Curcumin---

Hi Apple!  With what type of pepper do you make your mix? Am sneezing already.

Jeannie 

So I am a little confused.  I just went off of Tamoxifen after 2 1/2 months (with my MO's approval) because of severe muscle and joint pain in my arms and shoulders.  I'm thinking he may try to put me back on it after my appointment in early Feb.  Either way, it sounds like turmeric/curcumin would help with both pain and recurrence.  If I can't take tamoxifen, I would certainly be looking for other, more natural ways to prevent recurrence.

So which is better, turmeric or curcumin.  I know curcumin is derived from turmeric, so is it better, or does turmeric have benefits that curcumin doesn't have?

 Just an FYI------- If you ladies are interested in curcumin/turmeric I suggest you take a look at a product called Protandim. Turmeric is one of the 4 or 5 ingredients in this proprietary blend.  It seems to be a very good way to fight free radicals, inflammation, etc. I started taking it today after talking with the pharmacist at my oncologist office.  I wanted to make sure it wouldn't interfere with the Arimidex I have been taking for 4.2 years.  She said it would not interfere w/ Arimidex and that it is one of the top products out there. But one thing she did warn me about is that these products protect ALL cells, cancer or benign. You can check out Protandim on the web. There are also videos on youtube done by the doctor who developed this .

anniebell - in regards to your question about curcumin and chemo simultaneously - according to some of the websites I've searched, curcumin can interfere with some types of chemo. 

Carola, The combination you describe above sounds very yummy!  I think I will give it a try this weekend.  Thanks for the idea.

You're welcome FLwarrior!

Good idea Anita. I eat eggs every morning (organic of course), cut them, and sprinkle seaweed (wakame, nori or sea lettuce, or why not a mix) all over - I just love the oceany taste. So I'll try to use curcumin that way too :-)

I wanted to share a recipy which I find particularly tasty; it's an Indian coconut & lentil dhal and has 'all' the 'good stuff' inside (or atleast I like to believe so!). In a casserole, heat up two tablespoons of olive oil. Slice a red onion and chop two cloves of garlic. Add. Be careful that it doesn"t burn. When the onion has turned transparent (after a couple of minutes), add two teaspoons of curcumin, one ts of cayennepepper & one ts of garam masala (a mix of spices). I know the latter contains cloves, ginger and cardamom, spices that ER+ girls should be careful about, but hey, I don't think they are strong enough to wreak havoc, especially if you choose fresh, organic ones. In organic stores there are often 'ready mixes' of G.Masala.

Anyway, the spicemix burns easily, so be careful. After five minutes you can add squash, tomatoes & carrots (chopped), aswell as sliced chicken. Mix. The idea is to incorporate the spices into all the ingrediens. The more you add, the thicker the dhal will be. After another 5 min. add coral lentils (about two or three small cups) and mix. Add coconut milk (13 Oz, sorry I'm no expert of American measuring, 4 dl in Europe) and the same amount of water. Let it simmer for 35-40 minutes (mix & check the consistency every 5 min and) until you obtain a nice, gooey dhal. 15 minutes before the end, add some coriander & lemonjuice (equivalent to a squeezed lemon). Add salt & pepper to your liking. Et voilà! My husband & daughter ADOOORES the dhal, it has become our special occasion food :-D

The naan bread that usually comes with dhal are easy to make:

-One and a half cup of flour (I always use spelt)

-A cup of plain youghurt. (Those small, one serving cups, you know?) 

-Tiny bit of sal.

-Baking powder, half a bag (little one).

-a tablespoon of olive oil & a tiny bit of lukewarm water.

-some cumin if you like it.

Mix flour (salt & b.powder already added) with yoghurt & the olive oil to make a nice paste, if too 'dry' add some lukewarm water until it gets they you want it to (non-sticky and easy to handle). Cut the paste in 6 pieces and flatten them out rapidly (I use this "rolling pin"..?). They shouldn't be too thin, just enough to let you handle them without being scared of destroying them. Let fry with a little olive oil for a couple of minutes on each side. Yummy! I've noticedmy stomach is particularly content with me when I eat Indian spices, but that's just me!

 http://indianfood.about.com/od/masalarecipes/r/garammasala.htm

• 4 tbsps coriander seeds
• 1 tbsp cumin seeds
• 1 tbsp black peppercorns
• 1 ½ tsps black cumin seeds (shahjeera)
• 1 ½ tsps dry ginger
• ¾ tsp black cardamom (3-4 large pods approx)
• ¾ tsp cloves
• ¾ tsp cinnamon (2 X 1” pieces)
• ¾ tsp crushed bay leaves

Carola30 - I have a question about a comment you made in regards to Ginger, Cardamom and Clove.  You said something about those spices being a problem for ER+ cancer, yet I've been told by my Naturopath that Ginger and Cardamom (he didn't say anything about clove) were very beneficial for fighting my kind of cancer (ER+/PR+).  Could you please let me know where you heard they were a problem?  I'd like to investigate further, as right now I'm taking a ginger supplement, and use cardamom often and heavily.  If that's a problem I surely don't want to continue doing it.

