I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange
Comments
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Dear friends who can't tolerate anyone bringing up gun control: You're not going to intimidate me with your !!!!s, ????s, WORDS IN ALL CAPS, namecalling, and threats to unfriend. I am going to speak my mind regardless of your protestations.I just wish you loved the First Amendment as much as your reading of the Second Amendment. Instead trying to bully people into submission, let us speak freely. Most people aren't calling for a ban on guns contrary to your knee-jerk reactions. We want better regulations on something that is already regulated. We just want improvements. To quote my friend Jim Sanches, there's a difference between regulating and banning.
Respect that America needs to talk about this massacre considering many factors including gun control. So, stop making wild accusations, calling people morons, and trying to shut down discussion.
Dear friends who say that calling for better gun laws is like calling for a ban on cars: First of all, cars are not designed to kill people. Deaths arise from accidents. Secondly, car ownership and driving are highly regulated activities including an elaborate licensing system, insurance mandate, penalties and terms for getting licenses revoked. What we are saying, to quote my friend Mike Stafford, is like calling for seat belt laws after a car crash, not banning cars.Jim Sanches writes, "If they're going to use the car analogy, fine, let's regulate them as well as we do cars then. We mandate seat belts, headlights, the licensing of every car yearly and liability insurance on every car for starters. Not to mention all the rules of the road, traffic lights, stops signs, etc we all must obey even if we've never violated any of them."
Dear friends who say that Newtown is about mental illness and we should only discuss improving healthcare for the mentally ill: This is like saying drinking and driving is about alcoholism and we should only discuss treatment for alcoholism and not discuss how to prevent drinking and driving.
Dear friends who say the problem is the person not the gun: The problem is the person with the gun.
Dear friends who say we need guns to protect ourselves from the government: To beat the US government, you're gonna need bigger and better weapons than guns. Would you be in favor of legalizing civilians owning tanks, bombs, fighter planes, chemical, biological and nuclear weapons?
Dear friends who treat the Constitution as some holy scripture from God and who think they have divined the correct, original, literal, interpretation of it: News Flash! The founding fathers were not psychics who could predict the future. They didn't think of everything. The Constitution doesn't mention online identity theft. Does that mean we shouldn't protect ourselves from it? The genius of the framers of the Constitution is that they wrote a living document that was designed to be amended as we go.
Dear friends who think we need more God in the classroom: Our country is founded on the the principle of the separation of church and state because it is dangerous to mix power and religion. Historically, it's led to tyranny. No, we do not need more religion in classrooms. We need more common sense and respect for the give-and-take of our democratic process. We need to insist on fact-based, civil dialogue.
Dear friends who think we need more guns in the classroom to protect our children: Why stop at arming teachers? Why not arm children? How far will you go in thinking that easy access to guns is the solution to the problem of gun violence in our society? Do you want any regulation at all? Do you want buying assault rifles to be as easy as getting a Slurpee from 7-11? Would you allow children to purchase guns? Do you really think easy access to combat weapons is about personal freedom? Do you really think that's what founding fathers had in mind when they made enormous sacrifices to build America? I'm so baffled and disgusted by this response, I only have questions for you. I can't understand how you're thinking about this.
Dear friends who fear that your guns will be confiscated: NRA seems to enjoy inciting fears among gun owners that guns will be banned and their weapons confiscated. This is just a fear tactic. I don't see anyone on the national stage calling for this, certainly not on Capitol Hill.
There is a big difference between NRA members and NRA leadership by the way. There are ideas for better regulations that the majority of NRA members agree on, but the NRA leadership does not advocate for them or are fiercely opposed to them. For example, the majority of NRA members support closing the gun show loophole, reporting lost and stolen guns, and states sharing records with the National Instant Background Check System.
Instead of encouraging discussion and real information, NRA spreads fear and misinformation. Please listen to what we are actually saying instead of what you fear we are saying.Sincerely, Annabel
Annabel is a filmmaker and the founder of the Coffee Party. Her new documentary project is Story of America: A Nation Divided. You can follow her on Twitter @annabelpark and subscribe to her Facebook updates.
Annabel Park on Coffee Party Radio: Please join us Tuesday night at 8 pm ET on The Middle Ground to discuss gun violence and what we can do to make it less deadly and less frequent. Hosts Michael Charney and Eric Byler will welcome Annabel Park and Michael Stafford, and take your calls from 8:00 pm to 9:30 pm.
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Momine, I glady accept your compliment!
--Athena, the Grammar Police (but proofreading dunce!) Don't get me started on grammatical written and spoken errors that get on my nerves. I will sound MUCH more mentally ill than those gun nuts. I'll just say that one good reason to ban assault weapons/whatever it is that needs banning is because you do NOT want me having access to deadly weaponry when I have to overhear college kids on the street making every other word they say "like" and intonating every sentence as though it were a question. I almost want to pat them on the back and say "yes, don't worry, you do sound like a very, very stupid person. You won't intimidate anyone, which means you will get laid."
