FLYING AFTER SURGERY

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rianne2580
rianne2580 Member Posts: 191
edited June 2014 in Lymphedema

I'm finding more studies that say flying has no effect on LE. Studies also say wearing the sleeve can have an adverse effect on LE. Has anyone had experience with this? I've had no symptoms of LE since my surgery March 2011 and am going to fly about 4 hours this Thurs. The study I find most interesting has 60 women fly from Canada to Australia...long flight!

Thanks!

Rianne

Comments

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited January 2012

    Rianne, here's an analysis of that study:

    http://www.stepup-speakout.org/research_updates_and_comments.htm#Compression_garments

    Compression Garments on Airplanes

    Controversial Study on Wearing Compression Garments While Flying Coming out of SABCS, December, 2008

    A controversial study has come out of the San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium, December, 2008. Air Travel Holds Little Lymphedema Risk for Breast Cancer Survivors.

    Note that this study was published as an abstract and presented orally at a conference. These data and conclusions should be considered to be preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal.

    Also note these prior studies: Lymphedema initiated by aircraft flights. Casley-Smith JR, Casley-Smith JR. Henry Thomas Laboratory, University of Adelaide, S.A., Australia. Precipitating factors in lymphedema : Myths and realities, Author, ROCKSON S. G

    Here's the press release:

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/SABCS/12142

    A study was presented at the 2008 San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium (SABCS) about the risk of lymphedema when flying. A news release about that study came out in the on-line newsletter, MedPageToday.

    According to the news release, the study found that women who've had breast cancer surgery "need not worry" about developing lymphedema when flying.

    But, that isn't what the researchers said in their report. The results and conclusions in their SABCS meeting abstract (Abstract #1119) are different from what the news release says. Here's a link to a page with a search engine that can be used to type in the abstract number and access the abstract of the study: http://www.abstracts2view.com/sabcs/sessionindex.php

    The study involved 75 women who had recovered from breast cancer surgery and were flying to Queensland, Australia, to participate in a dragon boat regatta. The researchers used "bioimpedance" to measure extracellular fluid in the arms of the women before and after the airplane flights.

    One problem with the study is that bioimpedance was the only method the researchers used to see if the women had developed lymphedema. Some lymphedema researchers and clinicians think bioimpedance might not be sensitive enough to detect lymphedema until it reaches a severe form (Stage III). So, swelling that was less severe might not have been detected in this study.

    According to the news release in MedPage Today, 5% of the women in the study did develop a "clinically significant" increase in arm fluid, as judged by bioimpedance. Five percent seems like enough of a risk to warrant taking precautions when flying. What is odd is that the researchers reported a different number in their abstract--not 5%--for the prevalence of "clinically significant" arm fluid. They said 15 of the 75 women developed a "clinically significant" increase; and 15 of 75 is 20%, not 5%. Twenty percent is considerable risk. Most women would probably think a risk of 20% was worth "worrying about," and worth taking precautions.

    But not all the women in the study were at equal risk of developing lymphedema. Of the 75 women, 12 took fairly short flights to Queensland from other locations in Australia. Only one of those 12 women had a "clinically significant" accumulation of arm fluid. The other 63 women in the study flew all the way to Australia from Canada, which was a much longer flight--a "long haul" flight, according to the researchers. Among the 63 women who took the trans-oceanic flights, 14 had a "clinically significant" increase in arm fluid. So, the women on the longer flights had a 14/63 = 22% chance of developing a "clinically significant" increase in arm fluid. That number would likely attract most women's attention and cause them concern.

    According to the researchers, 8 of the 15 women who had a "clinically significant" increase in arm fluid had enough of an increase for it to be diagnostic of lymphedema (i.e., they actually developed lymphedema). All 8 of those women were on the flights from Canada. That means 8/63 = 12.7% of the women who took the trans-oceanic flights developed bona fide lymphedema in association with their flights. The news release said all but 2 of those women had been diagnosed with lymphedema previously. That statement implies that lymphedema triggered by flying is somehow less important if it is a recurrence than if it is a new case. In contrast to that statement in the news release, the number of new cases reported in the abstract was much higher. The researchers said in their abstract that 6 of the 8 women diagnosed with bona fide lymphedema in association with the flight had not had arm swelling prior to the flight--this was a new diagnosis of lymphedema for them.

