Would a KETONE Diet Kill Cancer?

allbaddays... I think ecological 4-legged meat is okay but not on a daily basis. I eat beef about once a week. Fish several times a week. I think my weightloss was mostly due to the fact that its been hard for me to get enough protein and fat. Must find a way to incorporate more fat in my meals??? any ideas.

I dont monitor my blood glucose. Of course its necessary to check it once in a while but don't see the point otherwise.

http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/stories/the-9-nastiest-things-in-your-supermarket - the frozen berries and canned food part are the worst for me. Eating "seasonal" and "domestic" in winter times makes me envy the bears. Would rather go to sleep for months then. Actually that shift in food intake has been mentioned as well when I read about ketone diets. Hard to explain at work that you need a 4 month break each year. At least you dont have to go to boring family obligations in that time - and christmas shopping is avoided every year. Maybe its not so bad after all

allyourbad... Thanks for the info. I think too its more important to choose "clean" fats (ecological, domestic) over what particular type of fat. The book ive referred to several times mentioned the importance of medium chained fatty acids (for example palm oil) and suggested to take vitamin E supplements along with these for better uptake.

I can see your dilemma with iodine. I dont know a lot about sources but looked it up - you probably already know it but since you only mentioned seafood/weed ill just post the link for info (eggs and cheese are fine with the ketogenic diet). http://www.thyroid.org/iodine-deficiency

I eat berries as well - also frozen. Ive only been able to find coconut milk in cans. I just become so tired of all the dos and donts. I think it is of great importance to take precautions but also balancing it with a lifestyle that is driven by peace and joy rather than obsession and fear. I suspect my computer of interfering negatively with my health as well, or more precisely I can almost feel it does. I carry around some mental issues as well that I have to take care of. SO MUCH tidying up to do. I dont feel powerless, but I really feel overwhelmed of all the things that need to be adressed.

It's sad and scary that money comes first in almost all matters. But cant say I wasnt that way myself. I had to get cancer to open my eyes. Sometimes I think human kind is out to destroy itself, but mostly I like to believe it can be prevented when enough people become aware of the wrong direction everything seem to be moving in.

One last note: when you talked about moving temporarily to South America my dreams began. Im from Europe but visited SA years back. Ive dreamt of that before but its not easy with small children. Feel like i need to give them consistency in their life... would go without a doubt if not.

wouldnt feel good about no improvement either. Balance is my overall goal. Thanks for the mantra - will use it.

heidi, interesting. To clarify, I was not planning a fuly ketonic diet, I am toying withthe idea of trying the 2-day a week carb and calorie-restricting approach.

As for blood sugar, they test my fasting glucose as well. At DX and all through treatment it hovered in the high 90s. I kept telling them that it was too high, but they poo-pooed me, since strictly speaking it was within normal. After treatment, I started asking for an A1c as well. It has so far hovered on the edge of pre-diabetic, although the fasting sugar has now come down some, to under or right around 90 usually. My onc finally agreed that the borderline A1c is weird, considering that I am slender, eat carefully and work out. Anyway, my point being that an A1c is a fairly easy and reliable way to get more accurate blood sugar info.

Im confused!
thanks heidihill... actually ive thought about terminal cancer patients, those who stop eating and thus must be in a ketogenic state. Their cancer dont care and still grow. I wonder if ketones are great in preventing cancer in developing, however once there, it might fuel some of the most aggressive cancer cells?

I just came to think about my message about "balancing" everything, funny. Wouldnt it be nice if we could shut off all thoughts once in a while?
nice weekend to all.

