2012 sisters

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  • _Ann_
    _Ann_ Member Posts: 769
    edited September 2012

    Ramols, thanks for that.  Now that you mention it I was pretty bewildered by the self exam thing too due to the "small and lumpy" factor.   Nowadays I keep feeling up the good boob, and it seems less dense and lumpy than the cancer boob, so I wonder if I can safely keep it.  Isn't that a ridiculous state of affairs?  What we need is some way to detect cancer besides "stick a needle in anything suspicious and do a biopsy".  How about a nice cancer sensor that they just wave around over your body?  And then add a cancer killer setting that magically zaps every cancer cell.  Maybe in another century if humanity survives that long.

    Sleep well! 

  • CelineFlower
    CelineFlower Member Posts: 875
    edited September 2012

    websister.. said:  

    Celine - I think that I have a healthy respect for some of the things you mentioned but I do think that fear is different, it is the thing that can keep us up at night worrying, it can keep us from getting things checked out when we know we should and it robs us of peace and being 'in the moment'. Faith then is what tells us that we can do this and helps us take any required action and helps us to a place of peace. :)

    Juneaubug...said:

    Celine flower. I agree, but some faith is needed to move your feat forward, when you brain screms no. Not everything we fear is bad for us, 

    In my opinion you both are talking about anxiety.. which is fed by how we respond to fear. Fear seems to me to be an important tool in life... but how we cope and process that fear is very important 

  • Junif
    Junif Member Posts: 100
    edited September 2012

    Cindy--that was a great article..thanks!

    For others who mentioned dense breasts, there is currently legislation in many states that would require letters (with mamogram reports) to be sent to women who have dense breasts.  The wording varies but they are bascially telling you that the density affects the ability of the mamo to detect abnormalities and you might want to discuss other screening methods with your Dr.  Many states are worried about how the language should be because it might confuse and upset our delicate female psyches.  I asked a group of friends what their BI-RAD scores were and they didn't know what I was talking about.  This web site explains it really well.

    http://u-systems.com/women/know-your-breast-density-classification

    Most women don't know about BI-RADs because we get those wonderful letters saying your mamo was fine, see you next year.  For years I have been requesting all my test results.  Doctors miss a lot!

    Also, legislation is pending in Michigan, but the Michigan Komen sites DON'T MENTION A WORD ABOUT IT.  There is also Federal legislation:

     http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3102

    For the ladies that didn't get mamos right away, don't beat yourselves up.  I decided to use the newer guidelines saying get one every 2 years.  So, 2 years later, I discovered a lump.  After I was diagnosed, my brother kept asking me if I had gotten mammograms...like this was my fault!  

    My BS told me that she thinks mammograms are still the best followup for me in the future.  Frankly, I think that is bullshit.  I had a mamo, ultra-sound and MRI.  The MRI found another cluster of cells that had an abnormal cells and needed to be removed (was removed during my lumpectomy).  So, I now have a baseline for the MRI.  I intend to insist on an MRI (yes, I know they yield false positives) but I would rather have something that can catch nearly everything, emits no radiation and is not painful.  I have insurance and it covers the MRI with a co=pay which is sooooo worth it to me.   

    Hope today is a better day for everyone!

  • Cottontail
    Cottontail Member Posts: 374
    edited February 2013

    I'm too young to be getting regular mammograms, according to all the guidelines.  I'd had one, a few years ago, to verify that the couple of lumps that had been in my breast for years were indeed fibrocystic.  One even had calcifications, and didn't behave typically for a cyst.  (It was firmer and didn't move around.)

    I felt a new lump earlier than I reported it to my doctor, but it felt very much like my other lumps, so I wasn't worried.  I didn't go back to the doctor until it grew and became painful.  I'd even had my yearly lady-exam six months before and gotten the all-clear.

    So yeah, screening is great, but I hate that we're sometimes made to feel it's our fault for not reporting things earlier or not stopping in for a mammogram every other week. 

  • Cottontail
    Cottontail Member Posts: 374
    edited September 2012

    I'm too young to be getting regular mammograms, according to all the guidelines.  I'd had one, a few years ago, to verify that the couple of lumps that had been in my breast for years were indeed fibrocystic.  One even had calcifications, and didn't behave typically for a cyst.  (It was firmer and didn't move around.)

