DIM and PR+ breast cancer?

NattyGroves, here's the good news!  That's his job!  This isn't my regular doctor. He told me to bring all of my supplements.  His interest is in alternative therapies!  More later.  On my way to the movies.

Natty, thanks for the information.  My needs are basic.  I want to understand exactly what it means to be PR+ and the ramifications of intaking anything that would have an effect on/raise my progesterone level.  The guy I'm going to is a professor at the Harvard School of Medicine and is associated with Dana Farber, one of the top cancer institutes in the country. I have total confidence that this man will be able to explain at least that much to me.  As a bonus, he might even be able to order blood work to determine the levels of my circulating hormones and be able to explain what those levels indicate.  I've had email correspondence with him previously and he seemed pretty savvy about supplements I mentioned to him, including curcumin and a few others.  He also advised me to bring all of my supplements with me to the appointment so he could determine whether they are things I should be taking, according to my BC profile.

However, thanks for that listing.  A lot of those articles are old.  I try to find the most up-to-date information I can find.  But I will take the time to look over any of the articles that seem to apply to my case and then see if there are any more recent articles. 

trisha

Jodi and digger, thank you for your support.  I will not apologize for being willing to listen to a medical expert with excellent credentials.  I'm certainly not looking for rocket science here.  My late brother was an Ob-Gyn who died way too soon.  He helped to guide me through my journey.  I checked in with him all the time regarding my treatment and he spoke to me very knowledegably about the specific treatments with respect to the characteristics of my BC.  He never had to dig through literature and tell me he'd get back to me.  As an Ob-Gyn, he was probably first responder, if you will, to women with breast cancer.  If he were still here he'd be able to tell me without batting an eye about progesterone-positive BC and exactly what it meant.  Ob-Gyns are thoroughly immersed in womens' hormones and what they mean!  How much moreso an expert in the field of BC!!!   The discussion never came up because when he died, I was right at the end of my 5 years with arimidex (an aromotase inhibitor, by the way; I first heard the term and got an explanation of exactly what it was when I told my brother I would be taking arimidex.)

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NattyGroves - I never said anything about not reading.  I did say that I was going to ask someone versed in the field to explain things to me about which I wanted explanations.  I will be the first to say that I am here today because the doctors at Dana Farber, with their immense research (I'm confident they don't fly by the seat of their pants) and their up-to-date treatments, had an aggressive game plan for me since I had an aggressive cancer, and I was willing to crawl on my hands and knees to Dana Farber and put my trust in their hands, because I wanted to live.  I believe I am here to talk about it because of the excellent treatment plan they had for me.  Am I willing to talk to an MD who is a professor in the Harvard School of Medicine and head of the alternative therapy center at Dana Farber and to believe he might know what he's talking about?  24 hours a day, 7 days a week.  Maybe having a brother who was a doctor and realizing how well versed he was in his specialty and the offshoot of his specialty, breast and gynecological cancers, makes me have a quiet sense of confidence in going to a doctor in a top center that actually specializes in exactly what I was treated for.  In any event, I'm going, I'm psyched, and I'll report back everything I find out to anyone who is interested.

trisha

Binc, I can't wait to get the information so I can somehow put all of this together!  I never bothered finding out my %s of ER and PR and I am also really interested in knowing that too.  I too am HER+!  I promise I will come back with answers to all of this.  I'll ask specifically why it would be critical for someone 100% PR+ to have endocrine therapy. (I'll mention that you are also 100% ER+ in case that plays into it also.

*Note: An asterisk (*) indicates a cruciferous vegetable. These vegetables are packed with dietary
benefits and contain detoxifying enzymes. Aim for 1-2 servings of these vegetables every day.

For more information, visit our web page at www.danafarber.org/nutrition.

DANA-FARBER/BRIGHAM AND WOMEN’S  

                              CANCER CENTER     

Jodi I agree with everything you've said.  It just doesn't seem possible that they can't get the stuff on PR receptors that straight!  Maybe because ER+ is more prevalent with women's BC, and typically in higher %s, they've just studied it more?

