I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

Just a little horrified watching Meet The Press this morning.  Seems Mitch McConnell has not learned much and will not answer questions.  I am with E.J. Dionne who had nice words to say to and about Newt Gingrich...a man I usually do not like at all..........that it is the working together and NOT using the debt ceiling or things of that ilk to lord it over and get your way....

Honestly, I'm to the point where I think the Republican party is in a terrible shambles and it is not likely to come right soon.  These people are going to have to care about US and get er' done --- I hope they wake up, but if they keep playing these dangerous games.....hope 2014 sees them gone. 

As far as Fox ( Farce ) news......they have been given license to lie. That in itself is enough for me. I'm sure there are a couple of their people who try to be un-biased, but just like the House/Senate/Republicans in government......if it is that un-equal it becomes a waste.  I listen to several news stations, and read newspapers and magazine articles.  Fox is a highly watched station as is MSNBC. 

United we stand, divided we fall -- but each side has to work under that premise.  No question as it is anywhere you wish to look, and even a huge number of their own in agreement, the Republicans are self-destructing.  I would like to think that they could rise above.  I would like to hope their is hope and I would love to see it happen.  Where is caring, reaching out to each other and sanity.  I hope it is there and can find its way out. 

I still think government salaries and perks are way too much and perhaps that should go through some adjustment. 

Just some random rants here. 

Please excuse if I'm a downer.

Jackie

AnneW-don't you know you're supposed to cut and paste the entire article? 

No one will read if they have to click on a link. 

Mary

Belinda, I corrected that - sorry momine.

Jackie -are you referring to city, state or federal government salaries and perks (by which I assume you mean benefits)? The jurisdiction often differ.

What a beautiful horse - and owner!

I just looked at some Federal job postings.  The Federal prison system is offering a maximum (that means many years after being hired) of around $155,000 for a medical doctor and $120,000 for a dentist.  Keep in mind that is working in a dangerous environment with patients who can no doubt be quite unpleasant.  Overpaid?  I don't think so.  In fact they have a very hard time filling those positions which is probably why they are being advertised all the time.  Clerical positions are in the $20,000 range.

Like Kam said ... there are some benefits but they are not freebies.  We all paid 7% of every paycheck into our retirement system and although that is comparable with Social Security now, back in 1970 when I started working I think Social Security was more like 1 or 2%.  So for most of our careers we paid a lot more into our retirement system than a private employee did.  We pay a part of our health insurance just like other companies and we also pay for our life insurance benefits.  

Federal employees have also been paying into Social Security since about 1984 ... in spite of all those emails going around saying otherwise.     

Wabbit - regarding what you say about the judicial system. Feds are hugely underpaid there compared with the rest of the sector. In fact, Chief Roberts dedicated most of his first report asking congress to pay federal judges better, saying that many of the good ones were leaving to the private sector because of low pay.

Edited to add this here: Having said that, federal judges are VERY well paid - the vast majority of people in the US do not earn salaries of over $100,000. So for general national standards these people don't do badly.

Government employees I know are in government because of the chance to serve, and they like their job - but the salary part is something they sort of have to swallow whole. Relatively low salaries. The real perk is a chance to do something for your country. There's no price to be put on that, but it won't buy you very much in retail.

Jackie,



One thing that people often don't take into account when thinking about government salaries is job responsibilities and educational levels. If you just take the "average" government salary and benefit package and compare it with the "average" private sector salary and benefit package, of course you will come away with a skewed picture. The private sector includes millions of low-wafe, no-benefit jobs at places like Wal-Mart, McDonald's and other service sector jobs. The Federal government no longer has many (if any) service jobs - they have all been contracted out (at handsome profits to the contracting companies and no improvement to the workers' salaries and/or benefits). Same with clerical positions - the vast majority are contracted out and they make lower wages with fewer benefits than if they were actual civil service employees. The Federal government career (vs politically appointed or elected) workforce is more educated and older than the general population - and people with master's degrees or PhDs make more in the private sector, so why wouldn't they make more in the government? None of the professionals who have ever worked for or with me has any less than a bachelor's degree, and most have master's (as do I). I have 34 years of Federal service and have worked my way up from a GS-2 to a GS-15 (and yes, I am in Washington, DC).



Salaries are higher in DC because that is where the headquarters operations are of most Federal agencies. The Secretary of Energy, Steven Chu, is a Nobel-prize-winning physicist. He makes $200,000 a year. What do you suppose the head of Boeing makes?



