Navigating Breast Cancer Treatment: MD as patient - Post 1
Since I was first diagnosed with invasive ductal carcinoma by an ultrasound biopsy last October, the lion's share of information and care that I have received from physicians and providers have been fragmented, inaccurate, confusing, and/or contradictory, with further obstacles and problems created by inappropriate delays and denials of care by my HMO (Brown and Toland) and my insurance carrier (Anthem Blue Cross).
As a holistic physician myself, one who integrates both conventional and complementary approaches and serves as an advocate for my patients, I was looking for the same as much as possible in my treatment team for my breast cancer. One would think that living in San Francisco, a progressive area and the home of so many major medical centers that claim to provide integrated (conventional and complementary), coordinated, comprehensive treatment for breast and other types of cancer, this would be possible. Yet, this has not been my experience and this should not be a surprise to other holistic health providers and patients who have found Bay Area cancer treatment medical providers and institutions unable and/or unwilling to provide the level, scope and quality of care that they claim to offer.
My problems started at CPMC, after I had a suspicious annual screening mammogram last September. I was subsequently referred to have an US screening, where a very rude radiologist whom I asked to speak with directly (a technician did the US itself) responded to my question about what the results showed with a scribble on a piece of paper: "ductal invasive ductal insitu lobular invasive" before she abruptly walked out of the room. I added on my own "or lobular insitu". I was subsequently scheduled for an US biopsy a few days later and was told by the physician who did the US guided biopsy that the tumor could not be more than 13 mm at its widest margin.
I was subsequently strongly encouraged by the surgeon whom I then saw (the surgeon whom I wanted to see at CPMC had just retired) to have a lumpectomy with Intraoperative Radiation (IORT), based on the pathology results of the biopsy and the assumption that I was Stage I. I was told by the surgeon that with the radiation oncologist she was recommending she they had trained in Germany with the originators of this procedure, that they had just gotten the machine and had done IORT 8-9 times there. She stressed the urgency of the surgery and made the IORT sound like the greatest thing since the smart phone, asserting that the results of studies on outcomes showed it comparable to Whole Breast Radiation (WBRT).
She told me that the scar would be 3 cms and that the only side effects would be my breast being " a little perkier and somewhat smaller." She said specifically, "there won't be a big dent and it may lift the breast a bit. Usually, we wait a year to see, then we can do a breast reduction on the other breast." The radiation oncologist whom she referred me to (the one who had trained with her in Germany) said that I had less than a 5% risk of a hematoma or a seroma (unclear if he meant post-operatively or intra-operatively); a slightly increased procedure and recovery time with increased soreness; increased redness around the scar, which would be temporary; and possible slight increased thickening of the scar. I think I asked the surgeon, what if the tumor is larger or my lymph nodes are positive, and she breezed over my question with something like, well you can always have WBRT. She said I should have my surgery first and find an oncologist after the surgery stating, "I'll give you a list."
The surgeon said that since she was only going to biopsy 2-3 nodes, the main complication of lymphadema would be very small, but she didn't discuss other side effects such as cording, which has been a problem for me on and off since the surgery, and which I only got a name for from another breast surgeon last week. The radiation oncologist reinterated that the IORT and WBRT had the same local recurrence rate. Neither informed me of all of the other potential side effects of the IORT - severe hardness in my breast tissue far beneath and beyond my lumpectomy scar, a permanently retracted nipple, cording (damage to the nerves and muscles causing pain from my arm pit down to my fingers), pain under both the lumpectomy and lymph biopsy scar due to extensive scar tissue within the breast and underarm tissue, or severe denting in the skin around my lumpectomy incision, and severe dimpling of my entire lower breast.
They didn't inform me about the poor accuracy of the tumor sizing by US (verus a high discrimination Breast MRI), which turned out to be way off. My tumor turned out to be 2.4 cm and they found isolated tumor cells in the two lymph nodes my surgeon biopsied. It took me months to find out that the data comparing local recurrence rates (versus survival) for IORT compared with WBRT is only available for 5 years out, and that the data from the TARGIT trials and other studies looking at IORT against WBRT did not really apply to me, as the study subjects either had different pathology, were at a different stage or had a different type of cancer.
