Still Uncomfortable with Implants

fatgrafting with much smaller implant --has certainly diminished the discomfort from the implant for me.

But --I still feel the implant.  Hoping for total relief when I have my implant removed with additional fatgrafting. 

Still quite pleased with fatgrafting--as post-surgery is easier to deal with--much quicker recovery time.

Eileen

I just found this info, which I thought was interesting:

"Scar tissue can develop and tighten in the incision area after breast cancer surgery, and the area might become hypersensitive. This hypersensitivity frequently occurs at the incision and drain site, and can make wearing a bra or clothing painful.

ASTYM treatment is a non-invasive soft tissue therapy using handheld tools to apply force to the tissue. The therapy "remodels" the tissue and provides a desensitizing effect. ASTYM treatment also may be used on other soft-tissue problems, such as shoulder tendonitis and elbow epicondylitis. Recognizing signs of pain and hypersensitivity and contacting an ASTYM- certified provider are important to help decrease long-term symptoms."

 http://www.kentucky.com/2012/07/02/2245603/scar-tissue-swelling-problems.html

 it's the first time I hear scar pain described that way. 

Ginger- It sounds like there is hope that your pain could be resolved with more PT.  That's wonderful!  I think loosening up the pec muscles more would help a lot of us on here.  I really wish they would just automatically prescribe PT after MX.  I bet it would prevent a lot of issues from happening in the first place.

I have the tight pecs but also have a lot of scar tissue in the same area you mentioned.

I know this has been posted before but wanted to pass it on again for any new posters.  There's a good site for info on post-mx exercises.  Go to stayingabreast.com.  There's also a book by the same name but it looks like it's out of print right now.  The website gives you some general information, though. 

Kate33 silicone implants are safe.  Are we going to go back to a time when women with implants blamed any ache or pain on their implants.  It turned out that most of these complaints were psychological/all in their minds.  This created panic, and suddenly the only solution was to remove their implants.  Don't we all have enough to deal with in the reconstruction process?  To have to worry about implants attacking our bodies just adds salt to a wound that needs to heal.

Lisa- The women who post on this thread are experiencing very real pain- not psychological.  We come together here to share any resource we can find to identify the cause for this pain and find solutions.  I personally am not stating that implants are unsafe (though I have my concerns) but to just share another resource.  As one who has suffered for years from fibro, though, I can unequivocably state that the fibro pain has definitely increased since having my implants placed.  Also, a research study at the University of California stated that 53% of women who had recon with implants had pain afterward vs. 30% of women with no recon.  Also, 38% of augmentation patients reported pain, too.  The cause of that pain has not been determined but to discount it saying it's all in our minds is insensitive at best if not downright insulting.

I personally have done quite a bit of research regarding implants and don't feel there has been adequate studies regarding long term complications.  And I am not alone-

http://www.center4research.org/2011/06/2011-fda-update-on-silicone-gel-breast-implant-safety-many-unanswered-questions/ 

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/MedicalDevices/ProductsandMedicalProcedures/ImplantsandProsthetics/BreastImplants/UCM260090.pdf 

Well I started researching to see if lat flaps could ever be reversed and yes it all makes sense the answer is no. It isn't the blood suppy it is the nerves and trying to reattach the muscle but also found a lot of evidence which also makes sense since they are bringing this huge muscle under the arm where so many lymph nodes are it is a set up for LE. Did anyone ever mention either of these things to me. It all happened so quickly within a month of diagnosis and I had to deal with my kids and pets and everything.... and being so scared and overwhelmed I didn't do thourough (sp?) research. Now I just feel so totally stuck. I'm wondering did I sign something agreeing to all this and the bulges under my arms and losing all feeling on my back and not only the big long scars but then the 4 other mystery dents/scars..... How can one move on? How can this be a healing reconstruction when you are in more pain. Yes of course pain can come from implants - it is a foreign mass put into your body! I think a lot of people are lucky and don't have pain but it doesn't mean that those who do are imagining it. They are very uncomfortable and mine totally feel two different sizes - I'm now thinking it might be the size of the muscle varying but whatever it is they are not the same and it is very bothersome.... Sometimes I think this whole thing should have been delayed so I could have thought through it more carefully!

Hi gals, I took a few days off to get my "mind" together with my ailments of the breast situation.