    I felt a new lump earlier than I reported it to my doctor, but it felt very much like my other lumps, so I wasn't worried.  I didn't go back to the doctor until it grew and became painful.  I'd even had my yearly lady-exam six months before and gotten the all-clear.

    So yeah, screening is great, but I hate that we're sometimes made to feel it's our fault for not reporting things earlier or not stopping in for a mammogram every other week. 

  • mcook301
    mcook301 Member Posts: 509
    edited September 2012

    Hello Ladies,



    I don't think any of are alone for the one's that waited to follow up on a lump or exam. I do hope that I can share my story that I felt a lump in September and it worried me but I guess I kept thinking it would disappear but as it got larger I knew something was not right. I did not go in till Feb. I was frozen by fear and the unknown. It was exhausting to live with that for months and knowing I had to go in to be seen but didn't.



    I share this story as much as I can to my friends, family and anyone who will listen so I can maybe convince them to go in for their exams and do self breast exams. I have had many reply and share with me that they had been putting off exams but my story reminded them to go in. So I feel like sharing my story helps others to take notice and some positive comes out of this because I could help prevent someone from not getting screened. So I stopped beating myself about not going in because I can't change the past, it is what it is:) but I wish I would have had someone convince me to start going in at 40 instead of waiting two years for my first so I am going to share as much as I can for others.



    I hope everyone is having a good day! I am thinking of all of you in chemo and rads today! Of course us recovering from surgery as well! I start work back on Monday and at first I was going insane being off work because for the last nine years it had been my life. But a big part of me wants a new me and I don't want to work 7 days a week and basically be on call 24/7 . I just need to figure out what I want to do when I grow up:) Big Hugs!

  • jpmomof3
    jpmomof3 Member Posts: 643
    edited September 2012

    Morning ladies. Cindyl, thanks for that article, that actually helped me feel better about my situation. I was beating myself up for this whole year about not getting my mammogram at 40 like I was supposed to. I found a new lump christmastime 2011 jaws 41. I thought it was just another fibroadenoma like the one I had removed from that same exact area when I was 23. I waited until late January to go get the mammo. That is when my life changed of course. BIRADs 4 and some enlarged lymph nodes. I knew without the biopsy that it was cancer. I was sure that fucker was there when I was 40 and if I had gotten a mammo I would have caught it before it went to my nodes. But I wonder now. Maybe if I had gotten the mammo at forty it would have been normal ( I have really dense breast too so who knows what good it would have been). If it was normal at 40 I may have passed that lump off as nothing for a lot longer and been in an even worse situation. So maybe NOT getting a mammo at forty saved my life... I obviously have an aggressive cancer that likes to metastasize. Fucking cancer. I like that article, this is not my fault. This just sucks,



    Here is my rant from the rads thread... We are all talking about age and getting cancer. It sucks at any age but us younger people got even more ripped off. Cancer at 70 or 80 is horrible but cancer at forty??? Or thirty??? Or wherever you are pretty in pink, twenties is really really wrong.



    This whole year has been one horrible slap in the face. I was completely healthy and in my prime. I was supposed to have 20 or even 30 years of good healthy life left. I got slapped in the face with my mortality. I wasn't supposed to have to worry about dying at this age. I was supposed to be out having fun with my children and watching them grow and playing tennis and running and working and travelling and having fun with my husband. Instead I go to doctors and get scans and poked and things cut off and skin burns and hair fall out and vomit and get my lung burned to shit and worry about my arm swelling and pain and have my energy taken away and my hormones taken away and time taken away from my family. And every lump or bump i find terrifies me. I hate what this has turned me into. And I have a 15 percent mortality in the next 5-10 years. Now that might not seem that bad but that is 15 times the mortality rate of someone my age and in my general health. A 15 goddamn percent chance that I won't see 50 or my oldest graduate from high school, let alone the younger kids or seen my grandkids. I haven't lived enough yet goddamnit. I am terrified that I am going to leave my family like my dad left me. He died when I was 9 of brain cancer. This isn't fucking fair. Fuck cancer fuck it. Stop fucking with people. There are way too many really young people on this website dealing with this shit.



    Rant done. Going for a run. Going to spend time with my kids. And go get the shit zapped out of my skin and lung. Let's just hope it's killing the cancer cells that might be hiding...



