Breast Thermography

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  • brengoldie
    brengoldie Member Posts: 1
    edited July 2013

    What i don't understand is if thermography shows something earlier.. too early for mammogram to pick up.. why do they send you to get a mammogram when they get your thermography results back?

  • Moderators
    Moderators Member Posts: 25,912
    edited July 2013

    This article may be helpful with this quesiton, brengoldie.

    http://www.breastcancer.org/research-news/20110603b

    FDA Says Thermography Shouldn’t Be Substituted for Mammograms

    Published on June 3, 2011 at 12:00 am

    Last modified on May 3, 2013 at 1:50 pm


    In June 2011, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) warned doctors that thermography shouldn't be a substitute for mammograms and other proven breast imaging technology for screening and diagnosing breast cancer.

    Thermography, also called thermal imaging, uses an infrared camera to make images of the amount of blood flow and heat in tissue near the breast surface.

    Thermography is based on two ideas:

    • Because cancer cells are growing and multiplying very fast, blood flow and metabolism are higher in a cancer tumor.
    • As blood flow and metabolism increase, skin temperature goes up.

    In the 1980s, the FDA approved using thermography to get more information about breast cancers that had already been diagnosed with a mammogram or other traditional technology. Thermography was never approved to be used as a substitute for mammograms or other breast cancer screening tests.

    No study has shown that thermography is a good screening tool to detect breast cancer early, when the cancer is most treatable. Thermography can't find cancers that are deeper in the breast and can't detect small cancers. Still, a number of doctors around the United States have been promoting thermography as a good or even better alternative to mammograms for breast cancer screening and diagnosis.

    The FDA warning about thermography is not related to any safety concerns about thermographic devices. Thermography may help doctors get more information about a breast cancer that has already been diagnosed. But thermography should NOT be used as an alternative to regular mammograms for breast cancer screening.

    You can learn more about the tests doctors can use for breast cancer screening, diagnosis, and monitoring in the Breastcancer.org Screening and Testing section.

  • indaylovey
    indaylovey Member Posts: 1
    edited July 2013

    so sorry to hear that all. My aunt just had a chemotherapy and yes we are so optimistic that she's going to recover soon and yes I am praying a lot for her recovery.

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited November 2013


    Although I believe it is risky, I would never give up yearly mammograms because that is how my BC was diagnosed. I do alternate with thermography in hopes that it might pick up something prior to it showing up on a mammo.

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited November 2013


    Read this today:


    Thermography for breast cancer screening: Where is the evidence?


    JENNIFER GUNTER, MD | CONDITIONS | NOVEMBER 1, 2013



    http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2013/11/thermography-breast-cancer-screening-evidence.html


  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited November 2013


    Melissa, thanks for posting. I had read something similar a while back, when I had gone researching on this topic. Apparently the evidence just is not there.

  • abigail48
    abigail48 Member Posts: 1,699
    edited November 2013


    what are the differences in financial cost?

  • MelissaDallas
    MelissaDallas Member Posts: 7,268
    edited November 2013


    Why would the difference in cost be relevant if the testing is proven to be ineffective and irrelevant? Paying anything for a worthless test sounds really expensive to me.

  • DiveCat
    DiveCat Member Posts: 968
    edited November 2013


    I get a bit flinchy when I see people relying only on thermography alone. It may pick up some higher blood activity for benign conditions or benign changes (false positives) or may pick up some cancers very close to skin...but it is not reliable for detecting cancers deeper in breast, small cancers, or precancerous conditions. There were a couple clinics in my area (alternative therapy clinics) that offered breast thermography until Health Canada issued public advisories and such a year or so ago. I know several provincial health ministers issued cease and desist letters but clinics offering breast thermography are still around in a few places.


    Today's digitial mammograms have very low levels of radiation (you get more exposure flying in a plane!) and unless you are starting mammos before 30 (as some of us higher risk people do) the lifetime exposure is low and benefits outweigh risks, or, you can at least ask for ultrasounds if you are concered about the low radiation levels in mammograms. Ultrasounds are much more effective than thermography, and is a proven and accepted screening method. Ultrasounds are also often used in screening younger high risk women under 30 and those women at any age with dense breast tissue.

  • momoschki
    momoschki Member Posts: 682
    edited November 2013

    My gyno got a thermography machine a couple of years ago, promising "state of the art technology" in breast care for her patients. This was before I knew much about it, so I complied and had it done. Unfortunately, she didn't seem to have much of an idea of how to read it (problematic, to say the least), and when I later asked my onc and BS their opinions of thermography's diagnostic value, they both dismissed it. I think sadly my gyno was hoping this could be some kind of cash cow for her, but I now refuse it.
  • flaviarose
    flaviarose Member Posts: 442
    edited December 2013

    Just to share my own situation - I had a thermogram, which came back showing no cancer - and my doc said that I should have a mammogram too - that was the standard - have both, and then you don't need the mammograms as often - well I had the mammogram that showed cancer.  Had I relied on the thermogram, I wouldn't have been diagnosed as early.

  • Blessings2011
    Blessings2011 Member Posts: 4,276
    edited December 2013

    My DIL, who posts every article she finds on alternative therapies, just posted an article on her Facebook page on Thermography.

    She also posted about how she will NEVER have another mammogram (she's in her mid 40's), since Thermography is so much safer (and since mammograms cause cancer!!!!!!!)....

