Chemotherapy or Radiotion?
Why do I need Chemotherapy, Radiation, and anti hormonal Therapy after a successful lumpectomy and the lab results were free of cancer?
The third week of december I had a lumpectomy and a biopsy of two lymph nods. The diagnosis was:
1. Sentinel Lhymph Node #1, Biopsy: - Two Lymph Nodes negative for metastatic tumor, 0/2 (By H&E stain and Pankeratin Immunohistochemical stains on blocks 1A-B).
2. Nonsentinel Lymph Node, right biopsy: - One Lymph Node Negative for Metatatic Tumor, 0/1.
3. Breast, right needle localization lumpectomy:
- Ivasive Ductal carcinoma (tumor site not specified)
- Biopsy site changes present.
- Remaining Breast Parenchyma with focal usual-Type ductal hyperplasia.
- Skin without diagnostic abnormality.
- Tumor size: 2.2 cm
- Glandular (Acinar) / tubular differenciation: score 3
- Nuclear Plemorphism: score 2
- Mitotic rate: score 1
Overall grade: Grade 2
Tumor focality: single focus of invasive carcinona
Ductal carcinoma In Situ (DCIS is present)
Negative for extensive intraductal component (EIC)
size (extent) of DCIS:
Estimate size extent) of DCIS (greatest dimension using gross and microscopic evaluation): at least 0.4 cm
Number of blocks with DCIS: 1
Number of blocks examined: 9
Architectural patterns: Cribriform
Nuclear grade: grade II (Intermediate).
Lobular carcinoma In Situ (LCIS)" Not identified
Macroscopic and microscopic extent of tumor:
skin: invasive carcinoma does not invade into the dermis or epidermis.
Nipple: Not applicable
Skeletal Muscle: Not applicable.
I was told by the radiologist that I have a 15% to 20% chance to get cancer again in 10 to 15 years without treatment, and I will have 5% of getting cancer again with treatment in 10 to 15 years. I feel that 5% to 20% with or without treatment is worth to wait for treatment until I get the cancer again if I get it.
The radiologist explained two options: #1. radiation for 6 weeks that could be reduced to 4 weeks. #2 Breast Breachytherapy for 5 days.
Oncologist offered a must have the following plan: #1 chemotherapy for 4 months in cycles of 1 day every 3 weeks. then #2 radiation from radiologist. Then #3 anti hormonal replacemetn therapy.
The radiologist disagreed with that, he really wants option # 2. He called my surgeon already and the surgeon nurse called me telling me that the surgeon wants the #2 option (radiologist) to be done next week. I feell that I need more information before making a decision.
My question is: What would the difference be having or not having the different treatments? It seems that having cancer again with or without the chemotherapy, the radiation, and the anti hormonal therapy is 5% to 20% in 10 to 15 years.
Please help me with more information. Thank you, Annie
Comments
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Hi, Annie ~ Your post contains a lot of questions, but let me try to answer some of them for you.
Early stage breast cancer is very treatable if you have the recommended treatment. Surgery removes the tumor(s). Chemotherapy is a systemic treatment that goes after any rogue cells that might have escaped from your tumor. Radiation basically sterilizes the area where the tumor was, so that it can't grow back there. Each tx step does something different, and taken together when you need them, they're extremely effective.
As far as a recurrence, what is much more troublesome than a local recurrence would be a metastatic recurrence, which means bc cells show up in your bones or an organ. Unlike early stage bc, metastatic cancer can be controlled with chemo, but it can't be cured. So you always want to throw everything that's recommended at bc the first time around, hoping that will ensure it's the only time!
Annie, you didn't give us your stats. Are you Her2-? If so, and if you haven't had an Oncotype-DX test (which you didn't mention), I would absolutely ask your onc for that test. It's the only way to tell for sure if chemo will even benefit you -- unless you happen to be Her2+, in which case chemo and Herceptin would be recommended without the Oncotype.
I know chemo and radiation and anti-hormonals seems like a lot, but try not to think about it all at once. One step -- one decision -- at a time is a really good mantra right now. I would concentrate on figuring out if chemo is actually recommended for you per that Oncotype test.
Hope this helps, and glad you've found BCO! Deanna
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Hi Deanna,
Thank you for answering my questions, the results and interpretation: HER2 by Fish: Not amplified. Microcalcifications: present in both carcinoma and non-neoplastic tissue.
Primary tumor (invasive carsinoma). (pT): pT: Tumor >20 mm but = 50 mm in greatest dimension.
Regional lymph nodes (pN): pNO (i-): No regional lymph node metastases histologically, negative IHC.
Distant metatases (pM): not applicable.
Ancillary studies: performed on previous biopsy specimen . Estrogen receptor (ER)
Results and interpretation: positive (98% of tumor cells with nuclear positivity).
I am sorry for writing all this information, but I don't know what these terms mean.
Thank you, Annie
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Annie, from your data it looks as if you are strongly ER+ and Her2-. This is great news for you. Ask for the Oncotype. You don't mention your age, but at 43 I wanted 40 more years. The Oncotype helped give the full picture of how aggressive. While my tumor was 7mm (less than a centimeter) my reoccurance rate without chemo was 33%. With chemo it's about 10%. I look at the ratio this way. Reoccurence generally does not happen in the breast, so you need to swing with the big bat right at the start to keep the cancer out of bones, liver, brain. Oncotype gives you a reoccurence score and helps with the decision. When I look at your stats - 25% risk of terminal illness in 10 to 15 years looks a lot worse that a 5% risk of terminal illness in 10 to 15 years. I'm through chemo and rads and I'm still at 15%. But docs really don't know without the Oncotype score. Also ask if your office has a social worker or someone that help you take notes and digest the information your getting. Or bring a friend with you to all of your appointments. It is so hard to digest this information at the beginning.
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Thank you for your repply, what is oncotype?
I am 61. I will ask for the social worker. You are rigth, it is a lot of information and it is difficult to accept this illness.
Thank you,
Annie
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Annie, talking to your social worker is a good idea. Many women also talk to more than one oncologist, especially if they are not happy or comfortable with the one they're initially sent to. Ask around for recommendations and consider making an appointment for a second opinion with a different oncologist if you are not comfortable with the one you've seen.
And don't be reluctant to ask questions. If you don't understand something, ask for an explanation. If they are rushed or impatient with you, seek out a doctor who isn't and who will take the time to explain things to you.
Here's an explanation of the Oncotype-DX test: http://www.oncotypedx.com/ I am really puzzled that your oncologist is recommending chemo for you without having done this, especially at age 61 vs. someone under 40, for example. Normally, it's not up to your breast surgeon or radiation oncologist to decide if you need chemo, but in your case, I understand why they are also questioning the recommendation. Deanna
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Hi Deanna,
After the biopsy, the surgeon told me that I would have the lumpectomy and that I would only need to take pills for five years with not side effects. She did not mention that I would neeed chemotherapy and radiation at all. So, thats why it was so confusing and surprising to me after the lumpectomy, to find out that I needed those other treatments.
The radiologist wants to give me the breachytherapy. It seems a good option because it will be a short term treatment. I will see the surgeon this afternoon and ask her more questons.
Thank you for all the information,
Annie
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