And there were complications during my surgery - a hematoma that required my surgeon go in after the lumpectomy to stop the bleeding. It is unclear whether this is the risk I was warned about by the radiation oncologist or caused by the fact I didn't stop taking the non-steroidal inflammatory medication I was taking for this pain prior to the surgery. I had been unsuccessful in finding effective alternatives to control the pain prior to surgery (i.e.Tylenol, acupuncture) and told my surgeon about this. She told me verbally that it wouldn't be a problem if I kept taking it, which I did, despite being instructed by the pre-op nurse and written instructions to stop it 3-5 days prior to surgery. I told a pre-op nurse on the phone that I would stop them prior to my surgery, because I did want to say that my surgeon had instructed me otherwise. I don't recall anyone asking me about this right before my surgery.
I also received misinformation about what were permanent versus temporary results of the surgery and radiation. My surgeon has continued to tell me months after the procedure, as I have complained about denting and hardness that I need to wait a year or two for it to heal versus considering reconstruction as soon and possible or at least before considering further radiation (WBRT).
After they found isolated tumor cells in one of the nodes biopsied, despite repeated comments by them that isolated tumor cells were considered the equivalent of being node negative relative to treatment based on recurrence/survival rates, both the CPMC tumor board and the radiation oncologist who did the IORT recommended WBRT following chemotherapy based on there being isolated tumor cells in one node biopsied.
I completed four cylcles of Cytoxan/Taxotere/Hydration with Neulasta on 3/1 - 3/2/12). My six month screening at CPMC by Breast MRI showed a 7 mm mass in the breast opposite the one with cancer. I am currently in the process of obtaining a comprehensive second opinion regarding getting further radiation (WBRT), and authorization for another Breast MRI and MRI- guided core Breast Biopsy at the medical center where I obtaining a second opinion. This has already been delayed by over two weeks by my surgeon and the interventional radiologist at CPMC who read my Breast MRI, by attempting to have me start from scratch with a second-look ultrasound and subsquent breast biopsy by ultrasound. This is because an ultra-sound biopsy is easier and cheaper for them, and also because as it seems, their Breast MRI technology, does not have very good discrimination capacity. If it did, the findings on my screening Breast MRI would have been much more specific and definitive regarding features of the mass being malignant versus benign. They were unfortunately very vague and did not meet the standard guidelines for interpretation outlined by the American College of Radiology.
Next Postings: Finding a medical oncologist; Evaluating advice from tumor boards; Understanding and interpreting pathology and prognostic test results; Seeking advice and referrals from patient navigators, patient advocates and medical consultants; Access/Availability/Cost holistic and complementary cancer treatment and care; Finding the time and capacity to care for oneself and advocate for proper care and supports at the same time.
Comments
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Thank you for sharing your perspective. I've learned much more from these forums than I have from any of the doctors I've seen. There is so much to learn and we really have to do most of it ourselves. I will be watching for your next post.
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That is fascinating about IORT. All I had read about it was press releases. At the time there was not a machine in NYC, so it wasn't a choice, but I always wondered if I should have done it, since my breast swelled during WBR and never really stopped.
I think your perspective is very valuable.
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I had a breast surgeon who reportedly has been performing lumpectomies for 30 years.
My diagnosis is Stage IIb, specifically T2 (over 2 cm) NO (i+) (isolated tumor cells found in 1 of 2 biopsied nodes) MO (no metastases) invasive ductal carcinoma, ER+, PR-, HER-2/neu - with a proliferation index of intermediate rate by Mib-1/Ki67 = 25 % and a grade of 2/3 = intermediate differentiation.
My OncotypeDx score was 31 - high intermediate, and an estimated average rate of 20% for distant recurrence at 10 years, which led to the recommendation that I have chemotherapy (I finished four cycles of Cytoxan and Taxotere in early March).
