am I a dum-dum or a trailblazer?

this is so interesting.. keep us posted.

Cookie, Having never heard of prolotherapy, I did a google search--just a bunch of orthopods talking about it, and then a pubmed search and frankly, I'm concerned.

The premise is to inject irritants into the body to treat pain. It's only been tested for back pain and arthritis, and the complications can be serious.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16813776

Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 2006 Jul;87(7):909-13.
Side effects and adverse events related to intraligamentous injection of sclerosing solutions (prolotherapy) for back and neck pain: A survey of practitioners.
Dagenais S, Ogunseitan O, Haldeman S, Wooley JR, Newcomb RL.
Source

Department of Pediatrics, University of Ottawa, ON, Canada. simon@camresearch.com
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:

To study the side effects and adverse events related to intraligamentous injection of sclerosing solutions (prolotherapy) for back and neck pain.
DESIGN:

Practitioner postal survey.
SETTING:

Postal survey of practitioners of prolotherapy for back and neck pain in the United States and Canada.
PARTICIPANTS:

A sample of prolotherapy practitioners from 2 professional organizations were surveyed about their training and experience, use of specific treatment procedures, estimated prevalence of side effects, and adverse events related to prolotherapy for back and neck pain.
INTERVENTIONS:

Not applicable.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES:

Prevalence of side effects and adverse events.
RESULTS:

Surveys were completed by 171 practitioners (response rate, 50%). Ninety-eight percent held medical degrees, and 83% were board certified in various disciplines. Respondents had a median of 10 years of experience, during which they had treated a median of 500 patients and given a median of 2000 treatments. Side effects with the highest median estimated prevalence were pain (70%), stiffness (25%), and bruising (5%). There were 472 reports of adverse events, including 69 that required hospitalization and 5 that resulted in permanent injury secondary to nerve injury. The vast majority (80%) were related to needle injuries such as spinal headache (n = 164), pneumothorax (n=123), temporary systemic reactions (n = 73), nerve damage (n = 54), hemorrhage (n = 27), nonsevere spinal cord insult (ie, meningitis, paralysis, spinal cord injury) (n = 9), and disk injury (n = 2).
CONCLUSIONS:

Side effects related to prolotherapy for back and neck pain, such as temporary postinjection pain, stiffness, and bruising, are common and benign. Adverse events related to prolotherapy for back and neck pain are similar in nature to other widely used spinal injection procedures. Further study is needed to fully describe the adverse event profile of prolotherapy for back and neck pain.

And to clarify it's use in primary care:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20188998Prim Care. 2010 Mar;37(1):65-80.
Prolotherapy in primary care practice.
Rabago D, Slattengren A, Zgierska A.
Source

Department of Family Medicine, University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, 777 South Mills Street, Madison, WI 53715, USA. David.rabago@fammed.wisc.edu
Abstract

Prolotherapy is an injection-based complementary and alternative medical therapy for chronic musculoskeletal pain. Prolotherapy techniques and injected solutions vary by condition, clinical severity, and practitioner preferences; over several treatment sessions, a fairly small volume of an irritant or sclerosing solution is injected at sites on painful ligament and tendon insertions and in adjacent joint space during several treatment sessions. Prolotherapy is becoming increasingly popular in the United States and internationally and is actively used in clinical practice. Prolotherapy has been assessed as a treatment for various painful chronic musculoskeletal conditions that are refractory to "standard of care" therapies. Although anecdotal clinical success guides the use of prolotherapy for many conditions, clinical trial literature supporting evidence-based decision-making for the use of prolotherapy exists for low back pain, several tendinopathies, and osteoarthritis.

If you do a pubmed search for prolotherapy and lymphedema there are zero articles.

So, I just don't like the idea of someone injecting an unknown substance into an area with compromised lymphatic function.

I also, respectfully disagree wih Dr. Francis as I see a lot of breast lymphedema in the rad onc office where I work, and it NEVER pits--it shows up as swelling, increased pore size, thickening.

I'm going to second Binney's comments: interesting, but potentially dangerous.

Please Cookie, be careful! And keep us in the loop about this uncharted territory.

(I know I'm acting like a killjoy here, but it worries me.)

Kira

Wow, cookie - you are no dum dum but I would be nervous about this too.  My LE therapist has been working on my scars, but she does it strictly with massage, and it's extremely light.  I already have LE on my right side along the scars on that side and it's also right below my armpit and on into my back.  I feel very 'dough-boyish' on that side.  I cannot imagine allowing anyone to inject me in my scars.  It sounds painful and potentially problematic.

Having said that, I get completely that you want a solution.  Boy, do I get that. 

If you decide to go forward, please keep us updated on how it's going. 

I think my last sentence proves that you are beyond doubt, a pioneer.

Go west, young woman!

Cookie, what kind of new exercises? Are you doing them, and how do they feel?

Just curious,
Binney

I googled a phrase from the material Cookie quoted ("The technique developed for the treatment of Achilles tendons differs from classical prolotherapy in that the injections are given immediately") and got 3 hits, plus Cookie's post in this thread.  All 3 of the hits were for quasi-medical websites that dealt with pain relief and treatment of certain injuries.  All 3 of the websites quoted or stated the same thing, and all 3 credited "John Lyftogt" as the source of the information.  None of the sites gave a more specific citation (journal article, symposium proceedings, website) -- they just said the information they were providing was "adapted from" "John Lyftogt" or that he was the "source".  (ETA:  John Lyftogt is also cited in those articles as the "developer" of neural prolotherapy.)

A disclaimer, FWIW:  I know nothing about "prolotherapy".  It sounds way too ill-defined and experimental to me.  The whole point of the treatment seems to be to trigger an inflammatory reaction or irritant reaction at the injection site.  To me, that seems like a very risky thing to do in tissue that already has lymphedema or is at risk of developing it.  But, as always, YMMV.

otter

Cookie, you know I admire you no matter what, I'm just a bit more concerned than Otter.

I think about how long you struggled with an atypical cellulitis and I look at the basic premise of prolotherapy which is to inject irritating substances to create an inflammatory response, and how there's little in the literature, and most claims are on the practitioners' websites.

I know you are one smart cookie, and you will do this with thought and care and careful observation.

And, perhaps in this situation, less is more--the less you inject, the more you can assess the reaction.

And report back to us, okay?

Kira

Cookie, I've got to tell you--I told my LE therapist about prolotherapy, and she didn't like the concept of it.....

Just another voice heard from.

Hope things feel better, and I'm waiting on the edge of my seat for Francis' take on this.

Kira

hrf, I think osteopaths can vary, depending on their practice. Some may be more natural or do specialized stuff, but most that I'm aware of here practice just like regular doctors. My primary care doctor is actually an osteopath (D.O., not an M.D.), in a large practice with M.D.s and there's no difference in his treatments or methods.