Drinking alcohol, statistics and recurrence

Hi Shikari,

Not to confuse you even more but while you wait for others' advice, you may be interested in reading up on the Research News stories from the main Breastcancer.org site that focus on Alcohol and Risk. Our Research News team comprised of medical writers and experts strive to translate research in to understandable, relatable information.

We hope this helps, and we're sure there will be many others coming by shortly to offer their insight!

--The Mods

Dear Shikari.....there is still too much dubious information out there.  I am so sorry as a lot of BC patients are scared out of their wits needlessly.  I am saying this after a marvelous dinner of chicken francese, fresh vegetables, and wine.

The two articles you should read are:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-57579167/moderate-drinking-may-increase-breast-cancer-survival-rates/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9659168/Glass-of-wine-a-day-fights-breast-cancer.html

Even with the 2009 study, overall survival was unchanged, drinkers vs non drinkers.  Since wine is a life-giving force in my life, I decided to continue enjoying one of life's great pleasures.

The earlier studies didn't segment the data correctly (in my opinion) nor were there enough ER+ women taking anti-hormonals.

BTW - if all this were true, there would be alarming recurrence rates among women in Italy, Germany, France, Greece, and Spain.  This just isn't the case.

Anyway, I have created major havoc by giving my breast surgeon a splendid bottle of wine each Christmas.  (None of her colleagues rate this way.)  And by hanging out at the wine bar, I started running.  Both good things.

Good luck, and do try some amazing wine.  The lesson in all this is drink QUALITY and forget the rest.

Focus on the important things.....such as exercise.  Good luck and salut! - Claire

Firstly, alcohol is most associated with ILC which I have but you do not.  Secondly, my onc does not encourage me to be teetotal. (He is very experienced). Thirdly, hormone treatments counteracts the effects of alcohol in elevating estrogen.

I hope this advice helps you to take a reasonable approach.

i have found my MO's to be non-commital on the subject.  The nutritionist at the cancer ctr told me "in moderation" and no more than a drink per day (which is way more than i would ever have).  The one thing she did tell me is that you cant combine, meaning if you didnt drink all week then its not ok to binge drink on the weekend.  Im italian, im not giving up my red wine which is basically the only thing i drink - so i limit it to a glass with dinner on the weekends

I've always felt it was something that I had introduced new to my environment the previous two years before my bc diagnosis.  I don't know why I picked two years as a reference point.

In the previous two years, I had started drinking coffee, increased diet coke consumption, increased alcohol consumption, starting eating a lot of turkey meat, a lot of rice, a lot of those microwavable veggies, and had a lot of stress by taking on too many clients with my job.

Since my bc diagnosis, I have cut out several things cold turkey:  coffee, diet coke, and no more alcohol. I thought I would have a cold beer or champagne to celebrate each milestone, but everytime one approaches, I just don't want to chance it.  I'm okay without it, even though I thought it would be a much bigger deal.  The diet coke, coffee and alcohol came as surprisingly easy to give up.  I also won't eat turkey meat anymore.  I eat only fish and chicken.  No more microwave on anything, and who knows ... it could have been those plastic bags the veggies came in.  Maybe when they get heated the bag leaches a chemical?  I only use raw fresh vegetables now, and steam them on the stove. 

I do understand when people say "we should enjoy life", etc.  But for me, the stress of not enjoying something I was about to potentially consume outweighed the pleasure of what I would get from these items, so I haven't felt deprived at all in these areas. Some things were just simple to say 'no' to.  I didn't really even spend time researching the alcohol thing.  I just read a few posts that said it should be limited or avoided, and I did it, and just took that at face value. Even though, like Claire mentioned, if alcohol was a trigger for bc or recurrence, you would think the numbers would be even more staggering.

The area that has been the hardest for me, is giving up sugar, sweets, etc.  Having had a TNBC diagnosis, low fat, and no sugar is a very valuable goal to have, so I do actively pursue this each day, but I do feel deprived that I can't eat the things I really want.  I have found a few things that help:

I drink green tea during the day, and have found Trader Joe's Animal Crackers - low sugar, extremely low fat, and 15 of them is one serving.  So I sprinkle them throughout the day.  Sometimes as a treat, I'll have one square or Trader Joe's Dark Chocolate, and 12 squares are one bar.  A bar will last me about 2 weeks. To me, that is a big accomplishment.  I used to be able to eat a whole package of Oreo Cookies in a matter of 3 days! 

