Early Stage Natural Girls!
Comments
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http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/may2000/niehs-15.htm
Let us add to the SEs for Tamoxifen, for instance, that after what decades of research???? it was added to the National Institute of Health's list as a known carcinogen, proven for uterine cancer (that would be after it was prescribed to real women with breast cancer and was proven) and I am game to say unknown for other cancer all not proven while they are still checking into the possibility of this being a KNOWN carcinogen for liver cancer in humans after it was proven for rats.... but.... that will take a few more years.
On all of the drugs, less is better, only when I am literally in need to save my life, like pneumonia. For me, no one can talk me into it given the track record of the companies prescribing and it is my choice.
Heart SEs, who wants to mess with that one. Lung? Cancer of liver?
Got enough going on. There are other ways, without the gamble of rxs taking me over the edge. Cancer is enough to deal with while using stuff that is helping me feel peaceful and stronger.
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OK i want to start thread that is 100% topic natural hormone treatment & research for those of us who already know hormone blocker or ovary removal is not an option for us. DECISION process is different topic. Original poster already decided (me too). Dont want to defend our decision - just want to focus on natural treatments and move forward - not keep going in circles about which corporate med might work. That is different topic!
Should i make separate thread for this?
Wish to respect original poster & all others. -
Natkat
This actually IS the appropriate thread!
All I mean to say is that the very same debate could occur if you created a 'new' thread, because look at the top - EARLY STAGE NATURAL GIRLS. That about says it...natural meaning alt. natural treatments in place of the ones drug companies have the DRs rx ing.
I guess with this number of ppl. , you are bound to get an opinion popping up here and there which I personally think is fine as long as they are not disrespectful. I do understand the feeling of going 'round in circles.
Still, I belive this actually is the right thread!
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Essa, that was my main reason for skipping the tamox, the possibility of uterine cancer. My aunt had it, so I figure I am predisposed already, and my cancer is lobular (likes to jump down there next anyway). I was 47 at dx and nowhere near menopause, so I was also looking at being on the tamox for a long time.
We definitely need better treatments. -
I like to think I'm a "natural girl" which is why I read here. I never used chemical birth control, went through menopause naturally, don't colour my hair, considered piercing my ears when faced with losing my hair to chemo (I also don't wear makeup), but reconsidered. I don't really know where corporations come into the discussion. Corporations make all sorts of products including organic.
DianeEssa, that was the 9th edition of the carcinogenic list that included tamoxifen, back in 1997. Estrogen was added in the 10th edition. We are now on the 12th which has added alcoholic beverages and UV radiation.
http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/?objectid=03C9F0A4-B1C2-31DE-ABA8508AE9949C57
purple32 have you considered cutting the time you spend on an AI rather than cutting the dosage? My risk is higher than yours because of the positive node so felt I needed some sort of systemic treatment to catch any existing cancer tumour, but there was no way that I (at the time) thought I could or wanted to be under tx for five years. I don't do pills very well. That is the reason I accepted chemo, so I could, if I wanted,be through with treatment in months rather than years. I was 65 so quality of life in upcoming years was important.
I was though willing to give Armidex at least a try, then found out I had osteoporosis just after starting so had to take a bisphosphate if I wanted to continue. Did I mention I don't do pills very well? I take Etidronate, it is an older bisphospate approved for osteoporisis in Canada and the UK andis prescribed by some doctors in the US off label.
Four months after starting Armidex my husband, who also had cancer, progressed to stage IV. I didn't feel in my heart that I could stop taking treatment when he hadn't even been offered adjuvant treatment with his cancer, and look what happened. He's gone now, so that is no longer a consideration. I had a two year followup bone density test in June and the results were good, no significant change over the previous test, so I am considering stopping the Etidronate, (taking a break at the moment) and maybe the Armidex too. I see no advantage at my age to go the full 5 years. I've been on over two years the most likely time to have reoccurance.
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purple32 have you considered cutting the time you spend on an AI rather than cutting the dosage?
No Kathy
Not with these bones. It sounds like youir bone profile remained stable. Mine went way down hill ON the bisphosphate. After breaking three bones, I'm just not able to put myself out there in that way. I wish I had come into this without the thin bones. I would have hopped right on that train. Without the copd, I would have had radiation. But, this is my reality. One year on arimidex could easily put me into osteoporosis which is potentially life threatening. Just as I would not INTENTIONALLY do something that was causative for cancer, I cant bring myself to dose my body with a pill that alccelerates bone loss with such ferosity and speed. Mother Nature has been unkind enough to me when it comes to the bone loss.
I am very sorry about your husband. Mine had stage 4 cancer three yrs ago ( he is ok now )
But, he had app 1 yr chemo rads, 2 big surgeries etc etc ........He went into it healthy. We have different cancers, different stages, different profiles.
I guess that is why there are so many differnet opinions.
