Garbage in/Garbage out: flying and compression

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  • Galsal
    Galsal Member Posts: 1,886
    edited March 2012
    thanks Binney.  sure hope don't fall asleep with them on again, is all I can say.  Tongue out
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  • Leah_S
    Leah_S Member Posts: 8,458
    edited March 2012

    For those who are thinking about doing MLD on the flight - why not do it in the bathroom? They're small, but you'd have more room than in your seat!

    Leah

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  • Nitocris
    Nitocris Member Posts: 187
    edited March 2012

    Hi,

    More information about flying with LE.  A presentation by Jeannette Zucker from Sloan Kettering "Air travel and its impact on Lymphedema"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uH9I3LCEJKo&feature=channel

    About airplane climates and why it is important to keep hydrated.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3JCw00ZPXM

    More useful information for passengers on the following site: "Arrive in better shape" section.

    http://www.aviation-health.org/

    Safe flight

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2012
    The video of Jeanette Zucker's presentation on air travel is enlightening in so many ways!




    Carol, thank you for the nice compliment on my new avatar. It is part of one of my drawings.
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  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited March 2012

    Nitocris, thank you! I especially liked the one on airplane climates. Guzzle that water! (Made me feel all dried out just watching it!)

    Tina, very cool about using your drawing for your avatar -- now I want to see the whole thing!
    Binney

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited March 2012

    Tina, I actually wondered if it was from your own work. Wow...wish I could zoom up the avatar. Can you post a photo of the piece?



    Carol

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2012

    The part in Jeanette Zucker's presentation about increasing the health/efficiently of the venous system (i.e., cardio exercise) and its ability to have an effect on the lymphatic system and LE maintenance everyday and while flying was not lost on me . . . Sometimes I just need to know WHY in order to get myself to do something. Okay, I ask what, why and how about a lot of stuff. Doctors love me. LOL




    You guys are so kind. The drawing looks better small! I will gladly share with you later, but right now it has been gathered with others for framing. I don't know how to put watermark on pic, and I have been urged to sign them and I'm working on that. Carol, I am still at square one. May I have a shot of your energy, please?

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited March 2012

    Tina, I am right there with you, needing to understand the 'why.'  

    I think the 'heavy-breathing, drooling' person the narrator talks about was next to me on yesterday's flight. I was aisle; he was window, and he wanted to get up so many times that I got plenty of up-and-about exercise as Jeanette Zucker suggests--just letting the fellow in and out of the row.

    Zucker's points about all the reasons that make flying higher LE risk--many  more reasons than just cabin pressure--are points very well taken. I find it very difficult to pack featherlight--what I need for work (computer, printer, some hefty books) that I cannot put into checked luggage means I am stuck lifting what I would prefer not to. And she is right on target when she reminds us that when we carry luggage and other travel items, we're not doing it remotely ergonomically.

    Lots to think about. Understanding the problem is the first step to finding some good work-arounds. Nitocris, thank you for finding these resources.  You have posted a lot of very good internet resources in the LE forum threads: your online sleuthing skills are really, really good! 

    Carol 

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  • Nitocris
    Nitocris Member Posts: 187
    edited March 2012
    Carol57,  Thank you. The more we learn and understand the various components influencing LE, the better we can act to reduce risks or at least minimise the consequences.Smile
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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited March 2012

    It's really unfortunate that getting up and moving around is more than just a disruption to your seat mates. I would love for someone to make me get up and down like that, Carol. With all this airline security stuff, they don't seem to want anyone out of their seat any longer than it takes to use bathroom. And they never let you stand there when it's occupied. Even pre-BC, I felt the need to get up and stretch, as the seats are awful.

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited March 2012

    I fly most of the time in regional jets, where standing in an aisle means being mighty close to the people in aisle seats. There's nowhere to go if you walk, like in a large plane where there might be at least a tiny bit of open space at the front and rear of the cabin.  Doing MLD for 15 minutes in the bathroom might test the patience of waiting passengers, as well as make the flight crew wonder what a person might be doing in there... 

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  • Outfield
    Outfield Member Posts: 1,109
    edited March 2012

    Oh, the heck with it.

    I'm flying around Memorial Day, three long flights.  I'm just going to wear a skimpy undershirt as a bottom layer, strip to it, and do MLD under it whenever I feel like it!  If it offends someone's sensibilities, so be it.  I'll tell 'em it's a medical procedure.  At least with something skimpy I won't be scaring anybody into thinking I've got a weapon under there.

