ADH in both breast..but still have more lumps
Hello all!
Well...I'm back! Something has been sitting funny with me. I'm not paniced or anything but extremely curious. To give a little background just in case, in 2010 I had a FNA but the sample was not tested. In April, the lump had returned and it was bothering me so I went to the family doctor and the doctor then located seven lumps (in total) in both of my breast. I was then refered to a surgeon. The surgeon only focased on one lump in each breast. I had a vacc biopsy in june. Results were ADH in both breasts. I have two aunts on my father's side who had breast cancer, both dx before they were 50 (ages 22 for one and 46 for the other (she did not survive) ) and I now have a cousin (on same side of family) dx with bc at age 42. I then had a excision biopsy on the 1st of this month. The results from that as well says: "Atypical ductal hyperplasia, right breast upper outer quadrant. Atypical ductal hyperplasia, left breast upper inner quadrant".
So, I was explained that I'm okay and I took that as that. Moved on my merry way but then I realized, "Hey, there are five more lumps inside me!" So for the fifth or sixth time I voiced to my surgeon my concern. After what felt like me begging, he advised he will set me up for a MRI, which I'm fine with, but what sitting weird with me is, knowing that I have ADH in four samples taken from my body, why weren't the other lumps checked? Is this normal practice? I've been scheduled for the genetic testing next week, but I'm mostly concerned with the nonchelaunt attitude I had been given by the doc in 2010 and then the remaining lumps still resting in my breasts here in 2013.
Again I'm not panicing, I'm just a little "Hey, are you giving me the best care" curious.
Comments
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You have been vigilant and no cancer has been detected. Time to trust your doctor and relax. Breast cancer isn't difficult to diagnose, right?
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I apologize. I was too blasé. My first breast cancer was idc with LCIS and ADH detected. Complicated cysts after that. Then calcifications that turned to be ILC. My doctors were able to tell me what was trouble and what was not, so i got between 40 and 54 without freaking. I think it is crucial for high risk women to find a team to trust so you can enjoy being well.
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If you actually have other palpable lumps, they should be investigated. The MRI sounds like a good idea. If the MRI doesn't settle the issue, get a second opinion. The other side of the coin is that many breasts have lumps that surgeons can tell are likely not to be cancer. Did they see anything on mammo or sono imaging? It's good you are getting the brca testing. Obviously, if you turn out to be BRCA positive, it's a whole other ball game. Can the aunt and/or the cousin be tested first for the brca genes? If either of them are positive for brca, they can zero in on their mutation first. If you are positive, then they don't usually test further, but if you are negative for that mutation they would do the entire panel. If you aren't brca positive, you have increased risk with the ADH, but nowhere near as great is with the BRCA. At the same time, you should be followed by a program for high risk women. I had ADH and then 17 years later was diagnosed with DCIS (and only DCIS), after a stereotactic core biopsy showed ADH again, and the excisional biopsy showed DCIS. Best of luck to you.
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Thank you Ballet12. I was thinking that the others should have been investigated because the whole time i was saying "what about the others..what about the others" and it just didn't feel like the doc was listening. The pathology report mentioned calcifications and I'm not concerned because he's not concerned. But then again he didn't care in the first place back in 2010 when the sample was tossed in the trash instead of tested (on the ultrasound back then, the radiologist even said the mass was oddly shaped..but only that one was scanned) they didn't care, so i didn't. That was then and this is now and I'm more educated and kind of upset with that instance. But I digress. The only test that the other lumps went through was the clinical b.e. and the mamo was clear (didn't even show the lumps that were removed) and the sono picked up the ones that were removed because they were the only ones scanned. see what i'm saying. what sits with me odd even more is when i had the first consult (informing results of the first biopsy) the surgeon stated that it would be a possibility that cancer MIGHT be around the areas of where the ADH was found...HELLO i have more lumps.......
My aunt refuses to take the BRCA test as she said she doesn't want to find out anything (my other aunts, her sisters of course refuses to even have breast examinations!) I can talk to my cousin but she is in stage 4 and is very very ill. So the moral to this part of the story is more than likely i'm on my own.
Sad thing about it when it comes to my doctor, he hasn't even referred me to a program for high risk women. see what i mean that this doctor is nonchalant? I am calling the Brown Cancer Center today for setting up an appointment with a second opinion as I has stated in the first post, I'm not sure I am receiving proper care knowing other masses are still there and have not been checked at all.
MegN, seems like you had or have a doctor that was very thorough and really cared to inform you what was going on. Me, unfortunately, I do not. I'm 38 and don't know whats going on with anything so I'm kinda sorta researching things on my own. You know...the more and more I type, the more I realize that I'm not feeling as if I trust my doctor...that's not good. Yeah I'm going to the cancer center for reassurance. I know ADH is nothing to worry about but I also know it's nothing to brush under the rug completely.