Makes the world go round ( and round and round :>)
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I would just like some alternative suggstions that don't invove Tamox or an AI. Googling alternative treatments pretty much just gets you AI info over Tamox. I've never been a true natural girl. I dye my hair, wear make up. etc. But as I've become older and experienced helath effects that were directly related to diet, I have become natural in that sense regarding food and medicines. We all have or reasons to or not to. I have mine you have yours. I get that. Different strokes and all that. I just want to know what the "not to" people are doing as an alternative so I can include that information in my reasoning and desicion making. So far I haven't learned much in that regard. No disrespect to anyone intended.
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Mini1
Have you looked into DIM, I3C, or grapeseed extract ? Ask ppl here about those.
Unforutunately, I also have a goiter (and a half dozen other things it seems !) and cruciferous vegs ( eg DIM) are well known to make a goiter grow. My goiter has hot and cold nodules so I dont really feel like fertilizing a thyroid cancer. Damn catch 22s !In any case, those are the first 3 I researched.
Frankly, I am getting a liitle tiried of ppl arguing with me about how I am " Not doing everything" I should be doing ( on another thread) I am not feeling much of a sisterhood on the forum lately.
Good luck and best wishes to you!
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Purple sorry you're not feeling a sisterhood lately. I also have thyroid issues, so need to be caseful with DIM which I tried. It was strange the hot flashes from it were worse than from the Femara go figure. I don't know if green tea with fgs would be something you could use. I've looked at it, and considered it.
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I've been looking at DIM on my own and put a couple of messages out there but haven't gotten much response. I go see my onco doc about it on the 23. I don't know what he'll say. I have an idea, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until we chat. Found a naturopath (sp?) nearby. I have to check her out, but I'll likely make an appintment to at least see what she has to say.
I think there are just so many people here and so many opinions it's almost like talking politics. You're right or you're wrong. Not much in between. I understand that there are people that are at a point where they would be happy to try anything. I also respect those that won't. Years ago when my husband had cancer they recommended chemo for him. He said no at first. I was really upset. I felt like he wasn't doing all he could. He had me and our kids to think about not just himself. Now I totally get it. He did end up having a major surgery and chemo - that was almost 30 years ago. Never a problem since.
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Thanks, Kira.
Green tea with fgs ???
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Thanks for updated link Kathy, I copied wrong one from my bookmarks I see.... the point being, the medical profession is slow on gleaning info at their disposal and FDA is not keeping us safe when they could be so I am not taking chances.
What I am doing since I am not doing Arimidex ( btw, two drs tried to put me on Tamox and it would have been wrong one for me to begin with, great huh)
- I am taking chastetree berry extract powder which controls estrogens,
- I use a combination of aromatic oils with pink grapefruit and helichrysim,
- take a DIM supplement a few times a week, cannot do more bcz of thyroid.
- I decided a few weeks ago to begin using bioidentical progesterone cream (vaginally so used by body like the progesterone from ovaries) but use this conservatively and not every day. The progesterone, i was terrified of until I found some mind-blowing info -you will find itposted on bco on the natural progesterone and hormone threads. Then I wish I had not beed so afraid, it could have been helping me with the ER+ through the PR+, but did not know and was led astray by drs who did not know facts either. Do not do as I mention here, use your research buttons, please, it was a hard choice for me to take this chance but with the PR+ for me, it can work.
- My diet is phytoestrogen heavy as these are a positive, I believe. Also B-17 heavy.
- Eat black beans cooked in seaweed, black beans being a huge phytoestrogen that is the best to soak up excess estrogen.
- Do not eat dairy that has been pasturized and it must come from the organic herd, I make my own soured dairy products, kefir, cottage cheese, yogurt, etc. I gave up ice cream for teh most part, it is huge in estrogens, like drinking a gallon of milk. Most of these I mix in the Budwig combination with the flaxseed oil, be careful to do it right.
- Gave up meat for most part except what comes from an organic all natually raised farm, and I am strict on this.
- I do not use anything on my body or through dishwashing or laundry that contributes to the chemical load which is usually pro-estrogen, this includes propylene glycol and all that stuff and all the derivatives.
- I do not swim in pools w chlorine and I take our water to restaurants.
- And I do not get around anything that is xenoestrogen, we even gave up our last house, lost everything to save my life and fled due to the xenoestrogens from the neighbor's outside wood burning furnace which was llike a diesel truck fuming outside my home all day and night 365/yr.
- Without the tamox and Arimidex, etc. we must be willing to go to any lengths just like without the chemo or rads, it is aggressive choices that never end.
I am still seeking what to do, balancing my act. Probably more to add to list, will add as I remember.
Yes, Momine, we need better tx.
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Essa, where did you find this black bean and seaweed idea?