My OncotypeDx score was based on my being node negative. Had I been HER-2/neu positive (I had a FISH test done to confirm that I was HER-2 negative, as the I was informed that the previous tests that were done on my tumor had a high rate (up to 10 %) of false negatives for the HER-2 receptor), they would have recommended that I add Herceptin to my chemo regimen.
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chelseasanfran,
You've certainly had your share of surprises as you've gone through the process but I have to say that much of what you've experienced isn't particularly unusual or shocking. Diagnostics are imprecise. Every treatment, including surgery and radiation and chemo, comes with risks and side effects. Everyone's experience is different and there is no way that a surgeon can predict in advance what your experience will be. Even something that has the smallest possibility ("there's only a 1% chance that this might happen") is going to happen to someone - and it could be you.
Here are a few things I've learned, both through my own experiences with numerous biopsies and surgeries over many years and from reading about the experiences of others on this board for the past 6+ years.
- Radiologists don't have any obligation to speak to patients and in fact at some facilities, they are not allowed to speak to patients. This doesn't mean that some radiologists aren't extremely helpful, but it's hit and miss.
- Mammograms, ultrasounds and MRIs are imprecise and each may tell a different story - the most complete story is obtained by having all 3 tests and comparing the results. But even with that, you cannot be diagnosed based on what shows on the films and you cannot rely on the films for accuracy with regard to diagnosis or size of the tumor. A mammogram, ultrasound or MRI may show something that appears "suspicious" but there is no way to know with certainty whether the suspicious area is malignant or benign. It would be nice if our doctors explained this to us, but it's probably so commonplace to them that they don't even think about it. The only reliable diagnostic tool is surgery.
- Any treatment discussions that you have with your doctors prior to surgery are preliminary and are subject to change once the final pathology of the cancer is known. Personally I think that doctors should refrain from saying anything prior to surgery because so often there is a change.
- Doctors tend to recommend the procedures with which they are most familiar. That's unfortunate but it's human nature. That's why it's always a good idea to get a second opinion to verify a recommendation and/or to learn about other options.
- Doctors tend to focus on the job at hand. Surgeons focus on surgery. Radiologists focus on radiation treatments. They know about the common and obvious post-treatment side effects but they tend to be clueless about some of the less common side effects (of which there are zillions). Is that right? No. But is it understandable? Yes, it kind of is. I want my surgeon to focus on the surgery. I was fortunate that I was treated at a hospital that had a pre-surgery education session for patients. The nurse who ran that program provided lots of information about what to expect after surgery, side effects, what to do if.... etc. And she was available after surgery for any questions. So the onus wasn't on my surgeon to tell me about anything and everything that might happen. That approach makes sense to me because I don't think it's reasonable to expect a surgeon (or radiologist, etc.) to spend their time going through a list of 412 possible side effects (slight exaggeration to make the point).
- Breast cancer treatment recommendations are made based estimates of risk. Risk is determined by assessing a number of different factors including tumor grade, tumor hormone status, tumor size, and nodal status. Usually it's not one single factor that determines the need for a treatment (radiation or chemo, for example) but a combination of factors.
- Some patients don't ask many questions and are happy doing whatever their doctors suggest. Other patients want to know everything about their diagnosis and treatment and ask tons of questions. Some doctors prefer the first type of patient - they come in armed with a treatment plan and they tell the patient what to do. Other doctors are better at dealing with the second type of patient - they are happy to answer questions, they present the patient with options but they want the patient to make the decisions. It's best to find a doctor who suits your style.
- Most doctors genuinely want to do the best for each patient but doctors have many patients and by necessity each patient holds only a small percentage of their attention and time. For each of us, we are the only patient that we have. So as with most things in life, we will do best if we advocate for ourselves.