    Finally, the news release failed to emphasize an important point: The women in this study were traveling to Australia to participate in a dragon boat regatta. According to the researchers, 94% of the women in the study had "trained at a moderate to vigorous intensity for the regatta." We can probably assume they were in pretty good shape--their upper-body conditioning was likely much better than that of most women after breast cancer treatment. Several studies have shown that a supervised exercise program involving upper-body strength training can reduce the risk of lymphedema after breast cancer surgery. Wouldn't that mean the women in this study were at lower risk of developing lymphedema in the first place? So, why would the news release mislead their readers by generalizing the findings to all women?

    The first sentence in the news release says, "Women who've had breast cancer surgery need not worry that pressure changes in an airplane cabin will bring on lymphedema, researchers found." But that's very different from what the researchers concluded in their abstract. Here's what the abstract said: "For the majority of women who undertake moderate to vigorous upper limb exercise, airplane travel did not have a significant impact on extracellular fluid ratio."
    Those two statements mean very different things. The discrepancies in representation of the results of this study are troubling, and should be clarified for the benefit of all women who have been treated for breast cancer and are facing the risk of lymphedema.

    I believe this has been published, and actually--bioimpedance is fraught with insensitivity--it requires serial measurements, taken when the patient is laying down, with an empty bladder, no caffeine or alcohol, and is actually possibly best at detecting early increases in extracellular swelling. The manufacturer states that the L-dex is "not intended to diagnose or predict lymphedema." It is manufactured in Australia, hence the reliance on it.

    The NLN position paper says to weigh your risk, and get well fitting compression if you decide to wear it.

    http://www.lymphnet.org/lymphedemaFAQs/positionPapers.htm

    Jane/Onebadboob, is a participant in an NYU research study, where the head researcher does not believe in compression on air flights--with no data to back that up--yet Jane got LE after a plane flight and the graduate student who took her measurements said she was the 180th woman in the study to implicate air flight as a trigger.

    It is an area of controversy. Some therapists will recommend a low compression sleeve--15-20 mm, only made by Jobst, with a 20-30 mm gauntlet.

    I'd suggest you read the NLN position paper, and hope that helps with your decision.

    Kira

  • Corrie
    Corrie Member Posts: 35
    edited January 2012

    Hi,

    I had 17 lymph nodes removed from my right armpit.  I fly regularly for work and have flown probably ten times since my surgery and have had no problems.  I bought I sleeve but have yet to wear it.  I saw a physical therapist after my mastectomy and she taught me a few excercises that get the lymph fluid moving and can decrease the risk of lymphadema.  They're real simple, like making fists with your hands and moving your head around.  I hope this helped. Good luck to you!

  • kira66715
    kira66715 Member Posts: 4,681
    edited January 2012

    Rianne, I bumped a recent thread: this gets discussed again and again on this forum, so you can search for other threads.

    The bottom line is that it is a risk, and you have to decide how you chose to approach it.

    Kira

  • crystalphm
    crystalphm Member Posts: 1,138
    edited January 2012

    I always wear sleeves when flying, it is a good easy precaution and then you don't have to worry. It just makes sense to be cautious.

    Of course many women fly without compression, but I really don't care to be the one who gets a problem, when it is preventable...

  • Binney4
    Binney4 Member Posts: 8,609
    edited January 2012

    I developed lymphedema in my hand and arm on a three-hour flight. I did not have a proper compression sleeve, and it was no fun at all trying to get help in a strange town. In fact, I couldn't get help there and had to fly home again without anything to help contain the swelling. I made a fist of my hand and sat on it all the way home; it was distressing and downright frightening. (And as a strategy for preventing swelling it didn't workUndecided!)

    Corrie, I'm so happy for you that you've had no problems with LE yet, and I truly hope you'll never join our Sorority of Swell. Once we've been treated for bc we're all at risk for LE for the rest of our lives. It develops when the already-compromised lymph system is overwhelmed, which can happen at any point and is unpredictable.

