Question for Mom about surgery and LE
Mom is 82 years old, has significant leg LE from node removal, and will now have a very delicate eye procedure done ( a glaucoma drain) where no strain or bending is allowed for at least 6 weeks.
The question is how will mom possibly put the stocking on after surgery? I cannot do it for her because of my own LE (breast cancer).
This made me think of the whole "sick day" issue, when we feel too crappy to change the sleeve or put a new one on. What do people do? Mom does have an LE therapist, but she used all her benefits this year I think. (medicare). Our medical people here don't really believe in LE...so I am not sure how to get help for mom.
Comments
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Crystal, I absolutely love this donning devise:
http://www.doffanddonner.com/newsite/
Under the video, click on "skip intro" and it'll show you a set of videos you can watch to see how easy it is. My fitter and I played with this a couple of months ago when I was in for a fitting, and it was easy and (shall I admit it?!
) fun! I have no idea how much they cost, but they work like a dream for leg garments with the toe. Doesn't work if it's not a closed garment (like an arm sleeve).
Another fairly easy donner is the Ezy-As:
This one works for arms and legs both (different sizes), and there's an extension that you can use if you can't bend over. It takes a bit of strength to put the stocking over the donner, so not sure how good that would be for doing it herself, but it would be something you could do for her and then she could pull it on herself.
Not believing in LE seems to be a problem all over. What is so hard to believe about a fat limb?!
<sigh!>
Binney -
Not understanding! What about arm LE prevents you from helping your Mom? I deal with LE (have for 2+ yrs) but does not stop me from doing what I need/want to (so wish I still had my Mom).
You don't "change" your sleeve/glove for days? Why not? I take my day garments off every night before I put my night sleeve on. I use my Flexi-Touch (MLD machine) every morning before putting my day garments on. Depending on what I/we do during the day - I will change sleeve/glove as needed during the day.
Day and night garments work differently - active/passive.
There are some hard plastic forms that allow for someone to put garments on - even legs.
Not understanding! -
Kicks, depending on the compression class, leg garments are way harder to put on than our arm sleeves. I use a very low compression (15-20mm/Hg) on my lower right leg, and some mornings its all I can do to get them over my heel. I dread the thought of having to go up to even a 20-30 (though if I do I'm getting a "Doff'n'Donner" for sure!
), but for many people with leg LE the standard compression is even higher than that (the point being that with legs, gravity is a huge factor in making the process of pumping lymph fluid back up to the core really difficult!) If I were trying to put a compression stocking on someone else, my arm and chest LE would definitely object.
I think the hard plastic donner you're talking about is the Ezy-As that I linked above. Once the stocking is on the hard plastic donner it's fairly easy to put on, but someone who has just had delicate eye procedures and is not supposed to strain is not going to be able to get in onto the donner herself. So if Crystal can get there every day to help that's an option, but if she can't, the Doff'n'Donner's a better choice.
Crystal, for sick days I wrap--it's a pain when I'm not feeling well, but it works so well and it's so adjustable that I'm way more comfortable. If it gets to feeling too tight or too loose I remove only the top layer and re-wrap, which is much less effort than doing the whole thing. Not ideal, but the best I can do.
Be well!
Binney -
Do not see how leg compression garments can be that much harder based on what I have seen. Not something I've dealt with personally but have seen education to many men while waiting to see my CLE. Different ones had different plastic 'help' and some just did it themselves. It's probably easier than for me to put my garments on day or night using theh'gizzos'..
I can understand that 'Momma' will be somwhat limited after eye surgery BUT arm LE does not keep Daughter from assisting. Mom
You wouldn't want to help someone (your Mom)? (In this case the Mom - that's your personal choice.) I will never understand that illogic reaction. Yes - there can be some limitation when dealing with LE but to make no effort to help Mom?. That does not mean that one becomes an invalid that can't do anything.
