I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

  If I can throw in my 2cents---Stop reporting on these tragedies minutexminute,hourxhour,dayxday. These monsters WANT their 15 minutes of fame and to go down in infamy and WE allow it.

 Does anyone remember the Victims of OK city, Boston,etc..etc. No we dont we only remember the KILLERS names.  We dont remember the names of the Amish kids killed, or the ZODIACS victims,etc..etc.

  I really believe if we stop the over  reporting AND PUT INTO LAWS gun laws that make sense, will we be able to take some control of these situations.  I grew up with guns in the house, my Dad was a cop. I have a sibling that was a drug addict and total criminal.  My Dad never believed everyone should be able to get guns and that there is NO NEED to issue permits for uzis and the like for hunting

                 sorry for rant---kad2kar

          PRAYERS FOR PEACE FOR THE FAMILIES OF THIS TRAGEDY

Huckabee should just do what most of the other gun supporters are doing.  Keep quiet.  They really have nothing to say that we haven't already heard.  (It isn't the gun, it is the person with the gun.....he could have done the same thing with a knife....geez)

I have to wonder if the horse is already out of the barn.  Too many guns in too many hands.  And you can just imagine the wheels that are turning at the NRA right now.  The lobbyists are on their way to Washington too.

I hesitate to write this, but I've decided I have to. You can all whale away on me if you wish. *deep breath*

I know you're all very upset, but I'd urge you to reconsider some of your words. Frankly, to demonize, or inhumanize those who disagree with you on gun control is just as bad as the tactics of the conservatives you also deplore. And this is why I'm an independent. Both Rs and Ds are just as bad about whipping up emotions and using ad hominem attacks on those issues they feel strongly about. And you're both wrong to do it. I catch crap from both sides for refusing to toe their party line. I have just about every conservative I know mad at me for my support of Obama and some liberal views. And now I'm going to have my liberal friends mad at me, too. But I have to call it like I see it.

I have a gun, and I've never gone amok or even thought about it. I certainly don't consider myself subhuman or less than human or however y'all put it. I feel hurt and attacked by gals I thought were my friends. I gladly pay the government to run my fingerprints and do a criminal background check on me in exchange for the right to carry. I don't have a problem with that, and I didn't have a problem with a background check before I could purchase a gun, so those of you who say there are no checks are dead wrong. Also wrong are those who have stated that mentally ill people can freely buy and carry guns. That's not true here in Indiana and we're a pretty conservative state, so I'd bet it's not common if it's even allowed in other states. I personally think that's a liberal straw man to rail against while chanting the liberal boogie man mantra of, "NRA, NRA!"

I didn't laugh or feel indifferent to the deaths of the people killed today. Children OR adults; all the deaths were just as wrong, just as devastating. I cried. But I don't think any law on the books would have stopped this man today. We have a shitload of gun-control laws. We need to start enforcing them instead of adding to them more laws that aren't enforced. He walked through an unlocked door, for God's sake. Maybe stricter controls on entries and exits might help. I know many schools do require ID to enter. There is more to this problem than just a knee-jerk reaction would indicate.

Just please, think about what you're saying. If you're trying to convince others of the rightness of your cause, I don't think you're going about it the right way by attacking anyone who doesn't believe as you do. If you're just talking to each other in an echo chamber, have at it. I didn't think we always had to agree to post here, but I'm feeling very uncomfortable with the tone, and attacked.

Our schools have locked doors and the office has to buzz you in.

I can't help but think that if they knew the guy they would have buzzed him in anyway...

I am sorry you feel attacked Riley.  We should be able to come together on this site.

I feel that there are many things wrong with our country and emotions are high right now.

Our neighbor had to walk out of a house the other day as the kids were "playing" a video game that he said "transported him back to Iraq" as it was so real and he could not stand it.

There is something very wrong with that.

Carolyn, thanks for posting. I think we probably disagree on gun control (thought I'm not even sure we do, as you mention a number of protections you do agree with), but it's good to be reminded not to demonize all gun owners. (My ex-husband was one - until his hunting rifle was stolen In a burglary. So much for security from having a gun in the house!)



My own strong reactions are to what I consider an irresponsible and extremist gun lobby. I personally dislike guns and would never buy one, but I do know a lot of folks who are responsible gun owners. I'm very sorry if you felt attacked.



Peace,

Linda

What do you use it for?

Primarily target practice, but I bought it when I lived in a bad part of town (couldn't afford hundreds more a month to get out). I also grew up with guns and also have my grandfather's shotgun, although I don't have any ammo for it and wouldn't shoot it for fear of damaging it anyway.

Target practice is very relaxing. I call is stress management. Cheaper than retail therapy!

I'll quibble with one thing, those of diminished capacity or the mentally ill as some would say, do have access......access.....because of the proliferation of horrifically damaging weaponry and the continued need of one segment of our society to insist that no weapon of any kind should be Inaccessible to the masses.