    We all make our own compromises with the risk, and that's as it should be. But we need to understand the risk in order to make informed choices. If I knew when I took that flight what I know now, I would definitely have been prepared and aware. For me that was not a choice, because no one warned me. I hope no bc veteran ever has to face that situation without their knowledge of what it could mean to them.Tongue out

    Has anyone metioned that compression garments need to fit really well or they're a hazard instead of a help? Here's information on fitting of compression garments:
    http://www.stepup-speakout.org/proper_fitting_of_lymphedema_garments.htm

    Hugs all around, and happy travels!Smile
    Binney

  • kcshreve
    kcshreve Member Posts: 1,148
    edited February 2012

    I wear sleeves and gauntlets, and still have difficulties for a couple days after a flight.  I already  have LE, and flights are a definite challenge.  There was some research recently comparing those who go get LE and those who don't.  I'm not remembering the exact details, but there is a pattern of reduced whole body lymphatic efficiency overall for those who develop LE.   For me, since I had a bmx, that would probably mean it would take less for me to develop LE in my "other" arm than someone with great lymphatic efficiency.  I wear sleeves on both arms, even though I have LE officially in only one.

  • carol57
    carol57 Member Posts: 3,567
    edited February 2012

    I already have LE, so I'm in compression while flying.  But I can tell you that I have learned not to double up on what I know tends to make my LE flare. Flying without compression before my official LE diagnosis caused swelling, and now that I'm wearing compression, I am generally ok even after a full day of flying.  EXCEPT if I get off that final flight and add cardio exercise to my day.  Cardio with lots of arm pumping treats me fine if that's all I'm doing, and I am in a compression shirt for that.  But I simply must not fly and pump arms in cardio exercise --not even speed walking--on that day. That's just my experience, but maybe it's worthwhile thinking about your activity on the day you fly, and being careful about lifting heavy weights or other activities that the LE precautions have us thinking about.  Well, good luck with that if you're hefting a heavy bag!

  • rianne2580
    rianne2580 Member Posts: 191
    edited February 2012

    Thanks for input. I've decided to fly without the sleeve. I've never used it, never had a problem. I'm just not sure it fits properly and I know that can be worse. The PT didn't really go over all the things to look out for in fitting properly. It is a shorter flight, less than 2 hours one leg and less that an hour the other leg. I plan to message, move around, hold my arm above my head.

    I had cuts, burns, poison ivy (very bad) and over used this poor arm using the whip it with my dog. I run every other day for 5 miles and lift groceries etc. Yes I get really sore sometimes, but more in my chest muscle than my arm. Never  had a flare up. I do worry about cabin pressure, but from some of the studies that should not be an issue. I wish they would do a huge study about this. There are no studies about sleeves and flying other than the Australia one. I'll chime in after I get back, probably crying wishing I'd listened to wiser people.

  • ptdreamers
    ptdreamers Member Posts: 1,080
    edited February 2012

    rianne2580, There have some posts that sisters who have had little or no lymphedema have used Armour Underall compression shirts. I am flying to Europe in a few months and am flying to Florida in about three weeks. I bought two shirts, one short sleeve and one long sleeve that I plan on wearing on the flights and for a couple of hours after. I figure its cheap insurance. I did find that the men's fits better than the ladies sizes. I bough a men's medium after I returned the ladies large. They just seem to be more comfortable and the sleeves fit better. good luck with whatever you decide.

  • ptdreamers
    ptdreamers Member Posts: 1,080
    edited February 2012

    rianne2580, There have some posts that sisters who have had little or no lymphedema have used Armour Underall compression shirts. I am flying to Europe in a few months and am flying to Florida in about three weeks. I bought two shirts, one short sleeve and one long sleeve that I plan on wearing on the flights and for a couple of hours after. I figure its cheap insurance. I did find that the men's fits better than the ladies sizes. I bough a men's medium after I returned the ladies large. They just seem to be more comfortable and the sleeves fit better. good luck with whatever you decide.

  • rianne2580
    rianne2580 Member Posts: 191
    edited February 2012

    Back from Boston. Did not wear a sleeve fearing worse situation since it was not fitted professionally. I raised my arm often during 4 seperate flights, tight fist and twirl wrist. Did not swell at all. I know I could swell a few weeks from now, but so far no pain, no swell. I think the length of the flight has a lot to do with it. If I were going to Europe, I would march back to the PT and get a fitted one with a glove. I have no glove. Thanks for input.

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