I have oatmeal in the microwave right now.  I opened a can of sauerkraut earlier.  Being a non-cook doesn't help my situation.  But tonight I'm going to the  movies and I'm already thinking about the popcorn and pick'n mix candy!  Tomorrow I'm going to a kids birthday party so I know there'll be junk there.  So I'm thinking, maybe I should just start Monday?

So pathetic!

Binc - thank you so much.  I definitely am going to look into it.  As I said, I am not cutting supplements out of my daily regimen - just some of them! 

Momine - well I have started on my way, though he didn't mention anything about giant-size whoopie pies, and that was part of yesterday's diet.     I went to Whole Foods and bought some meat and got fresh vegetables from the salad bar and put them in different containers.  I'm not a salad eater but I figured if I got raw broccoli and cauliflower and peppers, I might eat them like snack-food in between.  I also bought some hummus last night so that I can use that as a dip if I get bored with the fresh veggies. 

I often say that if sweets were good for you, I'd be the healthiest and slimmest person walking the earth! 

I did do more research on what supplement I could safely take that would curb my appetite or help burn off fat, something I really need now, especially in terms of the sweets.  After spending the equivalent of at least two days on the computer, the only thing I came up with was l-carnitine and so I bought some and will start taking it today.  I'm too afraid of things like chromium picolinate and a lot of the other popular ones.  If anything seems to imply estrogenic activity or has any potential cancer implications, even if it's from a small study or is part of conflicting results, I still run from it.  I don't think that's necessarily stupid on my part.

Here's to continuing good health for all of us and prayers for a cure right around the corner.  And while we're at it, how about that magic diet pill that allows me to sit on my couch and watch television, gourging myself with all kinds of fattening foods, getting up only to get more to eat, all the while "losing pounds and inches at an alarming rate"?

Carola, always try hard to read things that I write in total context.  That should keep your being "surprised" to a minimum.  I am an attorney and far from a stupid or uneducated person.   I don't know where you got the notion that my diet totally lacks in fruits and vegetables.  And I don't remember saying that I was attempting to substitute supplements for food.  Supplements do many things, not all of them having to do with food replacement.  I did say that doctor was not supplement oriented.  That means any kind of supplement, not just food-source replacement.    And I did say that I was going to continue to take certain supplements - which I am.

And while we're on that, you may have noted that Binc said the following in her post:

As an aside, I see a naturopath as well. She has me taking a supplement called cruciferous complete which is manufactured by a company called Standard Process. Unlike DIM, it isn't an isolated metabolite but contains all of the nutritional value of the veggies. Specifically, it is a combination of kale and brussel sprouts - but in a greater, more concentrated amount than the normal person can consume in a given day.

So it seems that certain supplements can more than replace different foods.

In fact you might want to read up on something called MORINGA.  That will be the next supplement added to my arsenal.  See what it does that food cannot.

Finally, about the microwave.  As long as my food is not being irradiated, I'm quite content with my infrequent use of my microwave.  In fact, I'd be content if I used if frequently as well.

I notice you joined these boards in 2011.  I've been here since the beginning of 2004.  I cannot tell you how many stories I read here about females being so upset over the fact that they lived, in a nutshell, much the way you seem to live, or lecture on living, and they still ended up with breast cancer.   Vegetarians eating nothing but organic foods, and the like.  (My guess is that they didn't microwave either.)  So my motto will be more along the lines of "everything in moderation (as long as it's safe) ".  I do the best I can with what I have.  Perhaps if I lived in France I'd be much more a naturalist.  But being an attorney who lives alone and detests cooking, living on the East Coast of the United States - well known for its hectic pace - well let's just say I will probably never be the kind of person who would be your heroic prototype in this quest. 

As an aside, there is no question in my mind that I have some kind of dopamine imbalance (yes, I do research) and that's probably why I have the sweet cravings that I do.   That in turn creates a glucose spike and the drop that always comes with it, and in turn, the need for more quick energy, always in the form of the sweets that I crave.   So it's like a dog chasing its tail. In my spare twenty four hours each day, maybe I'll be able to figure out exactly what supplement I need to take care of that! 