They don't have to buy them, because families have them lying about. For protection you know. But Yes they can buy these weapons and do. They can be significantly impaired and subject to rages but they don't have a big M branded on their forehead. Their drivers license gives no clue. Never been arrested for anything perhaps. Maybe they only seem peculiar. Perhaps they have learned to live isolated lives and are nice to the casual passerby who knows nothing of their demons. Families do their damnedest to find therapeutic help only to find none they can afford or that for the most part the psychiatric community is completely impotent to help.



These mass killings and the damaged humans among us who perpetrate them go hand in glove as two issues that no one seems able to comprehend or have a solution to.



I know I don't.

I feel so sad at another shooting. Yes there have been some horrific shooting here but we cannot have guns except for hunting then under extremely strict conditions. Our police do not in normal circumstances carry guns or even tazars so something like this is so strange.

Those poor teachers and those babies it is terrible.

Riley -- Those of us who have no use for guns of any kind do understand why certain people -- farmers, ranchers, hunters, skeet shooters etc. -- own rifles or pistols.  Like Blue, I'm wondering why the killer's mother needed 3 guns.  And why her son who, by some accounts, was mentally challenged, would have access to them.

There is a difference between reasonable gun control and banning guns.  I see no reason for expanded magazines and fully automatic weapons.  I don't understand why it's harder to get a motorcycle license than to get a gun - at least if you screw up on a motorcycle you likely to only kill yourself.  I don't understand why background checks and waiting periods aren't mandated for anybody buying a gun, since it's so easy to legally buy guns at gun shows, why it is so easy for people who are known to have mental illness with violent tendencies to get guns.  I don't understand why people who do have guns aren't required to keep them locked in a safe. I don't understand why gun safety classes aren't mandated for anyone buying a gun.

For the record, I also have a gun, but it is in a forty pound safe that has both a key and a combo lock.  (A long story, not for tonight.)   

Riley - When I get mad, it isn't about gun ownership (though in my ideal, but impractical, world, most guns would be banned), it's about these large magazines and automatic weapons. It's about this idea that one should walk around schools, etc., with concealed weapons, or those with mental illnesses can so easily purchase or obtain these weapons...mostly it's the insanity that the NRA espouses that if you ban assault weapons or the large magazines, or have waiting periods, or backgroun checks, next it will be your hunting rifle.

I own a shotgun, 20 guage.  It's in my house because I use to bird hunt, not because I want to shoot some intruder.  It might be fun to trap shoot; never tried it.  I have it so well hidden that no one would find it.  It doesn't define me, never did and I'd happily give it up, but I understand this type of gun ownership.

I have to ask why your need to have guns is more important than these children's lives, even if it were possible to ban all guns?  I respect your opinion, but there are shades of gray here....and most of us are not arguing you cannot own your guns, but why is that always the first assumption by gun owners?

Here is a perfect example of why guns need to be under lock and key, and I'm referencing back to Belinda's article.. "The shooter is a man, usually a young man, often with a history of mental illness."

My gf's son was off to college. While there he had his for psychotic event (sorry, I may not use the proper words).  His ultimate diagnosis was severe bipolar.  He got on his bicyle and rode 65 miles in the dark of night. He ended up at a hunting lodge where he found an unlocked pickup with a hunting rifle on the racks, keys in the ignition. He then drove this pickup to the closest International Airport and tried to hijack a plane, using the rifle.  Luckily, he didn't shoot the gun, but he could have.  He doesn't remember any of it.

I knew/know this young men.  A straight A student, Zen, normal normal normal, wonderful gentle human being.  I think if this had happenned after 9/11 he would have been in jail for life, but the whole town rallied around him and the judge let him out after 6 months.  He's out and about, and has had episodes, but nothing that resulted in this type of event.

When I hear of these types of events, like today, I think mental illness.  Especially when it is man of this age 19ish.  Usually it turns out to be the case.  They say it's not the guns, it's the people.  I hate that saying.  It's both!!

"This is all about guns — access to guns and the ever-increasing firepower of guns. Over the past few years we’ve seen one shooting after another in which the killer was wielding weapons holding 30, 50, 100 bullets. I’m tired of hearing fellow citizens argue that you need that kind of firepower because it’s a pain to reload when you’re shooting clay pigeons. Or that the founding fathers specifically wanted to make sure Americans retained their right to carry rifles capable of mowing down dozens of people in a couple of minutes...."

That is where I am with it, more or less. I have no problem with guns or gun ownership. My grandpa in Denmark had a cupboard full of rifles, they were locked up and nobody ever came to any harm from them. But if the kid only had access to an old six-shooter, we would have had far fewer dead.

Sure, but the other piece of this is better psychiatric care. It is always difficult to reach people when needed and to reach them adequately, but psychiatric care is notoriously sketchy in the US.