    This country has such a hangup about breasts.  I nursed my kids so many times on flights, never had a problem, but sure know people who have.   

    I am also probably going to wear my Tribute, although I'm not sure.  Maybe a sleeve and glove.  I don't think I can deal with bandaging and keeping track of all the sticky things that the kids produce at the same time.   The stockpile of disposable gloves would be a pain on a plane.  At least the Tribute is easily rinsed

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited March 2012

    Outfield, I LOVE your spunk!  Please report back to let us know how your flight and LE-management work out. I agree about the hang-up.

    One thing that deters me on an in-seat MLD solution is the elbows-out problem. If DH or a friend is in the seat next to me, no problem. If it's a stranger, well..not sure what to do about the inevitable problem of my elbow encroaching on my neighbor's space and probably risking poking him or her in the side. 

    Once I was next to a man who was working on his laptop and did not seem to have the skill of keyboarding with his arms tucked to his sides.  He was consistently poking my boob with his elbow, which annoyed me plenty. I am not a 'large' passenger and  neither was he; it's just that the airlines don't seem to understand that human beings have two elbows and need room to park both of them in an airline seat.  I had to turn to the guy and ask him to refrain from poking me in the side as he typed.  His 'oh sorry' lasted about five minutes and he started elbowing me again.  Finally I said in an elevated voice that I did not appreciate his arm all over my boob.  That got some attention, as you might imagine, and the guy closed his laptop loudly and pouted into his window for the rest of the flight.

    Ah, the joys of flying.  (But flying with kids is such a feat that worrying about what others feel about your MLD is probably the least of your concerns!).

    Do keep us posted--

    Carol

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  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited March 2012
    Tina, I make sure the flight attendants know I have a medical condition that requires certain accomodations as soon as I board. I explain that I must stay very well hydrated so I need plenty of water, and they keep me supplied. I haven't ever thought of telling them that I need to move up and down the aisles frequently, but I could sure add that to my quickie spiel as I board. Maybe worth a try.
    Binney
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  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited March 2012

    Just came from a meeting of LE board, and talked to 2 LE MD"s and both were strong proponents of under-armour for truncal/breast LE and flying.

    Flying beat the hell out of my arm this weekend: I wore my Solaris, drank fluids, but still--2 flghts in 2 days, long meetings, no rest, hotel food, no exercise. 

    My hand was relatively okay, it was my arm that took the beating. 

    Last night, because a very experienced LE PT was checking my arm as we puzzled over why the new Solaris Tribute isn't a good fit, first she said my arm was too small to need a Tribute, and then she felt my arm and got all freaked out over tissue changes and wanted me in a sleeve all day--ths was a 2 minute consult from someone who doesn't know my medical history or LE history--but I put the Solaris on early at the gate--in full view of the other passengers, who could care less, and left it on for an hour when I got off the plane--big difference. I tend to pull it off as I depart and put on a glove, and clearly that's not enough.

    So, I hydrated, I moved, I compressed and I flared.

    Kira

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited March 2012

    Kira, I think you summed up the recipe for flare pretty succinctly: air travel + sedentary during long meeting + poor sleep in hotel + rich, salty food + no muscle pumping to move the lymph. It's a victory if you got even half the water you needed.

    The endorsement of UA for flying with truncal is heartening. I'm flying to Boston this week, two flights each way, and will to try a new combination (for me) -- tight short-sleeved UA with sleeve/gauntlet.  Usually I've been happy with just a long-sleeve UA but this past week's six flights gave me some trouble. So on the last two, I wore normal undergarments plus sleeve/gauntlet, as I did not have a short-sleeved UA with me, and I was afraid to put a long-sleeve UA over my compression sleeve.  My arm fared pretty well on those flights home, but my truncal--not so good.  This week I'll be better prepared.

    What I really hate about the gauntlet is that especially in public places like airports, I wash my  hands constantly.  Am I being too worried about the momentary pulling my thumb out of the gauntlet and peeling it back, while I wash and dry my hands?  I'm still new enough at this, that I don't know if that minute is enough to put a perilous amount of pressure around the wrist, or to allow fluid to get started in the hand.

    I hope your LE board meeting was worthwhile, to compensate for the travel issues. I for one really appreciate that you're on that board, because even if your official role is not as patient advocate, we know advocacy is in your heart.  Thanks for putting yourself through what must have been one very long weekend!

