New study finds LE is systemic
There are studies out there to indicate that the lymphatic pump can fail in other parts of the body than the affected arm--likely in some people, not all. I should have titled it LE CAN be systemic.
This is the latest study to document that the good arm can lymphatic pump failure, it's a free article to read:
here is the information on how to access the videos, let me know if there are any problems with them:
Here are the username and password for the cording videos,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22741072
Lymphatic abnormalities in the normal contralateral arms of subjects with breast cancer-related lymphedema as assessed by near-infrared fluorescent imaging.
Abstract
Current treatment of unilateral breast cancer-related lymphedema (BCRL) is only directed to the afflicted arm. Near-infrared fluorescent imaging (NIRF) of arm lymphatic vessel architecture and function in BCRL and control subjects revealed a trend of increased lymphatic abnormalities in both the afflicted and unafflicted arms with increasing time after lymphedema onset. These pilot results show that BCRL may progress to affect the clinically "normal" arm, and suggest that cancer-related lymphedema may become a systemic, rather than local, malady. These findings support further study to understand the etiology of cancer-related lymphedema and lead to better diagnostics and therapeutics directed to the systemic lymphatic system.
There have been other studies that have reached the same conclusion. AW Stanton published one.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19302022
Recent advances in breast cancer-related lymphedema of the arm: lymphatic pump failure and predisposing factors.
Source
Division of Cardiac & Vascular Sciences, Dermatology, St George's Hospital Medical School, University of London, London, United Kingdom.
Abstract
Axillary surgery for breast cancer may be followed, months to years later, by chronic arm lymphedema. A simple 'stopcock' mechanism (reduced lymph drainage from the entire limb through surviving lymphatics) does not explain many clinical aspects, including the delayed onset and selective sparing of some regions, e.g., hand. Quantitative lymphoscintigraphy reveals that lymph drainage is slowed in the subcutis, where most of the edema lies, and in the subfascial muscle compartment, which normally has much higher lymph flows than the subcutis. Although the muscle does not swell significantly, the impaired muscle drainage correlates with the severity of arm swelling, indicating a likely key role for muscle lymphatic function. A new method, lymphatic congestion lymphoscintigraphy, showed that the edema is associated with a reduced contractility of the arm lymphatics; the weaker the active lymphatic pump, the greater the swelling. Delayed lymphatic pump failure may result from chronic raised afterload, as in hypertensive cardiac failure, and may account for the delayed onset of swelling. A further novel finding is that lymph flow is raised in both the subcutis and muscle of both arms in postsurgical breast patients who later developed breast cancer-related lymphedema (BCRL), compared with patients who did not develop BCRL. This new observation indicates a predisposition to BCRL in some women. Further evidence for predisposing abnormalities is the finding of lymphatic abnormalities in the contralateral (nonswollen) arm in women with established BCRL. Such predisposing factors could explain why some women develop BCRL after sentinel node biopsy, whereas others do not after clearance surgery. Future research must focus on prospective observations made from before surgery until BCRL develops.
Comments
-
Thankyou Kira for posting this. I havent followed your links yet, but I can see right now, this is another article I will be taking to my LEist. Binney put me onto some links some time back which showed recent studies that the "other arm" was at risk for LE. It was extremely timely as I was able to show these to my BS when I was firm in my stance against having sticks in both arms.
In my case I have "suspected LE" in my non BC side, from my prophy mast. and/or because the hard time my non BC side arm got dealing Chemo bloodpressure Blood draws and EVERYTHING else.
With a prophy mast. we know that a few lymph nodes can still (inadvertantly) be taken. This is another thing that might just help tip the balance into the unfavourable bin.
-
Thanks from me as well kira!
I have had some achiness in my R arm, and refuse all BP and needle pricks ( Just today at my GYN!) drs look at me like I am crazy. After a recent blood test, I decided NOT to have the breast MRI <just had mammo 1st yesterday> solely because of the IV.
I feel like you have confirmed my concerns ( which isnt necessarily good :>)
THX -
Ooh yeah Purple they DO tend to look at you like youre crazy....don't you just love it when they do this? Huh and what for? to single you out enough to make you feel guilty so you'll give in to them? You stand your ground! If you don't want a stick then DONT. I think this issue is appalling when we have to "fight the doctors off" and some of us literally!
I don't ever want another MRI. The tracer dye gave me such a nasty rash in my "unaffected" arm I had to have a course of Prednisone to fix it Grrrrrr.
-
kira
May I ask your opinion about this :
A new method, lymphatic congestion lymphoscintigraphy, showed that the edema is associated with a reduced contractility of the arm lymphatics; the weaker the active lymphatic pump, the greater the swelling.Perhaps it is layperson ignornace, but when I see the term " reduced contractility" it does make me wonder if more of us should be wearing our compression garments sunup to sundown . Thoughts ?
*Edited to add:
Additionally, it raises some concern about MLD since the " good arm' may be pre-disposed and directing more fluid there just might overload and tax the system. Are these reasonable conclusions to consider, if not ' draw "? (Not that there is a darn thing we can do about it !) -
I have been wondering about this..I kind of think my normal arm looks puffy sometimes.
