How long do I REALLY have to avoid drawing blood on one side?
I am 5 years out of treatment (HOORAY!). I don't know about you guys, but the veins in my chemo arm (right arm) are completely fried. As a result, whenever I have to have blood drawn, it is extremely painful. Yet according to what I was told when I got lymph nodes out of my left arm, I can never, ever get blood drawn from the left side again, or I risk lymphedema. Yet that's where all the good veins are.
So I'm wondering, have any of you been told any differently? Or, have any of you gotten lymphedema as a result of using the node-biopsied arm for a blood draw?
Comments
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I was told the same thing and also told not to take my BP on that side. This was in 1982 and after a few years I just forgot. So since the late 80's I have had blood drawn and pressure taken on either arm. I was lucky that I never got lymphedema.
Don't know what the current opinion is on this though - so better ask your physician.
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Since lymphedema is a life long risk, I am under the impression that you can never use that arm for blood draws or blood pressure. I have a port, so I have been able to preserve the veins in my "good" arm. I know that people use other vein areas for blood draws and IV's such as the lower legs. I don't know if the risk of LE diminishes as the years pass but I have heard of people developing it years after the fact while others never do. I hope someone who knows more about assessing the risk for LE will post soon.
Caryn
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sdstarfish. Sorry your running out of armspace. You should never have a blood draw in you LE arm ever. That includes blood pressure also. Have your blood drawn from your foot or ankle. You have to have someone experienced to do this so ask for the lab tech that is the best at this. Some labs won't do it so phone first. Your hospital will, but have "foot draw" on your requistion form.
I sometimes ask for a hot wet towel to get the veins up and I rub my veins just before the footdraw. This helps get a vein up if you are tiny veined or have runaway veins like me. Some take a aspirin. Some techs get a vein right away and if you remember which one then ask for her next time. I think some girls get draws in their neck, Please let us know if you are one of these girls.
Yes people get LE from needles and BP done on LE arms. You are at life for risk. Don't let anyone talk you into using your LE arm. Some docs etc are not LE educated and will try and convince you that it is OK. IT IS NO OK.
So glad you came onto the boards. Visit stepup-speakout.org the website some of the girls here created for all your LE needs. Make sure you know Celllulitis signs in your trunk/breast and arm/hand of involved LE body quadrant which can spread fast and need IV anitbiotics quickly to halt progressing into serious illness.
Plus we are here to answer ANY question.
It is travel season so watch for bugbites and do consider a glove or gauntlet with a sleeve for flying. Make sure you are fitted right and try it out a few days before flying to get use to it if you get compression stuff. Have an anitbiotic creme with you incase you get bug bites. Pak oral antibiotics if you get a cellulitis flare and start these if you can't get to emergency quickly. All this will ensure you having a safe trip. Don't want to scare you just want you educated if you are not yet.Take care and I am so glad you asked the question. Do visit and post as you are welcome here to rant, rave, or even help us with ideas that we may be able to improve with our LE.
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I agree with the others was told no blood draws nor blood pressure on that side.
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Yes, I thought it was a lifetime risk. Of course, you will hear anecdotes about people using their at risk arm for blood draws and BP and not developing LE but since there is no way to predict who will or won't develop it, you need to decide if this is a risk you want to take. BC is enough for me, so I, personally, will not take the risk.
Caryn
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Sd - if you don't have LE now, you really don't want to tempt fate at this point by allowing sticks on your at risk side. Yes, you may get away with it for years. Or you may trigger LE. And once you get LE, it's for a lifetime.
Like you, I am also 5 years out and the veins in my non-affected arm are fried. It is very painful getting a blood draw. Hugz has some great tips - applying a warm towel on the arm has been very useful for me. Drink plenty of fluid in the hours before a blood draw to plump up the veins. Ask them if they can use a child's size butterfly needle - those have worked well for me. Also, techs get exactly 2 attempts on me. If they don't get a vein after two attempts, I politely but firmly ask for the most experienced tech who is the best at getting blood from patients with bad veins.
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Thanks, everyone. I appreciate the feedback. I know plenty of things about anti-inflammation foods, but not much about preventing it in the first place. I have tried drinking tons of water before draws, but that has never helped me.
So with the warm towel - do I bring one of my own?
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sdstarfish heres some other ideas. I sometimes use a hot water bottle, or a wheatbag. Also I crank the heater up in the car and put it on the "foot" setting. My "good" arm veins are had it as well.
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Ooh, the hot water bottle makes perfect sense. Thx.
What's a wheat bag?
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"What's a wheat bag?"
A bag full of wheat....lol ... well, usually a bag sewn with 3 segments totalling about say 15"x 6", but other appropriate shapes are available I think too.
You put it in the microwave for a little while to heat it up. They effectively hold their heat for ages. People use them for aching muscles or joints. We should NOT use them where we have LE.
The normal precautions with things microwaved apply. You need to be careful not to burn yourself. WARNING: here in NZ we recently reportedly had someone's bed caught on fire because they must have heated it too much and put it in their bed to warm it up. Wheat bags that you buy are required to have "directions" on how long to heat them and other appropriate warnings.
That said, they are dead easy to make and a lot of people have done so including myself, but as long as the said precautions are followed there should be no dramas.
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Kiwi ingenuity, I'd say!