Heidi, thanks for the article. I've always wondered about low carb high protein diets and BC. Sigh, BC is such a complicated disease. 

new_direction,
Well, how much detail do you want? I can really gas on! Partially because it helps me really evaluate and be honest with myself. My current eating pattern might be called "Ancestral Eating"? My current macros for the past week are 48% of my calories from fat, 32.2% from carbs (about 142 grams, not no-carb but lower than my fellow Americans), and 19.8% from protein. I'm using Cron-O-Meter to track. I eat about 1700/day. I'm 5'5" and 134 lbs-ish. I excercise (nothing too intense) about 5 days/week.
I eat real sourdough waffles most mornings for breakfast - I almost never eat any grains anymore that haven't been fermented like we humans traditionally ate them for millenia (hence the "Ancestral…" tag) I make mine with teff, buckwheat, and a bit of almond flour. Since waffles also include eggs, the glycemic load of this should be somewhat mediated by the protein. I put berries on them usually, unsweetened of course. I'm feeling somewhat influenced by the various dairy-fat cautions with breast cancer and am trying to use more coconut oil, pastured lard, and olive oil as cooking oils rather than butter though I don't think my butter consumption was too bad before. I think canola oil is awful, never liked the taste and it's so processed it does not fit into an "Ancestral" definition.
My other carb sources are mostly veg and fruits. Some modest amounts of nuts and seeds (too many means a person takes in too much omega-6 fat potentially). I eat frozen peas often as well as root veggies like sweet potatoes, rutabagas, and some parsnips and red potatoes. I aim for eating a brassicae daily (broccoli, cabbage, kale, mustard greens) but I've been slacking this week as I look at my chart, partially because I have a big box of spinach to work on. (Cabbage day!) I eat a serving of fruit or two most days. Berries & cherries I think are great for us.
I eat animal protein - fish, eggs, beef, pork, chicken, turkey, elk, venison, lamb, whatever and I aim for pastured and grass-fed but I'm not 100%. I'm going to stick with my current intake until I'm past radiation about 6 months and then I'll re-evaluate. I'm thinking of dropping to about 15% of calories on that one. I have trouble eating legumes and it's not the "they give me gas" issue, it's they leave me feeling ripped and raw inside and I usually gain a couple pounds from just one meal. It is probably that it is hard to find 100% glutenfree beans. Between growing, harvesting, hauling, storing and packaging there's too much likelihood that they pick up gluten. I did find some certified-glutenfree red lentils a few weeks ago and I soaked them beforehand and that seemed fine pain wise though I notice them on the scale, but real glutenfree lentils are as expensive as grass-fed hamburger pound for pound and require more prep on my part so I'm not terribly motivated yet. I'll re-evaluate that I'm sure… But eating some animal protein generally has a protective effect when you look at the details of the actual studies in those scary "red meet's gunna kill u!" reports, eating animal protein tends to have a protective effect against all-cause mortality. You'll see this over and over with the current prejudice against red meat. The headlines imply that red meat is bad in total where it's actually that "every level of intake is better than the lowest level other than the highest level. i.e. any red meat consumption between 10 and 160 g/day is better than less than 10 g/day and >160 g/day. The single ‘best’ level of red meat consumption (the lowest HR) is 40-79.9 g/day." That's nearly 3 oz a day so a few ounces a few times a week is not a problem to me. (see the zoe harcombe blog below) Basically, "Some is good, none is not good, too much is not good." aaaaand that brings me back to the old "Moderation in everything." or even Micahel Pollan's quote: ""Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants."" "Mostly plants" does not equal "no meat at all".
I do allow myself some treats. I eat dark chocolate almost daily, a half to one ounce. Will I drop this sometime? probably only if I start making my own coconut oil-based, stevia sweetened chocolate when I have the energy to do so. I have had some frozen yogurt twice in the last month too. It's pretty sugary, I'll admit, but I find I'm one of those people who if I completely deprive myself of these treats so readily available in our culture, I may just binge on them at some point - so I keep my portion to 3 or 4 ounces and let that be it.
Isn't it crazy? If I lived in a 3rd world country, I'd be happy with what I could get but here I am nit-picking all these details. Well, I also watch my nutrient intake. I'm one of those who figure it's better to get get nutrients from food as opposed to supplements and this current diet does a good job of that with some notable exceptions. I supplement D most days, folate some days or I take a multivite about 2-3x's week. My calcium and potassium tend to be a bit low on this diet too (I don't eat much dairy as it contributes to a terribly rash I get) so I supplement calicum about 3x's a week and have been taking a little potassium too but I'm very cautious about it.
I've been influenced by, but not necessarily wholly subscribing to, the information presented in "Nourishing Traditions", "Good Calories, Bad Calories", and these blogs:
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/
http://www.zoeharcombe.com/blog/
http://rawfoodsos.com/

I'm also influenced by my grandmother who lived to almost 102 just eating real foods including meats but not overeating and eating a variety of things. I'm influenced by my father who is alive at 85 despite battling crippling autoimmune disease all his life and he eats moderately, regularly has berries, regularly eats meat, etc. It's appropriate to note that we keep a completely glutenfree household and that my husband has dietary restrictions too.

