Alcohol and breast cancer question!!!

Agreed..I think it's all a "crap shoot"  I have a feeling if they might take a look at the number of women who were placed on birth control at 15 and stayed on it until they were in their early 30's I think they may find that might have a little more to do with this.  I'm 42 and know appx. 10 - 15 women my age or younger also diagnosed in my hometown.  I beleive some of it is due to the factories/steel mills in our areas, but more so the "family planning" center we all went to without our parents consent to be placed on birth control for free.  While I understand it does help with teenage pregnancy, I'm not sure they would have selected the best birth control option/pill.  I was also a drinker..I suppose a moderate one, I was never someone who could go out get "loaded" and then go out the next day and drink again or even the next day.  But nevertheless I did drink..I truly enjoy a good glass of beer and plan to partake in one or two every so often.  I've very much minimized the getting totally  sh** faced, I'm just too old for it and it takes too long to recoupe!  Our food source is another thing to consider, I look at young girls now and think my goodness they look like they are in their 20's I know we looked older too, but I'm certain not that old.  I think it's much of what they feed the livestock to speed up the growing process for meat and milk.  Sorry I'm getting off my soap box, but I think sometimes certain things get a "bad rap" and I feel pretty confident folks/researchers aren't going to go up against the government and FDA otherwise they could very easily lose funding.  

brillance2 Check out the thread also on this topic: "Potential Hope for Drinking a Glass or Two"  I posted a blip from Health Magazine.  It contradicted everything that I have ever seen regarding BC and alcohol.

I agree with what many have said here.  It's every woman's choice, and quality of life is so very important when we are compromising so many other things once given a cancer diagnosis.

Cheers everyone!! 

Hi everyone - I just want to add to this that I live in France and when I asked my oncologist about a potential need to cut out alcohol he got an  uncomprehending look on his face. "Mais... non!"   It was really almost funny, in comparison to the usual "no no no!" finger you get wagged in your face.  He said it's not a good idea to over-indulge - even if you don't have BC as it's just not healthy (unfortunately), but a glass or two with dinner occasionally did not worry him overmuch. And I don't think France has a higher rate of recurrance than the US.  That was, need I say, exactly what I was hoping he'd say.

It relaxes me.  I like it. I'm probably not going to drink as much as I used to - though I know BC survivors who put it down handily with no obvious ill effects - (anecdotal evidence is not terribly useful but anyway) but if I want a glass of wine, I'll have one.  Life is too short.  I'm more interested in the connection between sugar and BC.  Not that that would be easy to give up either!  My vices are fairly limp, I'd like to keep them...

Had wine with friends last night (!) and this discussion came up. A friend works at a BC large facility and she said said so much of BC is just bad luck! She sees so many women with so many backgrounds. The Oncs there stress moderation.I was just talking to a newly diagnosed woman who was told point blank by her MD that she didn't cause this....that her risk factor was being born with breasts! I really don't want to live my life feeling quilty....am I drinking too much? eating too much sugar or meat? not enough veggies or exercise???I will try my best to stay healthy and hope for the best!

I stopped drinking alcohol as soon as I was diagnosed. I was a regular (but not heavy) drinker. My son was only 1 when I was diagnosed - I vowed to do everything I can to keep this thing at bay. Not having booze anymore was the least I could do for him. There is a lot of conjecture about what does and doesn't influence BC risk - but the data against alcohol now is pretty compelling.

Overall my health has improved since I stoped drinking. Lost weight too. But it is a personal choice thing. I really don't miss it.

No more alcohol for me.I am ILC and don't want to take any chances.  I was quite a social drinker of wine before all this and don't miss it at all now.  I just don't want to look back and have any regrets about choices I made. But that's MY choice, and others are free to choose to drink or not. There won't be any judgment from me about that. I would as others suggested talk to your oncologist, who I hope specializes in breast cancer and not just cancer as a whole.  Don't listen to PA advice: they are nowhere near expert voices on a complex issue as this is..

There is a lot of controversy over alcohol and BC vs the benefits of alcohol and heart disease.

This was an interesting article. I hope the link works, if not just copy and paste in your browser.



For ER+ I have a question. If we are on AI's to block estrogen...would the AI's block us from getting increased estrogen levels from wine? I'll grasp at any hope to continue my nightly 2 glasses of wine...lol



http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/alcohol-full-story/index.html#Dark_side_alcohol

This might be your miracle!!  I posted this on another thread, and could hardly believe what I was reading.  Of course one must use their own judgment.  This came from Health Magazine Dec issue:

 "Raise a glass to  long-lasting good health: Women who are moderate drinnkers (one or two alcoholic drinks a day) at midlife are more likely than nondrinkers to reach age 70 without having any major chronic disease (including cancer, diabetes, and heart disease) or major cognitive or physical impairment, according to a new Harvard University study.  What's more, the more often you drink, the better.  Those that had one or two drinks five to seven days a week were more likely to stay well into their golden years than those who drank only once or twice a week.  Now there's a prescription we'll gladly stick to!"

This does not take into account a woman who already had a disease, but it's a different point of view than most of us have been being told is what we should be doing.  Just thought I'd put it out there.