I'm really sorry that you've had such a difficult and frustrating experience. I wish that you'd had doctors who were more attuned to your needs and more responsive to your questions. I wish that you'd known more about the risks and side effects before you had your treatments. I wish that you didn't have to tackle all that is ahead of you. I really do understand your frustrations. But I also appreciate that there is a lot about breast cancer diagnosis and treatment that is uncertain and impossible to predict. And I appreciate that there are limits to what our doctors can do and what we can expect from them. Certainly there are some doctors who brush off questions and who are terrible at communicating. There are some doctors who downplay side effects in an effort to get the patient on board with the treatment - maybe that describes your doctors. But even the best and most patient-focused doctors can't be expected to tell us everything. Compared to much of what I read on this board, I know that I had excellent doctors, doctors who really tried hard to tell me in advance what all the risks and side effects of my treatments were. But I too have a long list of things that I learned after the fact, from my own experiences or from other women on this board. That doesn't surprise me or disappoint me or make me think any less of my doctors.
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Dear Beesie,
Thank you for your posting. I am very pleased to know that you have survived 5 years plus out from diagnosis and that you feel your care has been excellent. However, as both a physician and a patient myself, I have to respectfully disagree with many of your general and global comments about doctors (especially surgeons and academic decision leaders in the field). I feel that your response is very defensive given that I have shared only my personal experiences with doctors and care providers in getting help for my breast cancer. I would add that my personal experience is consistent with my professional experience as a holistic physician in both private, clinic and hospital practice over many years.
As physicians, our training, the law and the Hippocratic oath obligate us to engage in a meaningful process of informed consent with each and every patient who consents to a specific treatment or intervention that we have discussed or recommended. This involves a comprehensive and meaningful review of the risks and benefits of each treatment in language that the patient can understand.
Sometimes informed consent forms may require that the patient agree to understanding only the most severe and most common complications/risks of a procedure or treatment. Sometimes, the patient merely signs a form saying that the doctor has reviewed all of the risks involved and that the patient acknowledges their understanding in consenting to the procedure.
The fact that a patient may be hesitant to have a procedure done due to the knowledge they have a 1% risk of a severe complication weighed against the expected benefits does not justify ignoring the informed consent process. Too many patients sign informed consent forms without reading or understanding what is going to be done to them and what they may likely or less likely expect.
During my medical training, an Arabic speaking Middle Eastern woman whom I was assigned to care for was hospitalized for late stage colon cancer. The doctors thought her life could have been saved, but it would have required removal of much of her colon and a colostomy. Her oldest son, who was head of the household, refused to allow a translator to communicate this information directly to his mother, stating that the shame of a colostomy in their culture would be worse than death and he would not agree to the surgery or a colostomy. As a medical student, I objected to not insisting that the translator be able to communicate to the patient what the doctors were saying. I appealed to my attending that the case be brought before the hospital ethics committee before the patient was discharged, but my concerns were ignored. The family took the woman out of the hospital and brought her home to die, without any treatment. She was not even discharged with a notation in the medical record of "against medical advice."
I think that if a patient cannot give informed consent due to cognitive or emotional reasons, then the physician is obligated to provide or recommend to the patient an advocate who can/will assist them in the decision making process. The patient advocate whom I was assigned at CPMC was severely cognitively impaired and provided me enormous mis-information following my initial diagnosis. And, like most women at time of initial diagnosis, I was ill-prepared to process all of the complex and contradictory information I was provided. This situation only served to increase my stress, impair my functioning and create more barriers to my effective treatment and recovery.
The fact is that most of the side effects that I have suffered and was not informed of in advance are common ones. And, while patients should indeed expect (and verify) a surgeon to have extensive expertise in the surgery they are performing, they should also expect their surgeon to have an extensive fund of knowledge about the entire procedure that they are recommending, even if the surgeon is not performing all of the procedure(s) themselves.
I think that you are confusing good medical practice, medical competency, and coordinated, individualized care with variations in clinical practice that I consider to be primarily the result of our fragmented health "system" and physicians' lack of capacity (in large part due to non-clinical work overload and economic pressures) to provide truly individualized, coordinated and competent care.