Carola, my point wasn't about longevity on the forum in terms of saying things that are intelligent or less-than-intelligent.  My point was that I'd seen a lot of posts in the 8+ years I've been on here that are laments about having done everything right (or right from a perspective I think you would respect) and still ending up with cancer.  So I certainly don't intend to give everything over to a holistic way of life minus supplements and medications since that didn't seem to work for many who lived that way prior to their diagnoses.

I will do the best I can that fits in with my own personal philosophy, personality, and the lifestyle I choose to lead. 

Every time I research a supplement, I am taking my life into my own hands. 

While you say you don't judge others who think differently, your posts to me have been at least a little strident in terms of you "questioning" things that surprised you and also felt like they had the tone of a lecture.  If that wasn't your intent, well all the better.

No hard feelings.

Barbara, I haven't but I will right now!  Thanks so much for the lead!!!

Trisha

Carola, well as the saying goes, walk a mile in my shoes before you start to tell me the best way to walk.  If I could eat all the crap in the world, take a magic pill, and be fine, I'd do it in a New York City heartbeat.  And the title of this forum has the word "complementary" in it.  Naturopaths all over the world recommend supplements.

Do me a favor.  Save your lectures for someone who wants them.  You remind me of these people who read something and create a whole story out of it that has nothing to do whatsoever with what was said.  Maybe it's the language differences, idiomatic expressions or the like.  But you have twisted most of what I've said, or at least my intent, and turned it into your own morality play, so I find it best that we wish each other well and go our separate ways!    Things are tough in the USA, but we can't all be France!  (eye roll)

Since I somehow fear that you haven't really gone away from this for good, how about I say I'll let you have the last word.  That way we both know that no matter what you say further, you won't expect a response from me.

Au revoir!

mclark, thanks so much for posting.  Interesting thing about stress.  I had it said to me that by the time my breast cancer was discovered, it had probably been growing for the last 8 years or so!  When I tracked back the time, my mother had died "unexpectedly" - she had ovarian cancer and was in the hospital, and the night she died, the doctor told us she had turned the corner and would be coming home probably within the next few days; my grandmother (her mother) who hadn't been sick a day in her life died three weeks later. We had decided not to tell her about my mom being sick because we didn't want her to worry, and we had to lay that on her; I was in the middle of law-school exams and my law school understandingly told me I should still take the exams, and so I did.  And I graduated that year and went right into studying for the bar exam, something in itself that was probably one of the most stressful things I've ever done.  Do I believe that I barely had an immune system during that period of time.  You betcha!  And my life was so lock-step at that point in time that I'm sure I did a lot of internalizing because I really didn't have time to fall apart.

I'm really good with stress now.  I have great outlets - prayer, a great family, and baseball!  I am a baseball freak and spend my time watching every game of the season, plus postseason games and talking about the team on a baseball forum during the off season!  That really is a great release for me.  My job is pretty stressful by its very nature, so the baseball actually becomes my sanity!

I am far from a saint when it comes to my lifestyle, and I am getting better by inches - which is better than not getting better at all, ha ha!  I don't judge how other people live their lives and I'm not big on being judged by others.  I know I'm not perfect.  I don't need anyone to light that up in neon for me!     I wish I could zap a magic wand and never want another sweet or all of a sudden be in love with my stove, but I just don't see it happening.  So I'm eating raw vegetables for a start.  Not bad.  And I have a bag of apples in the refrigerator and am drinking more water.

AND I ORDERED MORINGA AND CARALLUMA FIMBRIATA AND WILL BE ADDING THOSE TO MY REGIMEN!!!

By way of further confession, yes I tend to be on the gullible side.  My father always used to say that he wished he wasn't my father because he'd be a rich man.       But I REALLY think I hit paydirt with these!!!

Thanks for the help and support.  We're here to join hands, not to tear each other down.  Heck,  I wandered over here because I was concerned about DIM and progesterone.  I never claimed to be a prototype for healthy living!  But I'm trying, I'm trying.

(A very) HAPPY TRISHA!