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Mini,
If you also have goiter, please research IODINE and breast cancer. Visit the below website and read about the possible link between breast cancer and iodine. I'm NOT advocating - just encouraging you to research it and see if it fits your condition:
http://www.breastcancerchoices.org/Purple,
I went ahead and made another thread specific to NATURAL treatments to ER+ breast cancers. New thread for sharing specific targeted research and treatments. Pliease visit that thread if you want specifics rather than general.LOL I dye my hair and do my nails (sometimes) but I believe that natural medicine is every bit as effective (if not moreso) than the corporate creepshow drugs which reflect a woeful lack of understanding about the complex interrelationships of metabolic processes in our bodies. Corporate medicine tends to cure a single symptom and count that a "success" even if the so-called cure causes a host of other pathologies or eventually kills the patient. Real naturopathic medicines (ie. Ayurveda, TCM, Herbology, etc - NOT quackery) take the whole patient into consideration and do not propose to cure one pathology whilst causing a host of others. Very glad I live in a world where modern surgical techniques can remove my tumor ... but skipping the creepshow drugs, thank you.
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NatKat - no goiter, but thaks for the heads up.
I have such a problem that we are all given the same treatment even though we are all very different. They didn't use the same amount of anesthsia for us when we had surgery. What would kill me may not even make someone else sleepy. They don't take out the exact amount of tissue, or use the same location for those of us that received radiation. Yet they routinely give the same type and amount of medicine to us all. And why? Because during research they found 40mg did too much harm, but 20 seemed ok, so that's the amount. Really? Maybe those of us that get the side effects get them because we are being over-medicated. Maybe some of us only need part of what we are being asked to take. Maybe we only need 5 mg or 10. But we wouldn't want to research something that would end up with them selling less medication than they already are.
I'm sorry for the rant. I just get so po'd that we're just supposed to take whatever they say we should and be grateful and not think about everything else that they may be giving us that we don't need and is hurting us. There are some very good medicines that are out there and I'm glad there is, but I don't think the cure should be worse than the disease. And I don't think the cure for one CA should increase your chances of getting another one.
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Momine ::: Seriously, I had no idea..... clueless, hearing all the fears about eating anything that was 'estrogenic', I was gnawing my nails with confusion. So I did not 'find this black bean and seaweed idea.' Sometimes it is weeks before I come back to a thread, so a way to find out more on what I have shared on bco is do a search here, DianeEssa and keyword black beans. I don't mind. With my memory, even I had to to so. Here is some info I recall for the sake of people who would like to know more. This is a staple for me, and though not my favorite food eeeeyuk, I consider it medicine for me, nutritionally.
links are below with notes as to why I include them.....
The information was part of a protocol for which I paid dearly and cherish for its results even though I do my own thing at times, since cancer morphs, I morph my alt choices. (That was theorized by the famous scientist Bechamp durng Pasteur's time and proven by Dr. Rife in 1930s.)
When the black beans were on protocol, I researched the estrogen, progesterone, phytoestrogen information for literally HOURS and in several books I had at home and indeed discovered that the black beans are the most beneficial legume of all legumes. And moreseo than citrus phytoestrogens (flavanones) and fruits and vegetable phytoestrogens (lignans). The black beans are the most desired from the isoflavones and the most powerful are the coumestans.
The black beans are cooked in seaweed because that is the way the brand I purchase prepares them. (Eden's, organic and they test for toxins prior and line cans.) I could prepare them myself in seaweed or otherwise, but I prefer the extra nutritional support which seaweed gives, especially after being recommended to me by both the integrative medical doctor / patholgist and the acupuncturist / Chinese nutritionist who we will not call a doctor for the sake of that not being allowed no matter how much healing information that one has given over the decades. Something about seaweed liquifying the bile and cleansing liver, highly important.
http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/79/topic/789228?page=1#post_3071445 a discussion on phytoestrogens where one of our dear members explained the concept so I could understand and stop questioning, thus my research began in earnest. Started to research online and in my books and mags, hours and hours,
http://www.motherearthherbs.com/phytosterols.html because no one explained this better than this woman. After two days of reading, I posted this link on bco too.
And in the book, Outsmart Your Cancer, I discovered quite a bit of information on the subject. I had that book as an ebook but purchased it in print a few months ago and found it. I recommend to anyone, get print book at the library or buy it and read it five times cover to cover, you will learn what you never knew you need to know. Oh, and especially , maybe even first, read the chapter on Rife Technology, will make you sick at heart and give more hope.
Later.