Strict gun laws protect lives.
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Enjoyful -- It's easier to google Newtown United, and the FB link will come up that way.
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Blue, that was beautiful....I'm sure I'll be putting that on several times. Still think there are few easy answers here, and though I'm not in total agreement with all that is said.....I do feel that we have way too much violence in t.v. and movies. When I was a kid....growing up, ( got our first t.v. when I was 8 yrs. old ) we knew that cowboys and Indians weren't actually REAL. Violence as an answer...for anything just did not make sense. Dueling, slugging it out, and anything of the ilk just didn't really seem to apply as the answer though we did see it on t.v. We did though have a Mom who was mainly stay-at-home. It truly is hard to figure out, but I really do think we need to think about a whole raft of things on a common sense level.
Jackie
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Ladies~I just stopped by to say that I do agree with all of you. Even though I have a concealed carry permit, I've never carried a gun, and I pray I never feel the need to. I'm all for hunting. As a matter of fact, if we didn't have deer hunting in our area, I think the deer would out number us very quickly. I live in central Ohio and they are walking or running down our city streets.
I hate to see them hunted for just sport though. I hate to see them killed at all. They are so beautiful. I see them almost every day lying on the side of the road where some driver has hit one. It breaks my heart.
But, back to the subject at hand. There is absolutely no reason in the world why anyone should ever own an assault rifle or any kind of automatic weapon. It's beyond my comprehension. I am not a member or supporter of the NRA. I think someone on here said, " the NRA is afraid if one gun is taken off the streets, they all will be taken." You're probably right on that thought.
Our leaders, both Republicans and Democrats have got to stop their bickering, bend a little, and do what's right for the American people. Too many innocent people are dying, and too many mentally I'll people are falling through the cracks. They are victims too.
Do any of you remember the Central Ohio Freeway Shooter from 8 years ago or so? He was picking random people off on the freeway. I know it was national news at the time. He's sitting in prison. He slipped through the cracks. His parents tried for years to get him help to no avail. I believe he and his parents are victims too. We let them down.
IllinoisLady my Grammatical pet peeve is, " I axed him a question."
Oh no!!! Gus, my dacshund just drank my coffee again!
Blessings
Paula -
Soteria - I agree with you whole heartedly. If we as a nation can't come together to stop the killing of our children, then there's something deeply deeply wrong with our society. I'm a gun owner too - keep it locked in a safe and only I know the combo. I also agree on hunting, as long as the animal is eaten, not killed just for fun. After all, it's probably a more humane way of obtaining meat than the stockyards and the slaughterhouses.
My sister lives in Columbus, so I do remember the freeway shooter.
Take care. Hope you're feeling better.
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Thank you Soteira. I also agree with you. Responsible gun holding is the key. Assault weapons must be taken off the streets.
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Ha, ha! If chemo has affected your tastebuds maybe your dog thinks he's doing you a favor?
Paula I agree with you, and I am surprised when I hear gun owners taking umbrage. This debate isn't about them, it is about the laws and the ridiculously high place that gun ownership takes on our values pole. Some people may have legitimate security concerns but they need not have the power to blow everyone off the planet. I would even agree with concealed carry permit in dangerous situations for some people - absolutely.
For example, if I were being stalked, I would apply for a gun licence, a permit to carry it, take shooting lessons and physical self-defense lessons - on top of any other legal and lifestyle measure. You can't really rely on the police.
And the second amendment, IMO properly read, gives us the right to self defense. But that right is already enshrined in common law. The Second Amendment is not necessary.
I "get" that you can't always rely on guv'mint. If I lived by myself in a dangerous area of town and had a first floor apartment --I've said this before-- I would want a gun. The stalking is another circumstance. Death threats are another.
But wanting to own a gun because guns are "my right"???? Serious legal scholars strongly dispute that. The Supreme Court has made a mockery of its office by its re-interpretation of the Second Amendment.
Guns should just be taken out of the (wrongful interpretations of) Constitution and left in the hands of legislatures, and if a state decides to ban guns outright, well, you know it in advance if you want a gun. The Second Amendment, insofar as it gives people the right to raise a militia, is also outdated.
There is no reason to deprive hunters - but what would be wrong with placing restrictions on storage and use of the weapon? Just like there are laws and restrictions on when you can hunt and what you can hunt.
We all may feel like shooting up the word at times. My rx: retail therapy! :-)
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I took a couple of Christmas Pics.
My Cookie Jar....already half gone!
And finally, my Choir.......
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Many more but I don't want to bore anyone. OOps forgot to turn on the 500 lights on the tree.
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Blue, you put my undecorated den to shame. Not so much as a pionsettia!