But it's TERRIFYING!
Do I start turning down blood draws. I just had some injections in my good arm for a shoulder problem.
Between this and the study showing younger women should have sx in 6 weeks...eeeeeek!!!!!!
-
Cookie, if you're doing MLD that directs the lymph to the "good" side, maybe talk to your therapist/doc about moving it south to your abdomen instead--with the proper abdominal node clearing, of course.
As for the shoulder problem, if you were having pain with that and the injections helped, then that's more likely to ease the LE problem than make it worse. Pain draws lymph fluid to the area, so relieving it calms things down.
Keep us posted!
Gentle hugs,
Binney
Categories
- All Categories
- 679 Advocacy and Fund-Raising
- 289 Advocacy
- 68 I've Donated to Breastcancer.org in honor of....
- Test
- 322 Walks, Runs and Fundraising Events for Breastcancer.org
- 5.6K Community Connections
- 282 Middle Age 40-60(ish) Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 53 Australians and New Zealanders Affected by Breast Cancer
- 208 Black Women or Men With Breast Cancer
- 684 Canadians Affected by Breast Cancer
- 1.5K Caring for Someone with Breast cancer
- 455 Caring for Someone with Stage IV or Mets
- 260 High Risk of Recurrence or Second Breast Cancer
- 22 International, Non-English Speakers With Breast Cancer
- 16 Latinas/Hispanics With Breast Cancer
- 189 LGBTQA+ With Breast Cancer
- 152 May Their Memory Live On
- 85 Member Matchup & Virtual Support Meetups
- 375 Members by Location
- 291 Older Than 60 Years Old With Breast Cancer
- 177 Singles With Breast Cancer
- 869 Young With Breast Cancer
- 50.4K Connecting With Others Who Have a Similar Diagnosis
- 204 Breast Cancer with Another Diagnosis or Comorbidity
- 4K DCIS (Ductal Carcinoma In Situ)
- 79 DCIS plus HER2-positive Microinvasion
- 529 Genetic Testing
- 2.2K HER2+ (Positive) Breast Cancer
- 1.5K IBC (Inflammatory Breast Cancer)
- 3.4K IDC (Invasive Ductal Carcinoma)
- 1.5K ILC (Invasive Lobular Carcinoma)
- 999 Just Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastasis
- 652 LCIS (Lobular Carcinoma In Situ)
- 193 Less Common Types of Breast Cancer
- 252 Male Breast Cancer
- 86 Mixed Type Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Not Diagnosed With a Recurrence or Metastases but Concerned
- 189 Palliative Therapy/Hospice Care
- 488 Second or Third Breast Cancer
- 1.2K Stage I Breast Cancer
- 313 Stage II Breast Cancer
- 3.8K Stage III Breast Cancer
- 2.5K Triple-Negative Breast Cancer
- 13.1K Day-to-Day Matters
- 132 All things COVID-19 or coronavirus
- 87 BCO Free-Cycle: Give or Trade Items Related to Breast Cancer
- 5.9K Clinical Trials, Research News, Podcasts, and Study Results
- 86 Coping with Holidays, Special Days and Anniversaries
- 828 Employment, Insurance, and Other Financial Issues
- 101 Family and Family Planning Matters
- Family Issues for Those Who Have Breast Cancer
- 26 Furry friends
- 1.8K Humor and Games
- 1.6K Mental Health: Because Cancer Doesn't Just Affect Your Breasts
- 706 Recipe Swap for Healthy Living
- 704 Recommend Your Resources
- 171 Sex & Relationship Matters
- 9 The Political Corner
- 874 Working on Your Fitness
- 4.5K Moving On & Finding Inspiration After Breast Cancer
- 394 Bonded by Breast Cancer
- 3.1K Life After Breast Cancer
- 806 Prayers and Spiritual Support
- 285 Who or What Inspires You?
- 28.7K Not Diagnosed But Concerned
- 1K Benign Breast Conditions
- 2.3K High Risk for Breast Cancer
- 18K Not Diagnosed But Worried
- 7.4K Waiting for Test Results
- 603 Site News and Announcements
- 560 Comments, Suggestions, Feature Requests
- 39 Mod Announcements, Breastcancer.org News, Blog Entries, Podcasts
- 4 Survey, Interview and Participant Requests: Need your Help!
- 61.9K Tests, Treatments & Side Effects
- 586 Alternative Medicine
- 255 Bone Health and Bone Loss
- 11.4K Breast Reconstruction
- 7.9K Chemotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 2.7K Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment
- 775 Diagnosed and Waiting for Test Results
- 7.8K Hormonal Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 50 Immunotherapy - Before, During, and After
- 7.4K Just Diagnosed
- 1.4K Living Without Reconstruction After a Mastectomy
- 5.2K Lymphedema
- 3.6K Managing Side Effects of Breast Cancer and Its Treatment
- 591 Pain
- 3.9K Radiation Therapy - Before, During, and After
- 8.4K Surgery - Before, During, and After
- 109 Welcome to Breastcancer.org
- 98 Acknowledging and honoring our Community
- 11 Info & Resources for New Patients & Members From the Team