 Thank-you!!!

Hello gardengumby,

First of all, thank you for asking, it made me realize that I put ginger & cardamom in the same bag as red clover, I don't know why. Maybe I got it wrong in the beginning and had never been corrected, until now. Immediately after I read your message, I started searching info about cardamom & ginger and saw they are actually proven to work AGAINST ER+ breastcancer! I love cardamom too, and was feeling sinful every time I put some in my yoghurt. My apologies! (blushing fervently!!)

 There are huge discussions whether ER+/PR+ women should consume soy among other plants & spices with estrogen-mimicing activities. Soy is for example believed to be HIGHLY estrogenic and is unsuitable for hormonedependant diseases in the eyes of many. Clover is a phyto-estrogenic spice, BUT the question is, in my honest opinion, if one should flee EVERYTHING with estrogenic activities, do they do us harm OR is it possible they help regulate hormone levels, without suppressing either estrogen or progesterone? The articles below don't say the same thing for example, even if one is 'more serious' perhaps than the other.  

http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/red-clover.

http://www.herbwisdom.com/herb-red-clover.html

Now, I know I'm off topic, it's not my intention to steer this thread away from its original subject.

(Still blushing, but thank you for making me realize my mistake. I'm certainly no naturopath :-D )

I was wondering if you could just stuff empty gelatin caps from the drugstore with  turmeric from the bulk food store, and a bit of black pepper.  It seems to me that whenever I see curcumin it is so expensive. How much turmeric would one use per day? I'm just never going to cook with it on a continuing basis.

Carola 30 - I just love your recipes! in Canada we can buy authentic naan made by President's Choice - apparently we have one of the largest naan ovens in the world (or so I thought I read).

 In your recipes when you say add, say, 1.5 tsp curcumin, are you intending to say 1.5 tsp turmeric? I haven't looked into it much, but isn't curcumin just one of the plant components of turmeric? so you wouldn't be using loose or bulk curcumin - you're using turmeric? I can't wait to try the ymmy coconut milk red lentil dish. Must add that sadly, I'm now a lazy cook and eat far too much junk.

I'm going to get me some of that.  I feel like a 90 yo lady sometimes.  Joint and muscle pain from Arimidex.

I thought most of the studies done used turmeric. They found out that the cur cumin was the anti inflammatory component. They then isolated cur cumin and bottled it. My thought is, they studied this spice because Indians (India) have a low rate of BC because of the amount of curry they eat. They use turmeric in curry. I feel the whole spice is needed. Maybe I'll add a cur cumin supplement but I won't stop using the WHOLE spice.

Hi PLJ - I've gotten such a huge benefit from curcumin phytosone (also recommended by my cancer specialist ND) in regards to the aches and pains of letrozole, that there's no way I'd even consider stopping taking it.  The fact that it's also supposed to fight cancer (the reason my ND prescribed it for me) is simply a huge mark in the plus category.  I don't avoid all soy, as my oncologist said she thought that was overkill.

In addition to the supplement, though, I also use a lot of turmeric - but I always have.  It didn't keep me from getting BC, but maybe it slowed it down a little.

I use Jarrow Formulas supplement for Curcumin, and have to say that it helps with joint pain for me. I do a lot of strenuous activity, as I train for triathlons, marathon, etc.  If I take 1-2 pills a day, I don't notice the pain at all!  Another side note is that I use it to cook with as well. 

I make the following recipe, as I am gluten free I tend to eat A LOT of chicken and rice!

Olive oil in a frying pain, diced onions, red bell peppers, green bell peppers, orange bell peppers.

Put onions in first, cooke them until transparent on medium/low heat.  Add organic chicken strips (I buy mine frozen from Whole Foods), all the peppers.  Allow the chicken to "sear" on both sides on high, then add 1.5 C chicken broth. Cover with lid, and allow to cook. (I don't time things or measure really, so I am guessing on time). As veggies and chicken are cooking, I add curcumin salt and pepper) I cook wild rice, and serve the chicken/veggie mix with the rice.

My kids like the dish, it's GF, and it fits the requirements my nutritionist gave me:  3 colors on one plate, every meal!  Believe me, it doesn't sound like a struggle, but it is. I try to get 3 colors on each plate, and I usually only achieve it at dinner......   

I use Thorne Research Meriva-SR 250 mg, I take 3 capsules morning, 2 evening.  I also cook with turmeric - more because I love it than because it's good for me, to be honest - I'm also gluten free, which also helps reduce the aches