Sorry - perhaps you can't/wouldn't do anything to help someone in your family - that's your choice. I do deal with LE BUT I deal with it and live my LIFE! I won't decide to bne an invalid that can do nolthing. Perhaps that's your choice BJuT not mine as long as I dtaw breats. I'm alive and there is no way I will ever undersatand why some choose to not live a LIFE!
LE DX is only a DX and not the end of life as you lived it UNLESS' you' choose it to be. Ith does not prevent 'you' from doing what 'you' need to do - caring for Mom - unless she didn't care for you as a child.
Certainly I can understand how a Mom could have problems after eye survgery but I can not understand why a daughter claims she can't do anything to help Mom because she has arm LE. and -
Crystal--Living with my 90 yr old mother I know how hard it is to have to help her with things with my LE. Is there not a neighbor who can help? Maybe wrapping her instead of stocking daily for a few weeks would be easier. Just getting on compression stockings for travel makes my trunk ache. And mine are very low compression! I agree with Binney that getting it over the heel is a bear. I do hope somehow it all works out for you. We have a caretaker (for her mother-in-law) at our support group meetings who has offered to help anyone locally when needed. Even had a card made. She is a saint! We need more of those.
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Thank you for the kind comments. We will skip past the unkind ones.
Mom's stocking is groin- high, 20/30 compression and wow, is it a struggle even with the donner because it only works up to the knee. I have tried to get it on her but with my shoulder issues, I just cannot get it in place, and then she cries :-( I also feel she strains as I work it up, and she won't be able to strain.
I will look more into this, ...and we have never been taught to wrap. I will call the therapist to see if she can teach us to wrap. it seems like the best option.
Watching that one video of the little kid doing it makes me wonder why mom's is so miserably tight? but then, up to the knee is not really too bad. It is the thigh and groin.
Thank you for your help, it will only be about a few weeks, and we will get through it. I really appreciate the positive comments!!
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Since you're familiar with all this, Crystal, it should be fairly easy to learn to wrap her leg. It would keep her from straining, but it will still not be easy for you, as you'll have to support the leg and there's a lot of leaning over involved. So be sure to have the therapist not only show you, but watch you do it so she can give you some tips about managing the weight of the leg. Since it's layered, you can rest between layers and do some slow, gentle arm exercises before applying the next layer.
My, the learning curves we face with LE!
Do keep us posted and let us know how it goes. Greetings to your mom, too!
Binney -
Bless you, Crystal! Thinking of you and admiring your restraint. Your mother is fortunate to have you!
Dawn -
I agree on the restraint you've shown. It's not very encouraging when you ask for help, and responses include those who would deny you have a problem.
This is such a dilemma, Crystal. In our perfect world, you could ask for some home-care assistance, but I know for sure that the nurse who came to help me after my bmx/recon would not have known a thing about LE care and donning garments. I suspect that's the rule and not the exception. Are there young people in the family who might come by, taking turns daily, to help with the tug-and-pull of the garment donning? My family organized a wound-care team for my mother in law at one point...my father in law just could not change some post-surgical dressings well, so we all came over during a home-nurse visit to learn the procedure, and then took turns.
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Crystal, how's your mom doing? Thinking of you both!
Hugs,
Binney -
We are still in a holding pattern waiting for the eye surgery...the doctor will select the best moment to do this complicated procedure.
So we still don't have real good answers that are do-able yet. it has me thinking LE issues have not been in the forefront ever, so I expect there aren't too many women being currently treated in their 80's for LE. This problem of not being able to pull compression on will get more tricky as we all age.
I have learned no nurse will put compression stockings on. Not the groin high kind and not the medical grade compression, just those flimsy things you wear in a hospital, they will put those on. And no, we have no young people in our family which is a different worry. I am "her" or "it". And I am 57.
But a young 57 :-)
So considering we have no real concrete answers, I am glad the eye surgery was put off until November. I have a strong feeling the "answer" will be to let her leg swell again, and she will get benefits again after jan.1st, and the therapist will come out again and work the leg back down. Like a backwards sort of medicine if you ask me.