  • juneaubugg
    juneaubugg Member Posts: 951
    edited September 2012

    Websister. ..thanks. Slept great. Crying already like a big baby. I don't wanna go! Well guess what, I leave in 30 mins. A big breakfast of my favorite, banana pancakes with peanut butter instead of butter, and syrup. Yum.



    Oh and JPmom- your hairs looking great. Making me hopeful and jealous all at the same time! :-)



    Ladies, have a good day for me would you. I want to read about fun stuff while I'm stuck in the BGC.

  • juneaubugg
    juneaubugg Member Posts: 951
    edited September 2012

    Websister. ..thanks. Slept great. Crying already like a big baby. I don't wanna go! Well guess what, I leave in 30 mins. A big breakfast of my favorite, banana pancakes with peanut butter instead of butter, and syrup. Yum.



    Oh and JPmom- your hairs looking great. Making me hopeful and jealous all at the same time! :-)



    Ladies, have a good day for me would you. I want to read about fun stuff while I'm stuck in the BGC.

  • juneaubugg
    juneaubugg Member Posts: 951
    edited September 2012

    Websister. ..thanks. Slept great. Crying already like a big baby. I don't wanna go! Well guess what, I leave in 30 mins. A big breakfast of my favorite, banana pancakes with peanut butter instead of butter, and syrup. Yum.



    Oh and JPmom- your hairs looking great. Making me hopeful and jealous all at the same time! :-)



    Ladies, have a good day for me would you. I want to read about fun stuff while I'm stuck in the BGC.

  • juneaubugg
    juneaubugg Member Posts: 951
    edited September 2012

    Websister. ..thanks. Slept great. Crying already like a big baby. I don't wanna go! Well guess what, I leave in 30 mins. A big breakfast of my favorite, banana pancakes with peanut butter instead of butter, and syrup. Yum.



    Oh and JPmom- your hairs looking great. Making me hopeful and jealous all at the same time! :-)



    Ladies, have a good day for me would you. I want to read about fun stuff while I'm stuck in the BGC.

  • juneaubugg
    juneaubugg Member Posts: 951
    edited September 2012

    Websister. ..thanks. Slept great. Crying already like a big baby. I don't wanna go! Well guess what, I leave in 30 mins. A big breakfast of my favorite, banana pancakes with peanut butter instead of butter, and syrup. Yum.



    Oh and JPmom- your hairs looking great. Making me hopeful and jealous all at the same time! :-)



    Ladies, have a good day for me would you. I want to read about fun stuff while I'm stuck in the BGC.

  • MrsCich
    MrsCich Member Posts: 409
    edited September 2012

    Jp, you took the thoughts out of my head. I could have written that post!!! I so agree with you in every aspect. I'm 33 (34 in Nov)....why the hell do I have to worry about all of this. I woke up fine and healthy the day I found the lump and I was just as fine the day I got the actual diagnosis. THIS ISNT FUCKING FAIR!!!! I don't want to have to be poked and prodded on for the rest of my life...however long that may be. My story is a little different that y'all's.



    My story starts with my finding a lump in my right breast. My Gyno said it felt cystic but sent me for an u/s. The Radiologist couldn't see it on u/s and said "it's probably a ridge of breast tissue." Probably??? No thank you! After calling back my Dr's office and being told an MRI would have to be paid out of pocket because it wasn't medically necessary, I contacted a BS to get an approximate cost. After telling my story, the receptionist at the BS's office was furious and made me an appointment stating that HE would make it medically necessary.



    At my first appointment with the BS, he too felt it and said it felt fibrocystic. He said I had dense fibrocystic breasts but that I could get an MRI if it would ease my mind. I had my MRI on a Monday and the results were ready that afternoon. I went in for the news, expecting it to be nothing because I played all the scenarios in my head and "nothing" seemed to fit. The BS said the MRI showed TWO areas that were highly suspicious for malignancy, BIRAD 5 for both areas. He was shocked as I have no family hx of BC and again, I'm only 33. I have a 7% chance for the biopsies coming back cancer. 7% isn't bad I thought....I wouldn't bet on anything that had 7% odds. Ya know?