Went to a PM doctor 3 weeks ago, he injected steroids to break up scar tissue on mast side. Then he gave me a cream which I have been applying to the affected side.

Yesterday I had new appt with him, I am now having problems extended my right arm (mast side). I pointed to where it "hurt". He said it is a muscle. He did not want to inject me, however, he prescribed a medication called Savala, basically, I have fibromalgia, nerve damage, scar tissue and this is an antidepressant for people with fibromalgia issues and nerve damage problems  There is a whole program on using this medication. (On the up side it calls for weight loss).

MY PS finally gave me a script for a Catscan with contrast of the chest/breast area which I took this morning.

Stanzie, Katie, I have no idea what we signed up for. I certainly did not sign up for all the "extras" we were given along with the mastectomy and implants.  The doctors all seem to think it is nerve damage, and no breast issues. I think it is a shame that the medical world does not inform the patients of what's next. And yet, when I signed the document given to me by my PS it explained how I might not be satisifed with end results. What about the extras???

When I was in the pool over the weekend I entered the deep water and almost saw stars because foob hurt and continued to do so when I came out. PM doctor said I probably pulled a muscle.

I do know that if anything is wrong with boob, I cannot go to New Orleans, I will have to stay here due to personal reasons.

I also have a bra to suit my pain for the day, many many bras. At night I will not sleep with a bra.

Hopefully I will get results of catscan back and I am praying that it shows something to help get to the answer of what is wrong with me. I can say it now, I wish I had a lumpectomy.  I also have other issues with respect to Femara, also crazy, having dental issues that are completely insane, like having the dentist inject novicane and I still felt the air after he tested the tooth.  Many of my teeth are so sensitive I cannot eat anything cold.  So there are many other doctors and dentist now in my life.

Ladies on this post, I sympathize with all of you and I of course share your pain. Can't wait for the catscan results.

Ronna- I hope the Savella works for you.  That one was suggested by my rhuematologist but found out it wasn't generic so over $100 a month for me.  I guess it would be worth it if it works.  Good luck!  Not sure what to say about the cat scan.  On one hand you don't want anything showing up.  On the other you do as long as it's something fixable.  I always feel like either way I'm going to be disappointed in test results.  I know what you mean about the lumpectomy though my DCIS ended up being multi-focal so option would have been taken off the table for me eventually.  The hardest part for me is not knowing if I'd just left the DCIS alone if anything would have come of it.  Feel like now I need a cure from my cure.  

It's been a while since I've piped in here.  I basically did almost no research, reading etc. in 2010 while I was doing BC surgery, chemo, radiation, and yes, reconstruction.  (Stupid, I know!)  It wasn't until I had dealt with chronic spasming of my reconstructed breast (lat flap w/ implant), aching, sharp pains, burning, shoulder issues, and full body aches, that I went to the forums out of desperation.  Now I am so mad at myself that I didn't do it sooner so I could have made more informed choices.  But, I had never been one to have any issues after medical procedures in the past.  I always ended up throwing away my pain meds because pain was never bad enough to bother with the fuzzy head.  I guess I thought that trend would continue, and I was wrong.  My misery has been very real.

I told my Medical Oncologist (who I adore) over a year ago that I felt like cancer treatments gave me Fibromyalgia.  I was almost surprised when he just patted me on the arm and said (very kindly & sincerely)  "it might have".  Now I wonder if the moving of muscles plus implant isn't a big source of the troubles.  I have been looking at getting the nerve cut, implant removed, pec muscle put back into place, & possible fat grafting.  I think Stanzie is right, I'm stuck with the Lat Flap.  Thanks to hplee on another forum, I learned about some doctors using botox injections in the spasming muscle to calm it down.  My PS agreed that it could help.  So, even tho I don't think he's ever tried it before,  I kept insisting that I was willing to be his guinea pig.  So just last Tuesday I got about 7 injections of Botox in my reconstructed breast (Botox for the Boob!)  He said it will take at least 5 days for it to take effect, and if it provides relief, it would last 3-6 months.  Today is day 4, so I am still waiting on pins & needles to see if this will help.  Tho it would be just temporary, I still at least have some hope for relief.  That would also buy me some time to look at options.  (Not a good idea for desperate people to be making any decisions)  My PS said if the Botox stops the spasming, then that's a good indication that cutting the nerve would stop it permanently.  He doesn't think removing the implant would be necessary, but I'm still leaning that way.  I just think I want this thing out! 