    Carol 

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  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited March 2012

    Carol, I'd push for good hand washing. Airplanes have so many germs.

    I talked to my LE therapist, and she wasn't pleased that my arm held fluid and thought that I should have put on a sleeve, not just left it in the backpack, but having known me for almost 4 years, she is not overly concerned. She'll see me this week.

    Carol, I did get upset at the meeting, as the topic is very important to me, and politics and entrenched positions make them lose sight of the big picture. The individuals are dedicated clinicians and researchers, but the group dynamic is not ideal. I told Binney, I'm busy embroidering a scarlet L for my next time....

    Let us know how the underarmour works for you.

    Kira

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited March 2012

    Kira, today I've been searching for photos to use in a lymphedema self-study I'm writing for nurses. Never thought of an image of a woman wearing a scarlet L.  Hmmm...Could be a real thinking piece!

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  • LtotheK
    LtotheK Member Posts: 2,095
    edited March 2012

    Hey you guys as usual are AWESOME.  Thank you so much for this super-informative post.

    I wanted to chime in with a few personal decisions.  I do not have LE presently, though I had cording during radiation, and six, not three nodes taken (grrrr).  Cording is not necessarily a risk factor, according to my PT, but I hardly think it helps matters.

    I chose to wear compression for long flights.  I do not wear it for short flights under 2 or so hours.  This is the mental bargain I made with myself to take into account all research, which remains sorta all over the place, IMO.  

    I also chose not to wear compression during weight training.  I am careful, and have done well.  My PT is not able to give me a yay or nay, and so, this was just a personal choice based on a hunch as much as anything.

    I'm quite vigilant when I fly:  I move around, eat low sodium meals, drink enough water to drown the plane out.  Will this help?  Who knows.  I think it's as good for my back as my arm to use my rolling suitcase and briefcase.  No more backpacks, no more lifting heavy luggage, and I ask for help and gate check.  I'm working up the nerve to ask to board early, and get steward help to put bags overhead.  But, overall I just fly with a whole lot less than I used to.

    I did just want to say that heaviness and tingling can absolutely be precursors to LE, and I take them VERY seriously.  I have had it happen to me, and my PT indicated this can also be nerve damage from the SNB.  It's a deep cut, and nerves are busy regenerating during heavy-duty treatment, which can leave them weak.

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  • LtotheK
    LtotheK Member Posts: 2,095
    edited March 2012

    Galsal! Agreed:  that glove with the fingertips showing is the PITS.  Hate it, horrible, ordered a gauntlet to replace my old one immediately after trying the glove out!

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited March 2012

    LtotheK, I believe the PAL Protocol for weight lifting says the compression is needed if you already have an LE diagnosis, and is optional if you don't.  You certainly are being proactive, and with 6 nodes out plus rads, your risk is not trivial, so good for you to be so on top of it. 

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  • kcshreve
    kcshreve Member Posts: 1,148
    edited March 2012

    I wore compression during my last flight- glad I did - and I still had struggles afterward.  I brought water bottles with me.  They told quite the story of in-flight pressure - plane goes up, and water bottle expands tremendously.  Open lid, drink water, put on lid.  Plane descends and what happens to water bottle?  It crumples into a tinier form of itself as the plane comes down, due to increased air pressure.  The cabin may be pressurized, but not enough to keep a water bottle's levels stable.  Even moreso my challenged lymphatic system.  Glad to wear compression.

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  • pebee
    pebee Member Posts: 317
    edited August 2012

    I have a confession to make.....

    I had a 2.5 hour flight with my son.  I had the compression sleeve in my bag - my thought was that I would duck into the bathroom before take off and put it on.  I didn't want to put it on before security as the last time they made me take it off.

    I completely forgot.  Totally, utterly, forgot until I checked in to my hotel room and was unpacking my bag.

    I have a confirmed mild case, no side effects or issues.  On the way back, I packed the sleeve but didn't bother wearing it.

    I wish they would do more reseach on this topic.

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  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited August 2012

    pebee...Me too!  (Wishing 'they' would do more research on this topic) 

    I'm too scared to forget to wear my sleeve, because I did have post-flight issues early on, when wearing just UnderArmor shirts.  But I do wonder what the true effects of flight really are.  Research would be wonderful.  Too bad money for such things is in such short supply.

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