Greedy Wall Street finally knowing which way its bread is buttered - good:
The reaction to the Newtown shootings spread to corporate America and to California on Tuesday, as a private equity firm said it would immediately sell the company that made the assault-style rifle used in shootings, while California lawmakers announced an attempt to regulate the sale of ammunition more tightly.
The legislation, being introduced by state Senator Kevin de Leon, a Democrat, would require anyone looking to purchase ammunition for any kind of weapon to undergo a background check and obtain a one-year permit costing $50. The legislation would also ban the sale of ammunition in California by mail, requiring that all transactions be done in person.
Democrats said that given the party’s increasingly powerful control of the Legislature – where they now control two-thirds of the seats, in both the Assembly and Senate – they were confident that the legislation could pass swiftly and hoped it would set a model for other states around the country.
In announcing the sale of the gun manufacturer, the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management made clear that the decision stemmed from the killings at Sandy Hook Elementary School, in Newton, Conn. “It is apparent that the Sandy Hook tragedy was a watershed event that has raised the national debate on gun control to an unprecedented level,” Cerberus said in a news release.
The firm said it planned to sell the Freedom Group, which makes the .223 Bushmaster rifle used in the massacre. Cerberus acquired Bushmaster in 2006, later merging it with other gun companies to create the Freedom Group.
Tuesday’s announcement follows a statement from the California State Teachers’ Retirement System, a large pension fund, that it was reviewing its investment in Cerberus in light of the firm’s holding in the Freedom Group.
More here: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/a-rising-chorus-but-not-quite-consensus-on-guns/?hp
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Blue, that was beautiful but now I'm crying again.
DH gave two of his guns and the cases and accessories that went with them to the police yesterday. A couple of the high-capacity type guns. He bought them decades ago, pre original ban. I had forgotten he had them. They were a supposed investment as we didn't use them and they were buried in the back of the gun safe. Anyway, we were talking and it came up that he had them and he said that the choice was to give them to the police or to cut them up, depending on what the police would do with them. The chief said please don't cut them up and assured us that they won't be sold. The chief is keeping one in his trunk and locking it in a safe every night. The other will be used for range practice and kept in the police station because supposedly it is a very cool gun and most haven't had a chance to shoot one. Anyway, DH came to this decision and I was glad because once he mentioned that he had them I wasn't going to let him keep them.
His supposed investment ended up being a big loss. I don't know the cost of the guns but I do know the scope for one of them was $800. I know this makes DH sound like a gun nut but really over the last couple of decades he went to the range less than once a year, cleaned the guns and kept them locked up (our gun safe looks like a bank vault, took four guys working as hard as they could to get it in here, and it's bolted to the floor). He just grew up with a different gun culture than what has evolved now. He now wants a ban on the type of guns he gave away. He has always wanted the gun show loophole to be closed and is against concealed carry being available to everyone. He has never considered getting a permit to carry. He also would support more regulations but not to totally ban guns.
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Blue, not boring - guilt inducing!
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Athena, lol and don't worry, I can sound every bit as nuts as you on this subject so you will have company. I don't even have a DX as an excuse
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Momine, LOL!
RR, good for your DH!
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Athena, our daughter is a teacher and our grandkids are near the ages of those killed. This has hit us both very hard. On Monday daughter had to go to work early for a safety meeting and they had police at the school. This is on top of the fact that the Michigan legislature recently passed legislation doing away with gun-free zones and if the governor signs the bill public schools won't be allowed to restrict guns. I have called and email the governor and signed every petition I can get my hands on. My stomach was already in knots over this before the shootings and is considerably worse since.
I probably should have mentioned that DH shot competitively when he was young. He grew up with guns just being part of his life and collecting them just evolved from that.
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RR, your DH sounds like mine. He has never owned an assault-type rifle, but as a firearms instructor at his last job, he trained his fellow law enforcement offers how to use them. They are ugly things, and they are no fun to shoot, he says. I think your DH is wonderful, RR -- and I am sure the police in your locality are really grateful that your DH donated them!
L
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I used to skeet shoot competitively and would use my dad's rifle. Two shots at a time is all that came out of it. I was pretty good at it but my shoulder sure was sore after each competition. My highest score was 24 out of 25....never won any trophies as my dad would get a perfect score. When he got home, he would lock the rifle in a vaulted safe.
He still likes to go pidgeon shooting, wild turkey and deer. I never have liked his hunting because I can't even kill a spider but he taught me to respect guns. While waiting for our turns to shoot, the rifle was always kept open, so no accidents would occur. My dad is 82 and still loves going into the wild. I think it keeps him young. The fresh air and exercise are doing him good healthwise.
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RR, I now what you mean. My grandson just started school and it kills me to think of those innocent angels and how terrified they must have been.
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HL, I hope the voices of those such as your DH and mine can lead to some real changes.