I do believe that most physicians, given the choice and proper incentives, would work in the best interests of patients. This, however, is not the current reality, and there is overwhelming evidence, both anecdotal and published, that only those who can afford to pay privately for concierge level care, are likely to get the level and quality of care that we used to take for granted. A good analogy is the public school system, where music programs and physical education are often no longer even part of the basic curriculum.
I do not think that good medical care should be evaluated on the basis of style. While I so respect your voice and personal experiences as a survivor, I think it is likewise important not to dismiss the experiences of women like myself, who may suffer or have suffered as a result of poor, improper or unnecessary treatments or care by one or more physicians or care providers.
While I am very grateful that national standards and criteria for the diagnosis, staging and treatment of breast cancer, which many providers rely on in lieu of truly individualized care, produce generally good survival outcomes, particularly for those in early stages, had I postponed my annual mammogram another year, as is now being recommended, my cancer would have likely metastasized. Also, despite being at a relatively early stage, I was strongly encouraged to try a relatively new treatment, one which I would not have had, had I been given more information.
In addition to the side effects from the surgery and radiation I have suffered (aside from those from chemotherapy), I was subsequently left in limbo regarding how to proceed in terms of further radiation, as there were (also unbeknownst to me at the time) no good data to help guide my future decisions on this treatment and no information from the tumor board on their rationale in recommending whole breast radiation following intraoperative radiation.
There are real problems in presuming physician "excellence" in the absence of good longitudinal outcomes data and detailed, responsible patient reviews. Excellence is otherwise typically determined by medical providers and the standing of the physician within their specialty based on academic affiliation, research and publications, economic success, and reputation. And, it is also a problem that each medical specialty tends to over advocate for its own type of treatment/intervention regardless of evidence, whereby different specialists within one institutional "team" may advocate/recommend totally different tests or treatments. I would ask you if among three different specialists, all considered excellent, each gave you a different recommendation and rationale for their decision (based on the same data and studies), how would you decide whom to trust?
The last issue, which I have not yet addressed (versus issues with conventional treatments which I have started with), and which is my biggest complaint with the cancer care I have received locally and throughout most of the country is the lack of coordinated integrated care (i.e. conventional and complementary). This is despite the fact that all major cancer centers in the SF Bay area advertise themselves as being truly integrated, when in fact they are not.
The complementary care services provided at these local integrative centers (nutrition and supplements, acupuncture, mindfulness therapies and treatments including progressive muscle relaxation, guided imagery, neurofeedback, etc.) are provided as non-medical programs, with services that are not generally covered by insurance, are for the most part provided as an adjunct to covered services, are not well coordinated with conventional care or providers, and are typically run like high-end spas and concierge practices.
Following my surgery, I was looking for a medical oncologist that embraced both conventional and complementary treatments. I first called the Cancer Treatment Centers of America and when I told them I had an HMO that wouldn't cover their services, they told me I could not even get an evaluation there until I put down a $250,000 deposit.
I subsequently called one of the most highly regarded institutionally affiliated integrative centers in the Bay area to ask one of their "complementary" medical oncologists for a referral. The doctor I spoke with said to me, "why are you calling me, I'm not a referral agency and I don't have any openings for 4 months anyway." He said he worked mostly with medical oncologists from the medical facility whose name his center carried and said he helped people only after and separately from the main conventional treatments they received. I said, "I don't mean to annoy you" and he replied, "Well you are."
I subsequently asked him if there were any truly integrated cancer treatment centers in the US. He said, "Block in Chicago" and hung up the phone on me. He was referring to Keith I. Block, M.D. and the Block Center in Skokie, Ill. I am currently under Dr. Block's care for my diet, nutritional and supplement regimen and other complementary approaches and highly recommend his book, Life Over Cancer - The Block Center Program for Integrative Cancer Treatment.
I will be writing more about my experiences at/with the Block Center in future posts. He and his wife, Penny B. Block, Ph.D. have been major leaders in efforts to promote and provide truly integrative cancer treatment.
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