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Ask your dr.if they have a heating pad..works every time
And yes never get blood drawn in that arm...ever.
LE can become active after many yrs.and yes it is forever.
Try the I hate LE thread...lots of good info.
Good luck...LE suks. -
Kiwi ingenuity, I'd say!
Of course, LOL, We love the Number 8 wire approach over here.
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OK, Musical, you got me on that one. 'The Number 8 wire approach' -- a New Zealand expression that means what I might call making something out of bubble gum and baling wire?
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Wheat bag for a heating pad. What a great way for all those going gluten free, but still wanting to support wheat farmers. (From an ex wheat farmer going gluten free who feels I am deserting my heritage.)
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What about if you just had sentinal lymph nodes removed? My BS is fairly insistent that becuase I just had two nodes removed on the left and one on the right, I'm okay for blood draws or blood pressures on either arm. He has some other reasons for putting me in that category (normal weight, etc.). I'm nearly two years out and have not had any problems with lymphadema.
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Golden - your BS is wrong. There are many women who post here regularly who are normal weight and had "just" a SNB and who now have LE - I'm sure some of them will chime in.
Yes, your risk is lower than someone who is overweight and/or had more nodes removed, but you are still at risk. Your BS should not be minimizing your risk and giving you dangerous advice like that. Unfortunately, too many surgeons are woefully ignorant about LE, but instead of taking the time to educate themselves, they insist on passing along info that's incomplete, outdated, or just flat wrong. After all, they're not the ones who will have to live with LE for the rest of their lives when that advice is wrong - it's the patient who will have to live with LE for the rest of her life.
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Golden01, My SIL had only 1 lymph node removed, but had rads because of a lumpectomy. She developed trunkle LE very likey because of the rads. She was just a little overweight, but not much. It's not moved into her arm.
I had rads and 7 nodes removed and no LE. I am accident prone and have cats, so I consider myself at a moderate risk because of this.
I'm guessing you had an BMX because of nodes removed on both sides? Not sure how much MX adds to the risk.
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Golden, I had a single node removed on my left (cancer) side, and a prophylactic mastectomy on my right, with no nodes purposely removed, and I have bilateral lymphedema in arms, hands and chest. I'm small and slim, and I was in good shape physically before bc. There are many others here with similar stories. My left arm lymphedema was triggered by a plane trip, the right by a blood pressure taken on that arm. It's unfortunate that so many of our doctors have their heads in the sand on this issue, but in all fairness the subject isn't taught in our med schools (or nursing programs), and there are no questions regarding it on the licensure tests. So what little (mis)information they've picked up along the way is all they're going on.
Here's a page written FOR doctors, BY a doctor who has herself developed lymphedema after breast cancer. Like you, she had few nodes removed and was not by any means overweight. This page can be printed and given to your doctors, and there are research references there for them to follow for accuracy and varification.
http://www.stepup-speakout.org/essential informat for healthcare providers.htmI sure hope some of this helps you decide how you want to handle your very real risk, and I wish you no "swell" days, ever!
Be well,
Binney -
I caved and started using the node removal side for blood draws (no blood pressure). I was having to take Xanax before blood draws on the chemo side, because they were getting so awful. I have used that arm 3 times with no problems. So far, so good ...
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I had one sentinel lymph node removed and my MO says I don't have to worry about LE. But when I was in the hospital recently for something else the nurses would not take blood pressure readings on my BC side. But the lab techs drew blood from that side because the other side had an IV in that vein. I am getting the impression from reading this that I need to make sure that nothing is done on the BC side and to have blood drawn from the foot if that situation presents itself again. Better safe than sorry. Thank you for sharing all your hard-earned wisdom, ladies.
Corky
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Count me in for the LE after sentinel node experience. I was overweight, not obese, so a bit more at risk for that reason. Studies that show low or no risk after SNB tend to limit their patient follow-up to a year or less. So 'they' don't really know the true risk.
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I've ignored what the BS told me! Thanks for helping me know that I've been right.
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I only had the sentinel node on my right cancer side removed as well, and also have a tough time 4 years out with blood draws on my left arm as my veins are thread-like, but my onc also insists - never use the right arm for BP or bloodwork.
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I've gotten several beautiful medical ID bracelets at www.creativemedicalid.com
They give you information on how to measure & inscription suggestions for various medical conditions, mine says: "No IV, BP, needles in left arm"
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Haha Carol, ....bubble gum? who ever wouldve thought? the baling wire concept is always a goer though...
only it aint wire these days but twine.... still, theres something strangely satisfying in utilizing natural things instead using endless craptic plastic.
Well, as far as LE triggered on Prophy side, reckon Im the same as Binney...A BP cuff and a flippin tight one at that...Ugghh I still have a lump on my bicept as a result. My prophy arm basically bore the brunt of everything and is in some ways worse than my BC side.
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Anyone who has any questions should go on the site Binney posted.
also the I hate LE.
All questions will be answered....and they will right on the $$$$$$$.
good luck everyone
LE suks.
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I got a lymphodemia tag from the National Lymphodema Network and had a freind of mine make a beaded bracelet for it. I wear it everyday, it looks like a piece of jewlery. It states no needles into left arm. I also have a pink plastic one that I put with my drivers liscense incase something ever happens to me. Hopefully someone will pay attention if I need help.
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BTW, those bracelets are really cute, Ruth
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