Yes! I had very large breasts before bilat mastectomy and was hesitant to go more than 1 size smaller with my reconstruction out of fear that "I wouldn't look like me." My implants are too heavy and I still have pain. But, unlike you, I am not at all happy with the shape, placement, etc. Worse yet, I didn't have nipples constructed because of all the pain I was experiencing at the time. I felt I couldn't face one more surgery. It was a big mistake.

I am now considering having the implants redone and nipples built, but there is risk, at least with the nipples, because I had radiation 4 years ago. Most PSs won't do it. I have been very risk averse, but at 65 have exited a bad marriage, which no doubt affected my decision re surgeries at the time, and would really like to "start over," not for any prospective partner, but just for myself -- as part of celebrating coming out of a longtime marriage-induced depression. Cost is a major issue, however, since most of the top PSs in my area (LA/Beverly Hills) do NOT accept Medicare     I don't want to go to "just anyone" because there is a high risk of infection w/nipples this long after radiation.

For your situation, I would talk to a PS about whether s/he thinks trading for smaller implants would reduce pain. Also very helpful -- I saw a private Pilates and strength building instructor for a few months after my surgery and learned that a lot of pain can be caused by muscle weakness. The exercises she gave me were almost miraculously helpful.

CAN SOMEONE PLS TELL ME WHAT A GUMMY IS, AND BCO? I just joined this site 5 minutes ago and am still learning how to use it. Tks!

It's been almost 7 weeks since I've been on the boards. A lot has happened and wanted to jump back in. DH and I made our two week trip to Hawaii-- the condo offered for free from a dear friend. It was the dangling carrot for me last year after revision surgery.



My last post in May I told you I found a PT who worked with breast recon patients and frozen shoulder. She would also help with the adhesions on my rib cage using mayofascial release. While in Hawaii we did a night dive with the manta rays and after holding on to a raft in 3' ocean swells for 11/2 hours it broke all of the adhesions! I didn't even know until days afterwards when I noticed I could stand up straight!



My PT diagnosed me with truncal lymphadema. After BMX the cancer side was much more swollen and by evening the implants/foobs were so sore. I have many bras too depending on my pain level. Well, I've been going to a lymph therapist in addition to PT. She has shown me how to massage my side so the drainage is to groin area. I am also now using a lymph/PT tape every day that runs from my breast to my groin.



All I can say is the daily pain has been reduced to 1-2 days a week. The shoulder is moving and now we are working to strength muscles. I had never heard of truncal lymphadema, but the swelling has really gone down and stayed down. In May my PS said "I don't know why one side is so swollen six months after exchange surgery. You just seem to have more issues. " Well, thank God this PT knew exactly how to help me, since my PS didn't.



If any of you are still swollen in your chest, sides, foobs, etc., check out if it is truncal lymphadema. I understand it won't just go away--ever, but it can be managed and help keep me paid free.

Lindsay~

I have chest wall/truncal LE, too.   It doesn't seem to be as recognized as arm lymphedema.  There is no way to really measure it like they do with the arms.  Also, I think, as a patient, I thought it was swelling from breast recon, when later it was deemed to be LE.

Like Kate, I would like to know more about the tape.  My PT moves it down to my groin -- that it just the little bit that she can.  I lost implant to extrusion of damaged radiated breast, and now I have craters and roadblocks of scar tissue everywhere making it difficult to move fluid. 

Consulting now for more reconstruction - have to have natural recon because no other way to repair breast.  Hope PS can repair chest wall damage and all the major adhesions.  PT can't do myofacial release because skin is paper thin.

Glad you so had a great trip to Hawaii!

