VERY discouraged

Purple - I was reading something the other day that said that "osteopenia" is a name that was made up by pharmacuetical companies to create a market for biophosphases. It said that they are using the data of young women and comparing it to pre and post-monopausal women. When you are younger you have more calcium in your bones and they are heavier because we need them to be for child bearing. When we no longer need the extra bone and calcium, the body naturaly sheds the unnnecessary bone and calcium. They said it is natural for some bone loss to occur, but "natural" doesn't require a "cure" and therefore they basically created a market for their product.

If you do not yet have osteoporosis, diet and exercise can keep it bay without the side effects of more drugs. I think I am going to try and stay on my AI and see if I can keep my osteoporosis where it is now - just over the line from osteopenia to osteoporosis - since I tolerate my AI well. I don't want to lose more bone, but I tolerate my current medication well and having to change to Tamox scares me. I had horrible side effects with Anastrazole and I don't want to risk having that experience with Tamox. If my next bone density shows a worsening I can change at that point. From what I've read Tamox actually increasies bone mass slightly, so likely I would gain back anything I may lose over the course of the year.

Purple, There is no risk to the arms in heel drops or most spine exercises where the arms aren't used and they don't stress the heart and lungs.  BC women become dragon boat racers by building their strength very slowly and it doesn't cause lymphedema if done carefully. If I remember correctly, those who already have lymphedema can help it with gentle exercise.  I had a full axillary clearance on one side and sentinel node in the other so I'm very wary about lymphedema. 

I also have full blown osteoporosis though I'm too young to have breaks from it yet.  I suspect there's more to fracture susceptibility than what they can see on the DXA scans as some with osteopenia have breaks and others with osteoporosis don't get any, despite being the same age.

I'm busy now, but will start a thread in the bones section about gentler exercise for those like me who can't or don't like to run or for others who can't do vigorous exercise.

Well said Notself.  I've been pruning and there's a lot to do so I time myself, gradually building up so I don't strain anything.  If I miss a week or more then I cut back the time and build up again.  I found just 15 minutes caused a burning sensation afterwards at first.  They say to rest the shoulder and arm for the first few weeks after a MX now but I did the recommended exercises 3 years ago and fortunately no harm was done.

Purple - I had the same lyphedema concerns. I asked my OT about weights, since I was a lifter before surgery. She said I could use 3-5lb hand weights and a max of 30lb on resisitence machines. No more 10-20lbs for big muscle workouts. I was told that weight vests weren't good for the spine. Too big of a chance of making an incorrect movement and hurting the spine and they can also create too much compression on the spine. As always, I'll throw out the disclaimer that we are all different so you'll want to talk to you docs, but I was encouraged that I can lift at least lift light hand weights.

Also has been recommended that at least 50% of every meal be raw foods. I have also learned that too much dairy actually has the opposite effect on the bones. It causes your bones to express calcium during digestion. That made sense to me since I have always consumed a lot of dairy until recent years when I couldn't tolerate it. If lots of dairy consumption helped bones mine should be great. My sister (same size/build) consumes hardly any and has great bones. Now I find that what I thought was helping my bones was actually hurting it. So I'm sticking to just soft cheeses and greek yogurt. 

Purple, I had many more nodes out than you and during chemo, my arm did start to swell. I started PT and kept it up, do my stretches daily and wear a sleeve often (daily now that it is hot). After 4-5 months of PT, the arm was down to ormal size again. It does act up here and there, but it is minor usually.



At first I was given the normal advice not to do anything strenuous with the arm and no weights. I have since seen newer studies which show that you CAN lift weights and I do. I wear a sleeve and gauntlet when exercising. I stick to really, really small weights (2 pounds for free weights and lowest setting on upper body machines). I work out regularly. Apparently it is important to be steady about it and not do a bunch, then flake out, then do a bunch etc. So slow and steady.



So far I have not had a problem, and if anything the whole situation seems a bit better.

Purple, Thanks, I hadn't heard of that problem with weighted vests before but it makes sense.  I have some lovely flat soft sand filled weights that I intend to sew into a stretchy top so it shouldn't bother my flat chest area if I stay clear of the breastbone.  The main thing is to get equal weight between the front and back so my balance isn't thrown out.  If it causes a fall it would defeat the purpose.  I'll take it really easy at first to make sure there is no pressure on the spine so I'm most grateful you warned me of that potential problem. 

