Ditch asparagus and alfalfa...really?

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PLJ
PLJ Member Posts: 373
edited June 2014 in Complementary and Holistic Medicine and Treatment

Ok, so I'm switching some of my supplements and came across information suggesting women with ER+ breast cancer should avoid asparagus and alfalfa. Has anyone had their MO tell them this? Flax is supposed to be questionable, too although I do eat it. I'm not sure how much of this I buy into. After all, if we were to avoid all phytoestrogens, what exactly would there be left to eat??? Anybody use 'Perfect Food' RAW supplement by Garden of Life? TIA.

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  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited June 2012

    I consume phytoestrogens - all my integrative docs recommend them and believe that they are good for hormone positive women.  They don't believe that the phytoestrogens are feeding the cancer cells at all, rather that they are working similiarly to Tamoxifen - filling the receptors so our bodies estrogen can't get in there.  If you think of the receptor as a lock and the estrogen as the key, then the phytoestrogens are a key, but not a powerful enough key to turn the lock.  Whereas our own estrogen and xenoestrogens can definitely turn the lock.

    This is pretty controversial though - some people feel VERY strongly about avoiding all phytoestrogens.

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  • PLJ
    PLJ Member Posts: 373
    edited June 2012

    Hey sweetbean,

     Thank you for your thoughts. My Naturopathic Oncologist feels the same way about phytoestrogens and explained it in the exact manner you did...lock and key. I do wonder if all the soy milk that I was consuming the year of my misdiagnosis slowed down tumour growth. I am switching my greens to the Perfect Food Raw, along with one of their Raw multi vitamins and wondered what other's MOs have said about these particular food items. When you think about it, phytoestrogens are in so many things that we'd have to cut out an awful lot of the good stuff to avoid them. I like my fruit and veggies too much to do that.

     Thanks again for your reply. Have a great week!

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2012

    I found a link to phytoestrogen explanation that helped me so much.  I was wondering why the old time healer wanted me to eat black beans cooked with seaweed twice a day, saying this was the best she knew that would soak up the excess estrogens.  Now I get it, and also from sweetbeans comment above. 

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  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited June 2012

    Yes, I just can't cut out fruits and veggies - that seems totally counterintuitive.  The reason that phytoestrogens can't "turn the lock" so to speak is that even the foods with the highest estrogen content only have a tiny fraction compared to our body's estrogen.  Plus, fruits and veggies contain fiber, which bind to our body's estrogen and help eliminate it or process it down non-carcinogenic pathways.

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  • PLJ
    PLJ Member Posts: 373
    edited June 2012

    What have you heard about supplements that obviously don't contain the fiber? The products that I cited above include great ingredients, along with alfalfa, flax and asparagus juice. This is where my questions lie, not really with whole foods.

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  • Carola32
    Carola32 Member Posts: 206
    edited June 2012

    I too consume these supposedly 'dangerous' phytoestrogens, found in plants, fruits & veggies. Today, after doing my research and turning my diet around 360°, I think, personally, it is silly and preposterous that ER+ women should avoid them. As Sweetbean pointed out, they help us rather than do us harm. I agree though that processed soy one can find in industrial foods and supplements do us harm; I don't touch 'man-made' food anymore. It's like oncs and docs have blinders on, thinking that everything with estrogen in it should be avoided; No, no, no I say, and so did the ayurvedic doctors in India I consulted last February. (I'm only giving MY point of view and what helped ME, nothing else, not trying to influence anyone).

    In India, I was given asparagus every day so as to regulate my hormones and get strength back from chemo, rads and what not. I am very careful about what I put in my mouth nowadays, so of course I did my research about asparagus and I liked what I found. One site says this for example http://ayurvedicindia.info/312/10-health-benefits-of-asparagus. Just to mention one.

    I had been without periods for almost a year and started to get inconsolable. Today, they are back on track (came back in India actually!), and I have almost no PMS worth mentioning: I feel great, feeling that my hormones are pretty much in a balanced state. Prior to diagnosis my periods were awful; bloating, terrible moodswings, pain, pimples, very heavy bleeding...(apparently signs of excess estrogen, just google it) Today my periods last for five days, like when I was a teenager, and are (almost) a delight. 

    I think it is the xeno estrogens, found in pesticides, make up, plastic, pills, the modern society overall etc, which are really the problem, not natural foods! The lack of exercise, overconsumption of alcohol and medication, exposure to heavy metals, diesel (a REAL issue in France), food irradiation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_irradiation is what 'help', among other things (genes etc) make us sick. But as money rules the world and one can make & sell more by putting dangerous chemicals inside things we consume (be it on skin, in food, the air we breathe..), well, it is our 'duty' to watch out.

    I would certainly be wary of anyone (even superoncs) telling me to cut out certain fruits, plants or veggies and solely rely on Tamoxifen. I wouldn't consume this Thai herb girls overthere use for breast enhancement though (a latin name, I'm so sorry I don't remember), some girls talked about on the forum some time ago, but only because if I have any doubt I won't go there. Good elimination, avoiding constipation and having a healthy lifestyle being careful about carcinogens I mentioned above is my motto today. It has been a real eye-opener to research how todays food industry works, yuck! 

    Everything in moderation, even wine :-D (organic of course)

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  • sweetbean
    sweetbean Member Posts: 1,931
    edited June 2012

    Oh, interesting - I use Amazing Grass ORAC blend in my smoothie - pretty sure that there are phytoestrogens in there.  I think it is fine.  I stay away from stuff like "soy protein isolate" and xenoestrogens.  I agree with Carola that those are to be avoided and probably wreak havoc with our systems.

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