    I tried to be gentle when I posted back, pointing out that Thermography has been shown time and time again to miss cancers that other diagnostic tools pick up. I think that the last study showed that it picked up 38% of cancers, where mammograms picked up more than 80% of cancers. 

    Thermography was never, ever designed to be used solely as a screening tool, but rather in conjunction with other, more traditional diagnostic procedures including ultrasounds.

    (And I can't believe she posts these things knowing how I feel and what I've been through!)

    I absolutely believe in Alternative and Complementary therapies, and I do try to always keep an open mind, but not when there is such evidence to the contrary. 

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2013

    Thermography might be able to diagnose some very early stage cancers where mammo could not, but should never be used as a replacement for the yearly mammo screening.  It's how my cancer was found.  I try to alternate every six months between thermography and mammo.

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited December 2013


    Kaara - That is very interesting. I used to get them along with other screening. How large was your tumor? You are the first person I've heard of diagnosed with a thermo.

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited December 2013

    Blessings - I have tried to find that "how effective is " number for mammos and MRIs, but can find little published info. We asked a GC outright, but still got a vague answer. I'm not really sure anyone wants to commit to a %. If you know of any published studies, I'd be very interested in seeing them.Nerdy

  • DiveCat
    DiveCat Member Posts: 968
    edited December 2013

    lucy,

    This was on high risk women with genetic disposition or family history, but may be of some help in that it compares the sensitivity and specificity of MRIs versus mammograms: 

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa031759#t=articleDiscussion


    In this prospective study, we compared the efficacy of mammographic and MRI screening for breast cancer in women with a family history of the disease or a genetic predisposition to breast cancer. Among the women examined by both methods at the same screening visit, we detected 45 breast cancers (including 6 ductal carcinomas in situ): 32 by MRI (sensitivity, 71.1 percent) and 18 by mammography (40.0 percent); five other patients were excluded from this comparison for various reasons (Table 3). Thus, the sensitivity of MRI was higher than that of mammography, but both the specificity and positive predictive value of MRI were lower.

    In our sensitivity and specificity calculations, we defined lesions that were in BI-RADS category 3 and higher as positive, but most other authors have included in their calculations only lesions in BI-RADS categories 4 and 5 as positive.21,33,34 If we had followed that policy, the sensitivity would have been 24.4 percent for mammography and 46.6 percent for MRI, in accord with the higher sensitivity previously reported for MRI.21,33,35,36 However, the previous studies enrolled small groups of women, included some retrospective data,35 evaluated heterogeneous groups that included women with previous breast cancers,21,33,36 or had a plan for follow-up after a suspicious finding on MRI that differed from the follow-up plan for a suspicious mammographic finding.33 All these factors might have artificially increased the sensitivity of MRI. We also investigated sensitivity in relation to specificity as determined by ROC curves, showing that the area under the curve was significantly higher for MRI than for mammography; this means that MRI screening could better discriminate between malignant and benign cases.

    When we included only invasive breast cancers, the difference between the sensitivity of the MRI and mammography (79.5 percent vs. 33.3 percent) was even greater than the difference overall (71.1 percent vs. 40.0 percent). MRI detected 20 cancers (including 1 ductal carcinoma in situ) that were not found by mammography or clinical breast examination. The stage of these 20 cancers was favorable; 11 of the 19 invasive tumors were smaller than 10 mm, and only 1 was associated with a positive node.

    Another important matter that we addressed was the best method for detecting carcinoma in situ. Our study showed that mammography had a higher sensitivity than MRI for detecting ductal carcinoma in situ: 83 percent (five out of six cancers detected), as compared with 17 percent (one out of six) for MRI (P=0.22).


    Found this, too: http://www.cadth.ca/media/pdf/I3010_MRI-Breast-Cancer_tr_e.pdf

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited December 2013


    Wow Divecat! Thanks so much! Those are excellent studies. The only other study I read was around 65% mammo, 90% MRI, depending on breast density. I know I was under the impression in all my years of screening that if something was there the screening would find it. T'ain't necessarily so.

    I had to look up sensitivity vs specificity. Still trying to wrap my brain around that. Thanks again.

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2013

    farmerlucydaisy:  You misunderstood (perhaps I didn't explain it properly)  I was diag with a mammogram...not a thermo, which is why I would always continue to have at least one mammo yearly, alternating with thermo.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited December 2013


    Kaara - gotcha - I'll blame my scattered brain on Tamoxifen. SillyHeartThanks for the clarification. I've never actually have heard of a thermogram picking up anything, but if someone out there knows differently, I'd be interested to hear.

  • Momine
    Momine Member Posts: 7,859
    edited December 2013

    Farmerlucy, my understanding is that it can only pick up things that are close to the skin/surface.

  • farmerlucy
    farmerlucy Member Posts: 3,985
    edited December 2013


    Momine - Makes sense, since I guess the point is once they put you in the chiller room, only the cancer is supposed to show white/hot.

  • Shira
    Shira Member Posts: 64
    edited February 2014

    I had a different kind of Thermography last week, European Thermography. It was done with a wand and took readings two times at 100 points in the body, once at normal temperature and another after I stood in a slightly chilly room.

    Anyway, it tested reaction before and after and showed blocked and/ or inflamed areas. Seems like it's most helpful for finding health issues overall rather than catching breast cancer specifically.

    I still have to meet with a natural doc that can help me better understand the results, but it seems like it will be useful information.

    Has anyone else had this type of Thermography?

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