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Crystal--At the NLN conference I attended Solaris has a new product coming out. It was for the leg and was similar to the Reid Sleeve. It goes around the leg and you velcro the amount of compression needed. They also had one for the arm. It is much easier to put on and you can determine the amount of compression needed based on the swelling or decrease of swelling. My therapist was with me when they were showing them to us and she tried one on her arm. We had talked about how this might have been better for me to have had on my arm since I kept losing weight and my compression sleeves kept getting too big too quickly. She also said it could be beneficial for older patients who cannot tolerate wrapping or get it on. It was very lightweight. I know other companies make something similar. If your Mom has an LE therapist you could explore the options. More attention needs to be made for older patients who cannot handle what is expected of them.
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Becky, I am researching this as soon as I send off this note. This really could be a solution, something I could do for her. And your timing is perfect because mom needs to buy a new one in October.
I feel so much lighter now, I will call her LE next week, I doubt she has heard of this, so she needs the time to research it too.
Thank you!!!!!!
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Becky, brilliant!
Crystal, check out both Farrow Wrap
https://www.farrowmedical.com/and Juxta-fit
http://www.circaid.com/products/juxta-fit/custom_whole_leg_afw.phpThey're two other velcro-wrap options. I have the Juxta-fit for my lower leg and find it comfortable. Another option is a Solaris or Jovi night leg garment with a full-length zipper. Her therapist will have experience with all of them and be able to steer her.
Yee-ha!
Binney -
Crystal, Biacare has something similar, too, and their product may be lower cost than some others. I hope you find something that works for your mom.
Oh, and for the record, 57 is very, very young (58 too, I should know)! -
Brilliant, and so wonderful to know these things are available.
Thank you all for caring so much!! You have made my life and Mom's life so much better. I will let you know how it goes.
denise
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Crystal, Aren't these girls wonderful in problem solving. What would we do without our experts. Stick with them for life!
Just for the record: My vain sweet 87 year old mom would never let me near her groin even though I would be strong enough to rassle the Leg garment on! She won't even let me cut her toe nails!
You are a wonderful caring daughter and you mom is so fortunate to have you.
A BIG SLOPPY KISS FOR YOU! And a round of chocolate covered peanuts for all!
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Awwww.thank you for my big sloppy wet kiss :-) Bigger kisses back at you! :-)
YES!!!!!! The people here are the most compassionate caring women I have ever met. It felt risky on my part to ask about leg LE because this is a breast board, but you all have come through for me with flying colors, I am so amazed, we have answers.
I have printed the photos off so Mom can see them and adjust mentally to the "new look" and she will. And now I can see this is a good thing no matter what for mom to have, even in spite of eye surgery. She is 82 and needs compression wear that she can manage on days when she doesn't feel too good.
So we are moving forward looking into this, calls being waited for by the LE therapist.
You have taken a terrible worry from mine and Mom's shoulders and provided very good workable answers!!
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"Do not see how leg compression garments can be that much harder based on what I have seen."
KicksJust as an FYI, I had to wear compression stockings when I was in my 40's due to low BP and poor circulation. They really can be quite a struggle----even for somebody who had no significant impairment at that time. A big PITA they were, I can tell you that much.
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I just wanted to update you on this. The way it is going to happen is Mom will be given 2 weeks of therapy where an LE therapist will come and check on her, get the custom stocking on and off, and after 2 weeks, Mom and I should be able to deal with the custom stocking, which is easier than over the counter.
I am very pleased that this is considered "serious enough" along the lines of prevention that therapy will be available, mom lost 19 cm's in her thigh with LE therapy this past year, which is tremendous, and we don't want it back. I am thrilled the medical community agrees...so far.
If it goes on longer than 2 weeks, she needs a circaid, but they want $1000 out of pocket for that...so we are holding off.
Thank you all so very much!!
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Oh, Crystal, that's great news!
She must be so pleased to be taken seriously. Does she know how rare that is?
Also great about the reduction she's gotten from therapy. That must seriously impact her ability to get around, and clearly that's progress you can't afford to lose. Thanks so much for keeping us posted,
Binney
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