When I first found out I had osteoporosis over 2 years ago, I joined a gym and did a heap of exercises there and at home so I hope if I was going to have breaks they would have happened then.  I'm 61 and my youngest turns 20 tomorrow, so no more teenagers at home!  We had our family late.  I'm sorry you've had these problems and hope you can get back on track soon.

This is a more recent study.

Proc Nutr Soc. 2010 Feb;69(1):166-73. Epub 2009 Dec 3.
Postgraduate Symposium: Positive influence of nutritional alkalinity on bone health.
Wynn E, Krieg MA, Lanham-New SA, Burckhardt P.
Source

University Hospital (CHUV), 1011 Lausanne, Switzerland. emma.wynn@rdls.nestle.com
Abstract

There is growing evidence that consumption of a Western diet is a risk factor for osteoporosis through excess acid supply, while fruits and vegetables balance the excess acidity, mostly by providing K-rich bicarbonate-rich foods. Western diets consumed by adults generate approximately 50-100 mEq acid/d; therefore, healthy adults consuming such a diet are at risk of chronic low-grade metabolic acidosis, which worsens with age as a result of declining kidney function. Bone buffers the excess acid by delivering cations and it is considered that with time an overstimulation of this process will lead to the dissolution of the bone mineral content and hence to reduced bone mass. Intakes of K, Mg and fruit and vegetables have been associated with a higher alkaline status and a subsequent beneficial effect on bone health. In healthy male volunteers an acid-forming diet increases urinary Ca excretion by 74% and urinary C-terminal telopeptide of type I collagen (C-telopeptide) excretion by 19% when compared with an alkali (base-forming) diet. Cross-sectional studies have shown that there is a correlation between the nutritional acid load and bone health measured by bone ultrasound or dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry. Few studies have been undertaken in very elderly women (>75 years), whose osteoporosis risk is very pertinent. The EVAluation of Nutrients Intakes and Bone Ultra Sound Study has developed and validated (n 51) an FFQ for use in a very elderly Swiss population (mean age 80.4 (sd 2.99) years), which has shown intakes of key nutrients (energy, fat, carbohydrate, Ca, Mg, vitamin C, D and E) to be low in 401 subjects. A subsequent study to assess net endogenous acid production (NEAP) and bone ultrasound results in 256 women aged > or = 75 years has shown that lower NEAP (P=0.023) and higher K intake (P=0.033) are correlated with higher bone ultrasound results. High acid load may be an important additional risk factor that may be particularly relevant in very elderly patients with an already-high fracture risk. The latter study adds to knowledge by confirming a positive link between dietary alkalinity and bone health indices in the very elderly. In a further study to complement these findings it has also been shown in a group of thirty young women that in Ca sufficiency an acid Ca-rich water has no effect on bone resorption, while an alkaline bicarbonate-rich water leads to a decrease in both serum parathyroid hormone and serum C-telopeptide. Further investigations need to be undertaken to study whether these positive effects on bone loss are maintained over long-term treatment. Mineral-water consumption could be an easy and inexpensive way of helping to prevent osteoporosis and could be of major interest for long-term prevention of bone loss.

PMID: 19954569 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

We try to eat vegetables that are in season in North America.  It makes the fruits and vegetables taste that much better if we eat only for a season.  We mail order Fuerte Avocados from California. Fuerte is a winter avocado that is very smooth and buttery.  They don't do well for mass growers so one has to find a source.  I eat an avocado a day but by the end of the season in March, I am sick of them.  By Christmas I am desperate for a Fuerte. 

It's the same with berries, oranges, asparagus.  I think that in the case of fresh seasonal produce, absence does make the heart grow fonder.

Ummm, We have cancer. I don't think that learning all we can so we can make an informed decision about our treatment plans makes us "worrywarts." I agree with Purple. Our choices may not be the same as yours, but there is no need to be insulting about it. We are here to support each other not to criticize one another's decisions.

I read the comment as a joke because of the emoticon.  I don't think lisa intended to insult anyone. 

The two comments seemed to go together, i.e. the thing that might give you cancer is being a worrywart - then the emoticon.  In other words, the worry wart comment was part of the joke. It might not have hit the mark, but that's how I read the intention.