Thanks ladies
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Sunnyat--About the ultrasound imaging, they do the entire breast, not just looking for discrete lumps. That's the way ultrasound works. So, they biopsied the ones that were seen on ultrasound and the other lumps weren't. At the same time, if lumps are suspicious, they can biopsy the lump directly if it's palpable/felt on the surface. It certainly helps if they can see it on imaging. It is good that you are going for a second opinion. You need to know if it's that you have lumpy breasts or these are lumps to be investigated. Did you have an excisional biopsy of the area found to have ADH or was it a stereotactic core biopsy? If they did the excisional biopsy, then they did what they could do to see if cancer is nearby. The excisional biopsy is usually a large area.
Sorry about your family situation. Hopefully you will be able to get the BRCA testing, but also realize that if you don't have anyone in your immediate family (mother, grandmother), the family history may not be as strong as it seems. The geneticist will cover these issues with you, and you might feel better about your chances. If you are BRCA positive, then you need to take some active steps. If you are BRCA negative, you need the high risk surveillance and possibly hormonals (tamoxifen). Best of luck. Don't be scared of the ADH unless you need to be (i.e. brca positive). If Brown has a high risk surveillance program, and I were you, I'd jump on it.
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Sunnyat, from Brown's website they look wonderful. Excellent decision to get another opinion from a cancer center. Keep us posted.
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Sunnyat112, I agree with the posters above and want to add that while you are expressing disappointment in your current doctor, and I don't blame you/I agree, one thing I have learned the HARD way is that one must really be proactive when it comes to treatment and care. You cannot sit back, unfortunately, and depend upon the doctors to make the best decisions for you. You must make the best decisions for you. Hopefully, the doctors have great skill and knowledge and experience to add to the mix. But sometimes, they don't. It sounds lke yours is lacking in some area, and you are being proactive to get the attention you need.
Frankly, not sure how to put this but re "second opinion": there are opinions, and then there are better opinions. In my experience, you DO need serious monitoring for ADH diagnosis. Add in the specter of your family history. Which has not shown a first degree relative YET, but has shown enough to be of concern that there may be a genetic component regardless of BRCA. Most bcs you know are not BRCA, and often there is a genetic component while a family with history tests negative. That said, however, even if you do have some non-brca (or brca) family history, your father may not have inherited this gene as he is (so far) unscathed.
But back to the ADH alone: your risk is elevated and you need to be monitored with something in addition to mammogram. Mammograms are notoriously unreliable, particularly with younger women/women with dense breasts (rating of 3 or 4). I will quote Dr Larry Norton of Memorial Sloan Kettering: mammography "at best" identifies 80% of breast cancers. That's 1 out of 5 it misses!! (Watch his videos on the mskcc website for yourself.) You should receive at least one sonogram a year in addition to your mammogram. An MRI is even better. But a sonogram, AT LEAST.
Even if you have no lumps....
In my 40s I had ADH and then, after benign/ADH palpable lump removed, cancer grew in the contralateral breast undetected by mammogram, and not palpable. It wasn't until luckily I was given an MRI (part of 'high risk' surveillance program that my original breast surgeon refused to put me in for a couple of years, arguing my risk was only "medium", not "high", and that my familial breast cancer, having not affected my mother, did not make me 'high' risk...). The cancerous lump, over 2 cm, was not palpable nor on a mammogram. If not for the MRI, lord only knows how much longer it would have been before it was detected. The sonogram saw what the MRI saw.
By all means, seek your second opinion at the cancer center. Hopefully, the breast surgeon at that cancer center will have a better 'second' opinion than my original BS at a top national cancer center had....will not only biopsy lumps, but will see to it that you receive a sonogram if not an MRI to get a better look at your breasts. Or at least will educate you fully about this aspect! And then, have you back for regular imaging in addition to the mammogram...or recommend a more local radiology place for you to regularly get this done. That is the standard of care that you must seek for yourself at a minimum. Best wishes to you
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PS AFter they check out your current lumps and find likely that they are benign, for ongoing screening care the center you go to may not routinely perform sonograms or MRIs to screen for bc. Therefore, because they don't screen routinely using those modalities, they may not recommend it. But that won't mean you shouldn't do it, elsewhere! That's what I mean by doing what you know you need to do rather than just listening to what "they" "the expert" "second opinion" says. ! Sorry that my own bad experience I want to save you from has turned me into a too strongly opinionated person on this issue! Unfortunately, I second guess so much now.
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Good recommendations, Jessica. I go to that famous national cancer center you are referring to. I had to ask for routine sonos as part of screening, and I've gotten them, and without any fight, but it wouldn't have been routine without my asking. I will not be getting MRI's routinely. Maybe I can push for that every few years.