Blue, I never shot skeet, only target with a pistol. I was afraid of the shoulder kick. Also, I didn't do it competitively. DH won trophies at skeet and did all sorts of other competitions. Here's something he always attended:
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Blue, I think that's what hurts the most, thinking of them being so scared. I have mild ptsd as a result of my healthcare adventure. After counseling for several years it doesn't interfere with my life much anymore. But this is making me think I might need a "tune up." And for anyone worrying - It was never bad enough to worry about this but I don't have the combination to the gun safe. It is in a place where I can retrieve it if something happens to DH but not for my access until then.
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Oh, RR, that is what haunts me. The terror. And the screams. And I would happily melt down every single firearm in private hands in this country so that no child would ever scream like that again. And I, too, am wondering about PTSD. I cannot shake this. I am comforted, thought, that DH and the LEOs he works with are still shaken and still tear up when they talk about it. It is taking a long time for even hardened police officers to get over this from a distance.
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From ThinkProgress:
A sixth-grader in Kearns, Utah brought an unloaded handgun to his elementary school on Monday, reportedly at the urging of his parents.
According to the local Fox affiliate, the 11 year-old told his fellow students he was encouraged by his parents to bring the gun to school “for protection” following the shootings at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut on Friday. Police are currently determining what role the parents had in the student’s actions, but the school acted quickly to disarm the boy after learning he had the firearm on school grounds:
The boy reportedly pulled the gun, a .22-caliber pistol, out of his backpack during recess Monday morning.
“At recess, he pointed a gun to my head and said he was going to kill me,” said Isabel Rios, one of the boy’s fellow 6th grade students.
Granite School District officials say students didn’t notify teachers about the weapon until 3 p.m.
Far-right advocates of looser gun restrictions have been advocating since Friday formore guns in schools to prevent tragedies like the one that occurred in Newtown. Among the proposals being floated are allowing teachers to bring guns to class in Oklahoma and arming teachers with assault rifles. These suggestions come despite a renewed support from the public to put stricter gun control laws into place.
And I've just read about Tennessee legislators who want all their teachers trained in firearms, and at least one in each school armed at all times so that a would-be assassin won't know which teacher is armed and which one isn't.
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HL -- I know that many think that kids are so "resilient" that this won't have a lasting effect on them. I don't agree. I do remember things that frightened me as a child (and yes, I was a bit of a wimp!). Grimms' Fairy Tales were frightening, for example. But I believed my parents when they told me these were not real.
That cannot be said for any young children -- and especially those at Sandy Hook -- who now have every legitimate reason to fear a strange gunman entering their school and mowing them down. That is just TOO real a fear.
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Oh, Linda, I vividly remember the things that frightened me as a child. I also vividly remember what it was like to be 6 and 7. That is what is so harrowing about this for me personally -- I can absolutely picture what they went through. Today's children must go on, of course, but they will never forget this -- and I can imagine that millions will fear just that.
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http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/18/15994142-family-newtown-boys-favorite-teacher-died-cradling-him-in-her-arms?lite
It will break your heart all over again. -
Never thought of it that way....my goodness, if I had heard of all this during childhood I think it would have colored my whole experience of growing up. Schools across the country, regardless of size or age group, now KNOW that a massacre could very easily come to them.
That really has to make it hard for today's parents to define safety. Usually we think we know how to stay safe, but this massacre and others like it make mincemeat of that equation.
If I had small children I would seriously consider either sending them to boarding school abroad for their own safety, or moving abroad with them.
I have had significant exposure to places of world renowned violence, but even then there was a clear demarcation of "safe" versus "not safe." For example:
guerrilla territory = not safe
paramilitary territory = not safe
rundown neighborhood = not safe
Bosnia-like living = not safe.
In fromt of the guards = not safe
Behind the guards = safe
Bullet proof materials = less unsafe
But school was never, ever in that calculus. (If you got kidnapped it never happened at school, for one!)
Will repeat this one again:
How can a country with the world's mightiest military be yet so dangerous for its most vulnerable citizens.
If we don't have the right to healthcare or the right to life --if guns and money rule-- then how can we call ourselves a developed nation - let alone a civilized one?
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Can't do facebook at work, but many of you chat with me there and I'd like to announce that my daughter's thyroid biopsy was benign! The doctor thought it probably would be, but it's nice to hear it in official words!
Mary
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Mary - that is good news. Thinking of you, having to be in a classroom, these days.
I don't know if any of you have run across this gentleman's posts here at BCO. He is brca2+ and has had breast cancer. My supervisor follows his blog religously, but as a cycling enthusiast. I won't name his name, as that seems to be against the rules here, but this is his blog on 12/15. He went to law school with Emilie Parker's aunt - one of the shooting victims. His BCO name is similar to his real name.
http://redkiteprayer.com/2012/12/the-explainer-this-one-has-nothing-to-do-with-cycling/
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