I think Lindsey must be referring to kinesiotape. I was taped in the trunk a few times when I had my implant pain. I have truncal LE, and when I had implants it was hard to find comfortable compression tanks with arm openings that didn't bother the swelling around my armpit and back AND that didn't squish and hurt my implants. So, the therapist used the tape a few times and I had such relief. They definitely have to know what they are doing when they apply it, as it should follow the pathway of lymph flow. However, one has to flex and turn when the tape is applied - there is a stretch to it. Once it is applied and you resume your normal position, it has the effect of lightly lifting the skin, and since the lymphatics are just underneath, it gives the fluid more space to move.
The tape was originally used for sports injuries (and still is), but lucky for us, someone discovered it works for LE, too. There are several kinds, I guess strength of tension, and certain ones are used for LE. Some folks are allergic or have issues with the adhesive. It can be strong, since you can bathe with tape on and it will stay in place. A couple of times I got welts/irritated skin when I removed - you have to take it off carefully! I was actually taped this past Friday, and my therapist told me to only leave on 48 hrs. I just removed this morning. Since I now also have LE in my arm and hand, I had those areas taped in addition to my trunk. I did have my husband take pics so I could send to someone, so I might be able to post a pic if I have access to our laptop tonight. Can't post pics from my iPad. I have wanted to learn how to tape myself, but I am focused on wrapping for the time being.




We have had discussions about kinesiotape over in the Lymphedema forum, so if you head over there and do a search you will find more info. There are a couple of gals who have learned how to tape themselves - Suzybelle comes to mind first. Apparently she has it in a bunch of colors, which must look pretty wild! I've only had the flesh colored.

Hi Kate--I've missed you and am so glad for all of the information you post here.  Thank you and (((((o))))  

PinkHeart you are right, neither my BS or PS ever said that I might have truncal lymphadema.  It was the PT who diagnosed it.  Here is a link describing the symptoms for truncal lymphadema: http://www.lymphnotes.com/article.php/id/461/

Okay, I have the box of tape in front of me.  It is called Kinesio Tex Gold. It is 2" wide and beige.  I am surprised it is not pink, but the PT said it is used for sports injuries too.  She showed me a picture of a teenager hit in a football game who developed a huge hematoma on his upper thigh.  She put the tape on to help pull down the blood and then took a picture two days later after taking the tape off.  There were all these white areas where the tape had been, while the rest of the area was still purple.  So it works!  

Tina, your description is perfect.  My husband has taped me and we are in the "learning curve" to get it right. I ususally lay on my left side, while he tapes the right breast and side.  The tape runs from my breast all the way down my side and then curves forward of the hip bone.  Our first attemps at taping, DH didn't stretch it quite enough when he put it on.  The way mine looks is:  picture someone standing behind me and cupping my right breast with their right hand spreading out their fingers.  The tape is one long piece but both ends have about 5 two inch cuts (looking like fingers on both ends). When we peel back the tape, each "finger of tape" is placed about 1/2" apart around my breast and then the long piece goes down my side, sweeps just above my hip bone with the "fingers of tape" pointing down or toward my crotch.   

Tina, the very first time I was taped, I had itching and welts just above my hip bone.  The therapist was thrilled, because she said that often occures when lymph fluid is draining.  I haven't had the welt since, but I am taped most of the time.  You are right it IS sticky stuff and does hurt a little to pull off my foob.  I usually do it after showering when it seems to loosen the adhesive a little.

My therapist has also taught me how to do a self massage for 5-10 minutes every day to keep the fluid moving. She has determined that it is best for me to drain to my groin instead of the neck. Here is an excellent video of how to do it on Youtube:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=8SnayHG-AaQ&NR=1

Even if you don't have a LE therapist, you can learn to do the massage yourself.  I am intrigued that someone can tape themselves.  I need to go check that out with Suzybelle. Thanks Tina.

So here is the kicker for me.  I did NOT have any lymph nodes removed during my BMX, but the BS did have to make a cut in my right armpit, since I was having a nipple/skin sparing mastectomy.  

BOTH my PT and LE therapists who use to run the lympadema center at UCLA have said removing the implants will NOT change our lymphadena issues.  The damage is done.  I just want to add this for you who are thinking if you remove your implants it will solve your issues.  My two very experienced gals say it won't that we need to learn to manage it with massage and taping--and stay away from heat, hot tubs, etc. They only increase our swelling.

I am so thankful we can share with each other what is working, so we all have more info and hopefully get some relief. 

Hi Katie33 and all other Ladies on this block

I am so thankful for all your information

i dont wright too much becouse  my english is so bad i am sorry for that

my Excgange and reduction was in June  i am getting all red around the stiches on both side's and i am not happy about the reduction it is still bigger then my implant and lower down i looked better when i had my prostesis on first i thought it was the swelling but it should be gone by now dont no what to do

 But i wish all  the Ladies here good luck