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I think nci cancer centers follow nccn guidelines for follow up of precancerous or high risk conditions, don't they? Each doctor doesn't make it up as they go along.
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ballet---I have the opposite situation: I have yearly MRIs alternating with mammos by 6 months; but they won't give me US as a routine, unless something suspicious. I really would like to add US to my high risk surveillance schedule.
Anne
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Hi MegN, you would think that were true (following NCCN guidelines), but a recent survey of posters on this discussion board for follow-up mainly of DCIS, found a wide range of different protocols. Basically, I would have been on yearly mammos (no 6 month follow-up except for problems, and so far I have had issues) and no MRI's. I asked for sonos because of dense breasts, but after I left the surgeon's office to schedule, the mammo was listed but not the sono, so the scheduler called back and got the OK, for this year, which I already had, and for next year. I was told by the rad onc resident that it's good I'm getting the sonos because so far I'm very squeamish about taking the AI's. I was told that the mammos are good for picking up calcs and the sonos are good for picking up small solid tumors. Glad I'm doing both.
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Hi yall just had to take a couple days break from thinking about this. When i camr back i see quite a few responses. I give my sample.for the geneyic testing this coming friday. When i had the ultrasound done, the wand only touched the areas where i had surgeries on. Are you telling me those two areas checked my whole breast? If so good because that would explain a lot. I hope thats the case but i dont see how if the wand was scanning the 11 o'clock position, how it could scan the 6 o'clock position without being touched. Oh well guess it will become moot when the mri is done in a couple weeks! Im kinda dealing
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Hi Sunny, I'm not an ultrasound tech, but the imaging is based on sound waves bouncing off of the deep tissue. It doesn't matter where the wand actually touches the skin, it's how the technician angles it to go to different areas. Very often they press down in one spot and then circle around, but they are looking at many different areas. So, it's not an anatomical one-to-one between where they touch and what they are looking at. They could touch at 11 o'clock and be looking at 6 o'clock. I hope someone who has technical background in this chimes in. They need to look at the whole breast to be sure they pick up those shadows. If the MRI doesn't find anything else (which I hope it doesn't--especially false positives that'll make you crazy), then you will need to be followed very carefully and possibly take hormonal therapy (Tamox or AI's depending on your age and situation). If you don't have faith in this team, go somewhere else, or find a high risk surveillance clinic, as we discussed before. I'm hoping all is well, just don't be surprised if they find something that needs to be investigated. MRI's are very sensitive. They pick up dangerous stuff and lots of other stuff that turns out to be benign. Best of luck.
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Hi all. Just wanted to give an update. I don't have anyone to talk to or understand so i use this forum to talk. Well..here it goes. As mentioned before i have other lumps in both of my breasts but the
Biopsies were only on on one in each breasts. Well i went to the surgeon for follow up on July 23rd. There he said he would schedule me for a mri. To make a long story short, he never did...even though the three times i called, the office each time said, oh your not on the list for scheduling, we will call you tomorrow with an appointment. Well they never called and i got frustrated. I called my general practice dr and they weren't too thrilled with my treatment and they scheduled me to come in the next day (August 22nd). Later that day, i got a call from the dna counselor (i knew she was calling) and she explained the results were negative for gene 1 and vus for gene 2. I go to my gp dr yesterday and i asked about the ultrasound scans on one spot on each breast. Lo and behold i saw fire in her eyes i kid you not! She flips through my files and said..i have down areas 10 o clock, 11 o clock, 7 o clock right and 10 o clock, 6 o clock ( and two more positions i don't remember). She says they should have scanned entire breast and they didn't. I asked her if it were true that if adh could mean something harmful is close by. She said well we wouldnt know because they all weremt tested! Sooo...she wasnt happy. Then we discussed the mri situation...she sai, i got this. Got a call today...im now scheduled for my mri next week. Urgh! If and this is a big if...if i have to have another biopsy..guess what breast surgeon i will NOT return to... -
oh wow just going through some old posts and i see this one needs an update. i did get a third opinion with a cancer center and it was discussed that a pbmx is the best option for me due to all circumstances. -
Sunnyat 12, I will keep you in my prayers. Please let us know what your status is when you can! ADH May not be something some worry about but I have such a long history of breast problems my dx of ADH seems to concern me at times.
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I certainly will momcat. i have the the double mastectomy thursday the 24th. the reconstruction is immediate with nipple tatooinh eventually. results from the biopsy should be in about a week. lots of lumps to look at from what ive been told
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*tattooing
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I will be thinking about you, Sunnyat 12! Prayers for a quick recovery, too.
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thinking about you today Sunny!
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