Heart Medicine Alternatives

Unless someone on here is a board certified cardiologist, you probably want to get advice from your doctors.  CHF is too serious of a condition to mess around with ..  if you're really concerned about possible side effects from medications, speak to your cardiologist, and see if he can send you to cardiac rehab (basically monitored exercise) to improve your heart function, and discuss your concerns about the side effects with them.  Usually exercise helps build muscle, but in your case, it should absolutely be monitored. 

I don't know how advanced your condition it, or how old your are, but if they gave you 2 medications, it's probably serious enough that you should only make changes your medical team agrees to.  And you'll probably need medical permission to begin any exercise program.

I understand your concerns, but when it's a vital bodily function, such as heart, lungs, or kidneys, it's usually best to stick with board certified specialists, and not try to self-medicate.

That doesn't mean that with proper care, and exercise and time that your heart function won't improve and allow you to get off your medications. It just means you probably should listen right now..

Eve, you do seem to have many adverse reactions to drugs so I don't blame you for being wary.  I was hoping your heart problems weren't that bad, and as the other replies have indicated, it's not something to be taken lightly.  You really need to get as much informed advice as you can from different sources, maybe the her2+ threads will have women in your position who have researched the options. 

I'm with Sweetbean, use guided imagery, also mindfulness and meditation to help with feelings of peace and calm as an adjunct to the medications and maybe you can reduce the meds after a while. You could imagine the drugs healing your heart each time you take them. This might relieve a lot of fear and stress so your heart has a chance to recover.

Without medication I believe your heart will be under too much stress and it's a slippery slope from there.  I've nursed many with this condition and my grandfather had it so I know what can happen to those who don't comply with the meds. On the other hand I believe some women do recover from this so keep hope alive.  I'm so sorry I couldn't come up with anything more useful.  I'll keep my eyes open for anything that might be helpful.

Hugs dear friend.

Eve, here are some supplements to consider for CHF.

 http://www.doctoryourself.com/congestive.html

Personally I'd take the CoQ-10 and definitely the taurine.   The taurine seems especially promising, "2-6 g/day in 2 or 3 divided doses".

 http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-1024-TAURINE.aspx?activeIngredientId=1024&activeIngredientName=TAURINE

it's even science-based...

evebarry

may I ask what your EF is now. rather what it was at your ladt echo

Eve, This is my understanding from memory and what I've read, please check with any Dr who is honest and you feel you can trust.  Most people have CHF for chronic underlying conditions that aren't going to get better so it's not recoverable for them. 

If it's caused by Herceptin and that's withdrawn then there is a chance it will get better, some people do, and some don't as you doubtlessly know from the Her2+ threads.  If it does go away of it's own accord then you may have been wise not to risk further SE's from the heart drugs, but if it gets worse then it can quickly gain momentum without the drugs.  So monitoring and taking the drugs at any sign of worsening would be critical if my understanding is correct.  Don't take my word for it as I'm not qualified and this is too important to leave to anyone's uninformed opinion.

You are doing the right thing by resting up and staying away from stress.  I hope you have lots of inspiring music and people to surround yourself with in the next few weeks and your heart is able to recover.

Sending love,

Joy

Evebarry.

At 44% you are really ok to wait. That is just mildly reduced lv function. If it was 10-15% it would be a far differnt story. At this point folow your cards advice but let him know you want alternative methods. Normal is pretty much 55-60, some even go with 50 as a normal. 65 is high normal. 75 as some have posted is not a normal resting ef. Its hyperdynamic and not good for your heart. That would be a good exercise ef. Keep jn mind muga scans tend to estimate higher than echos and your resting ef is the one to pay attention to. God luck with your testing.

I've been looking at weedgirl's first link and I'd be wary of the advice given about selenium on that web page.  He's saying to take selenium supps then further down the page he says to eat Brazil nuts for Potassium and Methionine (see Taurine). 

If you took both the Brazil nuts and Selenium supps that could be a toxic overdose.  From Wikipedia...

Brazil nuts are perhaps the richest dietary source of selenium; one ounce can contain as much as 10 times the adult USRDA (U.S. Recommended Dietary Allowances), more even than the Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL), although the amount of selenium within batches of nuts varies greatly...    Although selenium is an essential trace element, it is toxic if taken in excess. Exceeding the Tolerable Upper Intake Level of 400 micrograms per day can lead to selenosis...

I've known about selenium toxicity since studying nutrition decades ago so that makes me question the validity of the whole site, shouldn't the author check for such errors before publishing to the web?  So I suggest you follow up the recommendations from reliable web sites before utilising any of them.

ETA, I do appreciate the web site which gives a good starting point for supps to investigate but not to take the author's word.

I take selenium for bc, but I'm careful with the brazil nuts too because there's no good way to know how much you're getting.  If I eat brazils I sometimes even skip my supp.  If you're going to use selenium as medicine I think it's better to just take a Se-methylselenocysteine supp up to 400mcg.  Just my opinion... I agree it's best to research any new supps (or meds for that matter).

But here's another good one for heart problems... cayenne!

Interesting inteview with Dr. Richard Schulze (seems like he put cayenne in lots of his formulas): http://dietgest.blogspot.com/2007/09/unknown-facts-about-cayenne-pepper-and.html

From Medline Plus

Carvedilol 

Lisinopril 

Hi Joy. My guy thought man could live on meat alone until age 65 when he ended up with severe CHF, and he is on the cardiac drugs too. He is also having to take on the chore of minimizing carbs in addition, due to possible early diabetes. I have thus far avoided the temptation to say "I TOLD YOU SO..."

A.A.

Joy

I dont know how how to explain it cause its too complicated for my wee little mind but look up preload and afterload. That is what those meds are for. Very basically the more your left ventricle can relax between each contraction the harder it can sqeeze which gives you the ejection fraction. If your hr is slower the lv has more time to relax and if your arteries are more relaxed the less work the lv has to do to get that sqeeze. Im betting youll be able to explain far better than I.

lol joy. i kind of had you pegged for spectrum after reading several of your posts. you remind me a lot of my husband who is definately spectrum without a dx. the apple does not fall far from the tree in our house. and i mean this as the highest compliment to you. enjoy your trip.

chf is congestive heart failure.

130/100 is a little high...specifically the 100 which is your diastolic pressure. that alone could be a reason for either one of those meds. it needs to come down soon so it doesnt cause damage to your heart and arteries. maybe you could start with the meds then work on some alternative ways to decrease your bp and strengthen your heart. and you should really monitor that bp yourself. if that bottom number gets to 110 call your dr right away.