    The day of the biopsies, you could cut the tension in the room with a knife. I felt as though all the professionals around my husband and I had a secret and wouldn't tell us. Both of my masses had all the characteristics of cancer but they couldn't tell me that. My biopsies were on a Thursday...results appointment Monday afternoon.



    I couldn't wait until Monday afternoon so I went Monday morning to get a copy of the pathology report from the hospital, promising my husband I wouldn't read it without having him on the phone. I read it aloud and cried.



    Upper outer breast mass: Ductal Carcinoma In-Situ, High Grade 3 with stranding enhancement



    Upper inner breast mass (this is the one I had no lump for and didn't know about, it's next to my chest muscle): Invasive Ductal Carcinoma, Grade 2. Ductal Carcinoma In-Situ Intermediate Grade 2.



    WHAT?!?!? I had a 7% chance of cancer and now I have two kinds????? My heart broke. I am young and very much in love with my husband and my kids. How can this happen? I don't feel sick! That's the hard part....if you felt sick, it'd be easier to comprehend that your body was turning against you. Trying to kill you. I feel fine.



    I too am to young for yearly mammos. If I wouldn't have pushed to get the lump I felt, checked out this would have went unchecked for at least a year but possibly longer because I may not have went for a yearly check up. Paps aren't important to me because I had a hysterectomy and they took my cervix and uterus. Everyone tells me I should be grateful that I caught it in time. GRATEFUL?!?! Why on Earth would I be grateful?? I know it could be worse. Hard not to know when everyone keeps telling me that. But I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to be pissed the fuck off for having it to begin with! I will try to adopt everyone's positive thinking when I'm ready. Right now I want to be mad that my life was interrupted and completely turned upside down.



    Done with rant. Lol.



    I have a PS appt today. I don't think I'm going to get a fill today either though. He called in an antibiotic for me on Monday because I have an infection in my right nip but I think he's going to have to debris it. When I took the gauze off this morning to change it, it had a funky odor. :( THIS FUCKING SUCKS!!!! Then after this appt I have my first Onco appt. nervous as hell!!!!! I will most definitely be taking a Xanax before my appts. I went from someone that never took pills (my ex was a junky) to someone that worries over every ache and pain and takes pills to get through the day sometimes.



    Blah. Fucking blah!

  • bevg49
    bevg49 Member Posts: 739
    edited September 2012

    jpmom, I read your post first and it broke my heart and made me sit here and cry. Then I read Mrscich and it broke my heart again. What the fuck? Young people are not supposed to worry about things like that. You should be worrying about paying a bill or a report card your kids bring home, not yet mortality..... If I were religious, I would say I'd pray for you, but if religion were real, you wouldn't be in the boat youre in and so I send hugs and love and healing vibrations....I am 63 ---- more fair for me to have this fucked up disease..... Please, just keep fighting.

  • websister
    websister Member Posts: 1,092
    edited September 2012

    Morning



    Juneau - glad you had a good sleep, breakfast sounded great. With you re: tears. Cry away. I will do my best to have a good day in honor of you. Starting my countdown and preps for next Tuesdays chemo.



    Jpmom - love the new avatar



    Ramols - hope the eye clears up quickly and that you were able to get some sleep



    Junif - good post, thanks for the links



    Mrscich - hope the infection clears up soon and will be thinking of you with your onc appt



    Re: mammograms - in the past 10 years I have never had one that they didn't need to do an u/s following due to the breast density. Had been having them every 6 months following core biopsies and pathologist recommendation for bilateral lumpectomies in 2009 -fibroadenomas but a scary time until that was confirmed. After Jan. 2011 mammo doctor recommended going to every two years for mammograms, found lump with enlarged node at 11/2 years out. Initially mad at dr. But then wondered if I'd had one this January if it would have been seen, if not I may have shrugged off the lump and waited longer. Now I need to try to deal with it.



    Take care everyone

  • mcook301
    mcook301 Member Posts: 509
    edited September 2012

    Ladies



    As I type a text to my sister about how she doesn't understand all the long term affects of treatments etc (remember she is a director for the a American cancer society) I read post from jp and Mrscich - it says it all! It does suck being younger with this dam diease but I don't care about anyone's age. I don't any of us going through all this! If you are old enough to be my mom, grandma etc it is unfair for all of us! I need my mom, sister and grandma as much as they need me to be healthy and not to have to deal with any of this. I have best friend whose mother passed away right after we graduated from college. She hid her BC from her daughter for awhile. She was 60 and had many of great years left to spend her retirement year with her grandchildren and traveling after years of working and just retired. I am not saying I am not pissed as hell I got BC at the age of 42 but I am pissed all women who has to fight for their lives because of fucking BC. We are all in this together and at different stages of our lives but I need you all to keep fighting with me and support me with your wisdom and strength! I love you all! fuck cancer!

