years(?). I failed the "executive function" --EF-portion of the test #1. 2 years later it was in normal range. Would have loved to known what it was before the assault of chemicals. EF is not how you function as an executive as one idiot doc with no neuropsych education tried to imply.

In the conference, I didn't read anything that said that Short Term Memory was interferred with being converted into Long Term Memory. This is a chemical happening LOL. Should have said chemical conversion.

Rocky did you see anywhere that this direct question was asked and answered?
In the AARP article all the drugs identified were connected to STM not being converted to LTM. I'll have to reread article to confirm this.

What's interesting is that in the conference with no reference to these drugs in the article being mentioned, much was said that eventually memory returned. But did the memories surrounding actual events during that time return or was it memory in general improved or did not improve. In the absense of a direct statement, I don't think conclusions can be drawn. Particularly, when for those that memory did not improve was it determine that they had continued on any meds that interfere with conversion of STM to LTM. So, the continued memory impairment may be to the continuation of memory impairing drugs versus the chemo /anesthesia drugs.?

OH well, great questions without answers. The only way to validate chemo brain is to exclude all those that were on or continue to be on memory altering drugs from the 10 classifications listed in the AARP article? OR determime who was on them at time of chemo and then discontinued within X amount of time? OR chemo plus continuation of these drugs?

How many people do you know that went through the first year of BC without OXY or other opiod, Ativan or other benzo, or benadryl with chemo? How many are on something with the AI's and tamox? How many have permanent injury that is preceived to be connected to treatment that are still on some of these chemicals?

UGH!

Sas, interesting stuff here. But I also have fibro fog. So with the two, I was a real mess for awhile. Almost gave up talking. Driving was awful. I'd see brake lights, knew I was supposed to do Something.................. Oh yeah, stop!!!!!! But I didn't crash into anything. Still scarey with both. It's eased off now.

When my dad first saw my chemo hair--all curly instead of totally straight-- he said, "WELL!  It looks soooo much better than the way you've been wearing it for years.  It's about time.  I hope you KEEP it this way."

Thanks for deriding the way I have looked for years.  And thanks for putting the pressure on for me to somehow miraculously "keep" the chemo hair.

Yeah, I HATE to hear oh your hair looks so nice, blah blah. What? I looked like chopped chit before? Geez thank you SO much

Ro, I just made another pitch on STFU last two pages to get DNA testing to see how each metabolizes drugs. Suggest you check it out. Then check out the things I recommend before making any changes. Your life has been so F***-up by paintball therapy. It's time to get your doc into 21st century medicine.

I coined the phrase "paintball therapy" in the 90's. It means "Let's throw a treatment at the patient and see if it sticks(works)". "Hey, it doesn't stick, we'll throw another treatment and see if it sticks" ETC, ETC,

http://community.breastcancer.org/topic_post?forum_id=31&id=797503&page=308

continues on page 309

YouScript link, explains why DNA testing is important.

http://youscript.com/patients#

No PD "Paintball Therapy" is mine LOLseveral decades.

RO, at least with the smoking , you don't CARE if you froget something LOL

Indian guy, Sansa Gupta? Something like that. I have chemo brain and fibro fog.

Sorry to be cutting in the thread here but I just have to thank you all for your posts!  Last night I was so anxious because I have my port put in today and they could get it in at my lumpectomy because of complications...I came here and started reading the beginning of the thread and laughed hysterically for a vey long time.  I couldn't stop! I cannot express enough how this helped me...I didn't want to talk with anyone and God sure answered my prayer by leading me to this place.  God Bless you ladies and especially the lady who started this thread.

lovewins, come around anytime!  I'm glad our posts helped you out... heck, they still crack me up when I think about some of our experiences 2 years later :-).

U-farmer, hi stay awhile, thanks for link

S-p that's fine. On kindle it keeps changing the words hugs all sassy,