If I had mets or recurrence, I would likely do fasts and keto days again. It just doesn't feel right right now while I'm healing from the active treatment plus I can't really eat enough calories unless I do eat carby veg and waffles thanks to my nausea from tamoxifen...

ok, the book is finished... sorry for hijacking this thread!

p.s., my blood sugar was at 85 at my follow-up a couple weeks ago and that's the best it's been in years! I had only eaten some nuts that morning, again thank you tamoxifen.

p.p.s., I drink a lot of green tea, >4 cups a day. That's a habit I got into a couple years ago in place of black tea and over 10 years ago I was a coffee drinker. I think my BC risk factors mostly came from drinking a lot in my 20s, working in smoky bars during same, and those factors combined with probable deficiencies from undiagnosed celiac disease. I don't think diet had much to do with it. But it seems smart to me to be mindful of my eating habits, hence my tracking them right now, considering already having had BC and wanting to keep my weight and blood sugar managed <- both good things to do in general. I am not immune to potato chips and cheetos, I just don't eat more than a portion if they end up in my life somehow. But again, I never ever eat Domino's, or McDonald's, or Stouffer's, etc. I rarely eat frozen processed glutenfree specialties because they are expensive and not worth it for the lack of nutrients. How someone else balances things might be entirely different.

I have sinned like in the old days this easter. I like sweets so much and 2 months with no problems vanished when I just ate a small amount of candy. Have to start all over.

All your bad days. Im really impressed you can do all these things and that you are so much in control with everything. Your long-living relatives are really an inspiration.
Thanks for the links. I do feel like there are so much I need to look into...

Thanks for the book, allurbad! Congrats on lowering your fasting blood sugar! I think it was more your diet though than Tamoxifen, just looking at how most people react to Tamoxifen. I will have to try to get a fasting blood sugar test now that I've been on Tami 7 months. A year ago, while on Femara it was 70. Which is about the average I think for the Kitavans. I do try to eat at least 8 portions of fruits and vegetables and exercise every day. Everything else as far as food in moderation. I have to keep the eating part simple as I have to feed a teenager and a husband on blood thinners. But this thread has reminded me that I need to know as soon as I can if this regime is still working with Tamoxifen or if I should be tweaking/overhauling things as far as the blood sugar is concerned.

So, do any of you juice? What is a daily menu like?

Momine...is this considered a Ketogenic menu?  Do you juice at all?  is juicing not allowed?  do you fast?  i am so confused on what is right to do since we have all been programmed about staying away from acidic meat.  Although, I think organic grass fed meats are lower in acid and less inflammatory?  Do you use raw milk or pasteurized?  sorry for so many questions...

Also...do you use any fats with the artichokes etc...coconut oil/butter?

I think the idea behind the juicing is the Norwalk juicer squeezes more nutrients out than you would ever get in eating the whole veg or fruit.  Also, the idea is to juice lots of low glycemic greens and low glycemic fruits/?  I do juice and it doen't seem to raise my insulin...so far, anyway.

Joelle, how on earth would juicing extract more nutrition than eating the entire veggie? If that is the claim made by the juice machine company, then I think they may be overdoing the marketing a little.

I can see how juicing veggies might help you get more nutrients into your regular day's diet, if you can't get enough nutrition at meals. But I don't think I have that problem.

Edited to add: I looked up he juicer you mentioned. First of all, it costs 2500 dollars, which is just crazy if you ask me. It does have a nutrition comparison chart, but it is comparing different juicers, not comparing the juice to just eating whatever food it is. I am not saying people shouldn't drink veggie juice if they want to, but I see no need to do so, and certainly no need to buy a 2500-dollar juicer.