  • mcook301
    mcook301 Member Posts: 509
    edited September 2012

    Ladies



    As I type a text to my sister about how she doesn't understand all the long term affects of treatments etc (remember she is a director for the a American cancer society) I read post from jp and Mrscich - it says it all! It does suck being younger with this dam diease but I don't care about anyone's age. I don't any of us going through all this! If you are old enough to be my mom, grandma etc it is unfair for all of us! I need my mom, sister and grandma as much as they need me to be healthy and not to have to deal with any of this. I have best friend whose mother passed away right after we graduated from college. She hid her BC from her daughter for awhile. She was 60 and had many of great years left to spend her retirement year with her grandchildren and traveling after years of working and just retired. I am not saying I am not pissed as hell I got BC at the age of 42 but I am pissed all women who has to fight for their lives because of fucking BC. We are all in this together and at different stages of our lives but I need you all to keep fighting with me and support me with your wisdom and strength! I love you all! fuck cancer!

  • Tazzy
    Tazzy Member Posts: 2,546
    edited September 2012

    Good rants ladies... rant away!   BC is indiscriminate and a sneaky bastard.   I am 52 and felt I was too young to get this.... I dread to think how I'd feel in my 30/40's.   Direct your anger and getting rid of bc and enjoying a long healthy life after this.    Dont let it take away your hope and love.  Not that I think any of you are.

    To those going into the BGC - good luck... make sure you have big pockets we can jump into and share your journey.

    Sending healing, positive vibes and mojo to you all.

    Another lovely sunny day in paradise here.  My DH has finished building the shelves for my greenhouse so I am moving all my stuff out of the shed into it today.    Its my zen place and at times I dont even think about bc. 

  • mcook301
    mcook301 Member Posts: 509
    edited September 2012

    Oh yea so I was wondering why I felt coo coo for coco puff that last few days! I started my period! It makes me sad and scared! It makes me feel normal but I know this is not a good thing being E+. I didn't have children before but now it is not even an physical option so having this start again is just not fair

  • _Ann_
    _Ann_ Member Posts: 769
    edited September 2012

    Great discussion everyone.  I really enjoy the angry posts.  I go back and forth, thinking this is utterly awful and unacceptable, and then thinking well it is what it is (hate that expression really) and because it is, my only hope of getting through this is to convince myself that it is acceptable so I can find peace with it.  Not having so much luck with that yet!  Maybe if I'd been some person of faith or some expert meditator for 20 years already, that would work better.  Instead I'm thrown into this crisis emergency mode, trying to claw my way out of it.  The only thing that gives me hope is noticing a lot of women say it gets better after a couple years, mentally.  But can I make it two years with this much anguish?  It's hard to believe I can.

  • MrsCich
    MrsCich Member Posts: 409
    edited September 2012

    I agree Ann. 2 years is a long time. This journey is definitely just as much mental as it is physical. I can handle the pain, with help from pills. FUCKING PILLS!!! My fear is once I'm mentally lost, will I ever return to normal. Will I be able to function without Xanax? Will I constantly worry? I hear stories, same as all of you have, that once your a 5, 10, etc year survivor...you don't think about it everyday. In 10 years my youngest will be 14 😔 and my oldest will be 25. Their childhood will be gone and I will have missed it thru worrying.

  • liefie
    liefie Member Posts: 2,440
    edited September 2012

    Jpmomof3 and MrsCich, your posts made me so very sad, and scared for my 29-year old daughter who now has a higher risk because her mom went and got bc. She just got married in July, and they are planning a family soon. Her new husband's mom had Stage 3 IBC 10 years ago with BMX, with aggressive chemo treatment and rads. My 25-year old daughter-in-law's mom also had a BMX due to bc last year. It just seems the young women in my immediate family are sitting ducks for this damn disease. I don't want them to go through this trauma, but I have no control over it. I can only hope and pray that they will be spared from this experience. Of course I also preach to them about getting mammograms and being checked up. Hopefully because they have a higher risk, they will start screening earlier.