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Adding, Dr. Rife built a microscope so he could see the bacteria and the viruses while they lived (his micro did not kill them by viewing) Rife found two that were cancer causing, proven, BX for carcinoma and BY for sarcoma. He used his technology to treat the cancer patient individually, testing the virus to see waht MOR would kill the cancer and cell. He used individualized frequencies for the patients. 1934, southern CA clinic, Dr. Milbank Johnson set up research, in 70 days, 14 out of 16 terminal cancer patients were cured. Within another 60 days the last two were cured. Other doctors obtained the technology (ray tubes then) and had a 90% success rate. And on and on the stories go, read read read. 714X, Laetrile, so many more blocked. There is a vaccine in Ohio, doctor cannot get the funding to help us though. Like I said, can make you heartsick, but there is hope.
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Purple, Sorry I just saw you question, I haven't been near a computer for days. It's green tea with sgs.
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Mini: So well said ! This has been my concern all along. I am 76 and can't possibly have the same amount of estrogen as someone who is younger. I also am very sensitive to all drugs and passed out one time because I was being over-medicated.
I also agree that taking other pills to cure SEs is ridiculous as all pills have SE. Why ask for more?
But the onc wanted to keep me on Fosamax due to my extreme osteoporosis. I started having jaw pain and other issues so am no longer taking it. At the same time I quit Aromasin due to the horrible SEs. He wants me to try another AI. I won't do it ---I am more worried about my bones and my heart. I had more heart palpitations with Aromasin. Every time you have atrial fib your chances of a stroke goes up.
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OK Kira...still dont think I can find that in my local store though- never heard if it.
THX
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Purple, it might not be too hard to find, here's one brand
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"I won't do it ---I am more worried about my bones and my heart. I had more heart palpitations with Aromasin. Every time you have atrial fib your chances of a stroke goes up."
dogs and jogs
You are 76 and ready for anoither AL? God love you! You didnt ask dear, but I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole if I were you. If you are still concerned about estrogern perhaps you can look into DIM or IC3. There have been studies saying there is little to no benefit to the other drugs in gals your age !
IMHO, non medical etc ... I would be MUCH more concerned about stroke or bone loss at your age (and am at 54 actually)
Best wishes to you! -
I'm more concerned with stroke or bone loss at my age and i'm 55.
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purple I would agree more than likely not in a walmart type store. As I said I've looked at the stuff, but hesitate I guess I kinda don't want to be taken advantage of. From what I've read up on it the SGS is similar to DIM but not sure. I went to there web page and did some research last year when I was trying to decide on going natural or using the meds. I like to stay on top of info just in case I have to stop the Aromasin. My Onc. has already told me if I have a reaction similar to what I had on Femara he will not give me anything else.
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Thanks for the support Purple! No, I don't want another AI. I have also had a broken wrist, broken hip (femur) since being to Fosamax. Another reason I quit taking it after 3 years.
My osteoporosis is quite bad. Recent bone density showed the other hip in "extreme danger of fracture."
Luckily both hip (3 pins inserted) and wrist (plate and screws) healed just great. I jog every day and want to keep it up as long as I can. The SEs from Aromasin kept me from doing my normal routine - it just wasn't worth it to me to keep on.
The onc still wants to discuss my situation---I can't believe he wanted me on a AI after knowing about my osteoporosis and atril fibrillation problem. I suppose he had to suggest SOMETHING--
I am going to look into DIM. Haven't done that yet
Thanks again!
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Thanks for the support Purple! No, I don't want another AI. I have also had a broken wrist, broken hip (femur) since being to Fosamax. Another reason I quit taking it after 3 years.
My osteoporosis is quite bad. Recent bone density showed the other hip in "extreme danger of fracture."
Luckily both hip (3 pins inserted) and wrist (plate and screws) healed just great. I jog every day and want to keep it up as long as I can. The SEs from Aromasin kept me from doing my normal routine - it just wasn't worth it to me to keep on.
The onc still wants to discuss my situation---I can't believe he wanted me on a AI after knowing about my osteoporosis and atril fibrillation problem. I suppose he had to suggest SOMETHING--
I am going to look into DIM. Haven't done that yet
Thanks again!
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Dogsandjogs - I know you like to jog but it is hard on the joints; even non-osteoporatic ones. Perhaps power walking would be a happy medium, or maybe an ellipitcal (sp?). Just thinking out loud.
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I agree with Mini dogs!
Mine is osteopenia but very close to osteoporosi,s and I was told walking was good but jogging was a FX risk- too high impact. No worries there - my lungs would never allow it anyhow. But since yours will- you may want to consider slowing down to a power walk...just ask your dr. -
Thanks, Essa.
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Mini: After my hip-pinning surgery the doc said "We don't normally advise people to jog or run who had this surgery, but if I tell you no you'll do it anyway, won't you?
Since it adds so much to my daily life I want to continue doing it. If down the line I will need a hip replacement so be it.
I do power walk twice a week during an exercise class. It is pretty intense, we walk as fast as we can while lifting 2lb weights overhead, to the side, etc. I also have an exercise bike.
My internist told me that jogging will make the bones stronger - he is in favor of my jogging.
Odd how doctors can't agree sometimes--
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