It's naturally hard to give up things that we have been eating our whole lives.  Pick the items that you can give up easily, and get rid of those and figure out which ones you want to keep, and then keep those in moderation.  Everything else that falls in the middle, you can work on giving those up one at a time, and replacing with something healthier. 

I think the truth is, nobody knows how we got it, or what will cause it to come back. I don't drink at all, but I got BC.

The studies on alcohol are all based on outcome - not actual understanding of how alcohol impacts cancer. For example, people who drink more are around smoke more. People who drink more tend to eat less healthy diets and exercise less. So, is it really the alcohol or other factors. They don't know. I'm taking the moderate perspective. I love wine. Over the weekend I had one glass of white, one glass of red, and a few sips of saki. I didn't go crazy and I have cut my consumption by more than 50% since diagnosis. I agree that if wine were a major factor than europeans would have a higher recurrence rate. I wish we knew the magic answers.

My MO, whom I saw earlier this month, asked me about my alcohol consumption. I told her I usually have a glass of wine while I'm making dinner and then one with dinner. She told me to cut back to one glass per day. She said they were seeing some evidence that there was a connection between alcohol consumption and recurrence. Nothing more detailed or substantial than that. 

Ann

My D3 levels were seriously low, and so I've also been sure to take a D supplement.  I was at a 12, which is extremely deficient, and now I'm at 45.  But I do need to aim for natural sun more as well.

Claire in Seattle has helped me be reasonable about this.  Here is my perspective.

I was diagnosed young at 39.  I have extremely dense and lumpy breasts, no children, and lived on stress.  An understatement, really.  I got tenure doing it.  I drank mostly when I was working out of the country, and I enjoyed.  Sometimes 3 drinks in an evening, but not every night.  I even smoked sometimes with friends, but so does everyone there.

The truth is, no one really knows what causes cancer.  They have a hunch.  In my case, the studies will probably show that my combination of dense breasts, growing up in the worst toxic landfill (many women got cancer, there have even been lawsuits) and a variety of other issues caused my cancer.  I personally don't buy into the stress argument.  Let's face it, all of us are under stress.  A parent dies, kids get sick, jobs are lost.  Sure, some of us are under more, but it's the modern world.  If stress caused cancer, we'd be dropping like flies. 

Similarly, I agree, if wine were a major culprit, god help all Europeans.  My friends drink with gusto, and many of them are over 70.  However, I think that since our bodies have already exhibited the faulty genes or signals to make cancer, we can't compare ourselves to women who never had cancer to begin with.  What that actually means pends better investigation.  And it means that maybe I need to be more careful of stress as well.

I asked my onc, what's the best way for me to stay cancer free.  She said keep the D in range, don't binge drink (in fact, this really seems to be more the issue for a lot of health issues), and exercise.

I also think life is meant to be lived, and you better believe I had a rockin' good time at a wine tasting in the Republic of Georgia, where they make a wine seen nowhere else in the world.  There is a great propensity for cancer survivors to go all religious on diet and supplements.  We all want control.  One person made a comment to me once, "The diet won't save you." I think there is some truth in that.  Women who do everything "right" recur all the time, women who don't, don't.  If I had a dime for every chain smoking drunk I know in Europe...well, I'd be rich.  And they are 30 years older than me.

Point being, keep it all in perspective.

LtotheK - great post - completely agree. If wine was the culprit all my relatives in europe would be dropping like flies, they drink at EVERY meal - and yet I was the only one going back 2 generations who got BC.  Cant say what happened 3 generations ago because the medical records are somewhat sketchy and at this point I am relying on the memory of 80 yr olds! 

the control issue is dead on - i think a lot of women give it up cold turkey because of the element of control (and take tons of supplements/change diets etc)  I always laugh when im told that so and so did this and her cancer didnt come back...wasnt going to come back anyway in my opinion.