    The very first thought that jumped into my mind when I was told that I had two cancers in different places, was that I am 57, and my children are grown and independent. If I were to die, they are adults now, and can fend for themselves. I shared this with my children, and they freaked out. It is as Mcook says. All families love and need their mothers, grandmothers, sisters, aunts and daughters. But for those of you with small children, I feel for you. It must be so difficult.((((BIG HUGS!!!)))

  • PinkyWI
    PinkyWI Member Posts: 73
    edited September 2012

    I haven't posted for awhile but have been reading.  Just having a real hard time climbing out of that fucking rabit hole.  But, saw this today and wanted to share...

    Marijuana And Cancer: Scientists Find Cannabis Compound Stops Metastasis In Aggressive Cancers

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/19/marijuana-and-cancer_n_1898208.html 

    I finished my last AC treatment two weeks ago today and will be starting 12 weekly Taxol treatments on 9/27.  My heart goes out to each and every one of you -- young or oldish (I am 62) our families need us for a long, long time yet.

    Sending hugs to those getting treatment/surgery, recovering from treatment/surgery, and everyone just coping each and every single day.  I am so glad that I can come here every day and realize that I am not alone.  I have great support of family and friends but as many others have said, they just don't understand all of the time.

  • allurbaddayswillend
    allurbaddayswillend Member Posts: 355
    edited September 2012

    all I can say today is (((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))

    that and I think I'll take up the ganja...

  • mcook301
    mcook301 Member Posts: 509
    edited September 2012

    Pink- thanks for article @tazzy- glad you are enjoying your new greenhouse!



    Mmm? So now I have a good excuse to use that present from my friend:)

  • Moonflwr912
    Moonflwr912 Member Posts: 6,856
    edited September 2012

    TO ALL, no one ever said you have to be jolly all the time. So just be yourself vent away. Together we can handle it, and we all take turns carrying the load, sometimes we are the load. We are here. All we can do.



    Re: mammos, I had my base line about 45. Then I didn't get one til I was 56. I was Dx at 57. They wanted to compare my baseline, but, THEY LOST IT . They never did find it, and they actually asked me if I really got one. Duh, its not something you forget. And since there was only one clinic in the area, it had to be done at that place. They merged about 5 times during that ten years, and they lost it, so it made absolutly no difference. oh well.

    Much love

  • Moonflwr912
    Moonflwr912 Member Posts: 6,856
    edited September 2012

    TO ALL, no one ever said you have to be jolly all the time. So just be yourself vent away. Together we can handle it, and we all take turns carrying the load, sometimes we are the load. We are here. All we can do.



    Re: mammos, I had my base line about 45. Then I didn't get one til I was 56. I was Dx at 57. They wanted to compare my baseline, but, THEY LOST IT . They never did find it, and they actually asked me if I really got one. Duh, its not something you forget. And since there was only one clinic in the area, it had to be done at that place. They merged about 5 times during that ten years, and they lost it, so it made absolutly no difference. oh well.

    Much love

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2012

    My husband stumbled across this the other day and I wanted to share: beboldbebald.org

    Its the video on the home page that gets me. Interesting way for folks to raise some money and awareness. So thought I'd share. Get a tissue ready for the video - but not in a tragic way. Just touching. Especially for you mommies out there.

    Hugs to all!

  • bevg49
    bevg49 Member Posts: 739
    edited September 2012

    Marijuana should be legal. Period. End of story. It has proven to be of great value medicinally for so many conditions. Aside from that, let the government stay out of our personal lives. Alcohol is legal... How do you square that away? Before you think I'm a pothead, I don't smoke. I admit, growing up in the 60's, I certainly did but now that I'm IN my 60's, I don't anymore.... I've always thought it should be legal though. It helps so many things, it can help the economy by being taxed, and it can help the economy even more by helping to end the silly, wasteful "war on drugs" that has never worked. Just my opinion. This has nothing really to do with BC but it is one of my pet peeves and was just a little personal rant lol.

  • Moonflwr912
    Moonflwr912 Member Posts: 6,856
    edited September 2012

    Bev, I happen to agree with you. And I never smoked at all!

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