If you want to drive salaries and benefits to the bottom, you will drive the quality of the workforce to the bottom. People don't work for free, and in Washington, DC, there are plenty of other companies competing for quality workers. Many, many government people I know have left for the private sector and immediately doubled their salaries and gotten better benefits - company-paid 401(k)s, fully-paid health, dental and vision insurance, and other "perks." Do you want the government to be staffed by the best people? Then you have to offer them something besides bashing them for making too much money and calling them stupid for not going to the private sector. The joy of public service won't feed your kids or put them through college or make sure you're not eating cat food in your old age. ("you" in this context doesn't mean a person directly, it means "someone" or "anyone.")



As for government perks, I pay for my healthcare, although the government also pays a share. I also pay 7% of my salary into an annuity. I will not receive Social Security (or a spousal benefit) because I haven't paid enough into it. No spousal benefit because the rules are that if you get a Civil Service pension, your spousal benefits are offset by your pension so unless you make a tiny pension, your spousal benefits are eliminated. The government does not pay for life insurance or long-term care insurance - we pay the entire premium should we choose to elect it. As a member of the previous retirement system, I am allowed to pay into our 401(k) plan, but I get no matching. Members of the current system get matching up to 5%, but that is to compensate for a much less generous defined-benefit portion, into which employees pay .8% of salary. They also pay into Social Security.



And a word of caution about the Cato Institute study: the Cato Institute was established and is funded by the Kochs. Not exactly the people who want a robust civil service. The methodology on that study has been questioned by many.



People go into public service for many reasons, mainly to serve this country and make it better, or to help people, or all of the above. They do not go into public service to get rich. And still they accomplish great things - a Federal employee from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) won a Nobel Prize in physics last October - the fourth from that agency alone to win since 1997. I can't find the reference right now, but several dozen Feds have won in various disciplines over the years. They don't get paid any more money for winning - the top salary available to non-executives is $155,000. Nobody can make more than the President, who makes $400,000. The maximum rate of pay for a government executive is $179,700. I know that is a lot to people who make very little, but why is it OK for the head of United Health Care to make more than $100 million and the head of the National Institutes of Health make less than $200,000?



Sorry to go on for so long, but there are so many myths and misconceptions about Federal employees. It isn't McDonald's or Wal-Mart salaries, but then again, it shouldn't be. Do you want the best people searching for cancer cures at NIH, or guiding airplanes in for a safe landing or overseeing the safety of our food and drug supply? Or do you want to continue the race to the bottom?



Getting down off my soapbox now. It took me so long to type this that our fast-moving thread has probably covered six more topics by now!

L

Excellent description of the Sunday shows, Sunny. Haven't watched them in years.

BTW, what some people describe as pork never ceases to amaze.

I suppose if any of us ever buys something to drink --and we happen to have potable water-- then it must be pork. Milk, orange juice = pork.

The truth is, Boehner didn't put Sandy help to the floor because he didn't want to rock the boat -NOT out of any pork concern. The pork story is an alibi that doesn't hold water - a cock and bull tale concocted to protect Boehner, ensure his re-election and quell talk about conservative disarray. If the country really wants to get rid of some excess saturated fat, it can start by trimming the House leadership. 

blue they are cute. I have a friend who is planning to buy one of them for her kid!!!! Would you believe they cost 500-800 dollars for the tea cup size ones.

Ah, pigs at the trough!  

Have to have a Master's Degree or above to get a job anymore in my gubmint agency. (Firefighters and clerical the exception.)  Referring back to that About.com site on Gubmint benefits, ...never got eye or dental with federal government health insurance and I pay 1/3 the premium.  I had $5000 out of pocket with BC this last year.  I would have been better off being poor and qualifying for Medicaid.  Another $800 for eye exam and glasses - out of pocket. Luckily I have good teeth    No one matched my 401K contribution and "free" childcare was never offered at my location...not enough children.  I used EAP once....worth about $100.

Then there is the COLA for living in certain geographical locations.  Talk about an unequal application of a potentially good idea.  For most of my career, homes in some of these higher cost designated areas were cheaper than where I live (e.g. Dallas, TX and at times Seattle and Portland) and I'm sure those Texans wouldn't like my grocery bills either.

There are lots of federal employees working outside of DC and the other major metropolitan areas, that are just eeking out a living, and mostly forgotten in these platitudes about government employment.  Believe me.   As I said, the head of my unit is a GS-15 and she oversees millions of acres of land, thousands of miles of road, coordination with other goverment agencies (fed, state and lcoal), tribal relations, various interest groups (i.e. the public), 500-1000 employees, depending on the time of year, hundreds of contracts and when I looked up that pay, with our cola, that is $130K a year (at the top of the grade).  Does someone really think this is too much for this responsibility?  I would venture to say she doesn't have much of a life other than work.