I was told by both the nutritionist and integrative specialist @ UCLA, "if you're going to drink, limit it to a glass of champagne at wedding receptions."  There's also a fairly recent study (2010) that indicates a difference between IDC (possibly okay to drink in moderation) and ILC (bad for us).

I think there's also confusion about what moderate drinking means.  I read somewhere that "up to two drinks a day" was used at one point to set an upper limit on the term "moderate drinking." But as a result, two drinks a day has become an acceptable "moderate drinker" standard, when that was never its intent. 

Here's some recent research capsulized:

http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/study-supports-alcohol-breast-cancer-link-201111033747

http://ww5.komen.org/KomenNewsArticle.aspx?id=6442452439

http://www.medpagetoday.com/HematologyOncology/BreastCancer/21853         Deanna

A study found that rats who were given alcohol had reduced tumors and the ones that were not advanced with their cancer. The problem is they figured out that in humans the amount needed for the same results would make someone a raging alcoholic. This finding came out right after the study confirming bc risk is elevated with alcohol. Well that really clears things up,doesn't it? Always look at who funded the study,that's key.

I found the article that Barbara sent me in her PM to be really confusing.  While they state the implications for prostate cancer, they don't state the implications for breast cancer.  

Here's a link to the article:  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/10/111017092237.htm 

And here's how I assessed the article:

Prostate Cancer:    More Androgen Receptor (AR gene) ---> less PTEN

.                              Less PTEN ----> More Prostate Cancer

Therefore for men the strategy should be to reduce AR gene production in order to increase PTEN and reduce cancer rates.

Breast Cancer:       Less Androgen Receptor (AR gene) ---> less PTEN

.                             Less PTEN ----> More Breast Cancer

Therefore for women the strategy should be to increase AR gene production in order to increase PTEN and reduce cancer rates.

Where the article loses me is on the connection to red wine that's made in the last paragraph. If red wine increases PTEN production, then it should be effective at reducing both prostate cancer risk (as the article seems to indicate) and breast cancer risk (but the article doesn't say this). Instead they simply point out that opposite strategies are needed for men and women. That would make sense if red wine was related to AR levels but it doesn't make sense if red wine is directly related to PTEN levels. However the article seems to suggest that the connection is direct from red wine to PTEN (which raises the question as to what the discussion about AR is all about). From other articles I've found, red wine does in fact seem to be related directly to PTEN.

So following the logical flow of the argument in the article, my conclusion would be that red wine should be beneficial to post-menopausal women in terms of reducing breast cancer risk. But that's not what the article says and they seem to be implying the opposite. Maybe it's because the studies haven't shown that to be true.  

If anyone has a different interpretation about this, or more knowledge on the subject, it would be great to learn more.

As for a more general discussion about alcohol and breast cancer, I think that the evidence is clear that there is a connection between alcohol consumption and increased breast cancer rates however from everything I've read, it appears that the connection is weak - I don't find the case to be compelling at all.  This has been discussed recently in another thread, referencing specifically some articles here on BC.org.  http://community.breastcancer.org/livegreen/alcohol-and-cancer-you-cant-drink-to-your-health/

The BC.org article says "The studies show that not everyone who drinks regularly gets cancer and not everyone who gets cancer drinks - only 3.5% of deaths from cancer worldwide are because of alcohol. BUT - and this is a big but - experts estimate that 90% of those deaths in men could be avoided if they limited themselves to only two drinks a day and 50% of the deaths in women could be avoided if they had only one drink a day." So if 3.5% of cancer deaths are because of alcohol, is it fair to say that about 1.8% of those deaths are women? And that 0.9% of those deaths could be avoided if these women limited themselves to only one drink a day? To me that doesn't suggest that cutting out alcohol completely will reduce the risk much. And if 0.9% of female cancer deaths are caused by alcohol, how many of those are deaths are from breast cancer?  There are other cancers that have a much stronger connection to alcohol consumption so I would think that most of those cancer deaths are not from breast cancer. It would be nice if there was more information on this. The fact that there isn't suggests to me (but maybe I'm being unfair) that more detailed data would not be particularly supportive in making the case that we have to make changes in our alcohol consumption habits (assuming we drink in moderation).

After a different study on BC and Alcohol came out a year or two ago, I saw video that explained the results.  I loved the common sense approach:     http://www.ecancermedicalscience.com/tv/video-by-category.asp?play=364&cid=5&scid=0&q=

As for the question as to "how much is too much?" and "what does 'in moderation' mean?", we have to remember that pretty much all the studies are self-reporting studies. Women need to record and report the amount of alcohol they consume over a long period of time (usually many years). These types of studies are notorious for under-reporting. So my guess is that the amount of alcohol consumed - and the amount that must be consumed to cause an increase in BC risk - is actually higher than reported in all the studies that we read about. 

Lastly, back to the subject of mortality.  While some studies have shown that BC rates increase with increased alcohol consumption, overall mortality does not seem to be affected.  This is because the most common cause of death for women is heart disease and a moderate consumption of alcohol is beneficial to the heart.  Here's a line that I read in another post on this subject recently (thanks Claire!): "I am indifferent as to where my risk comes from."  I couldn't agree more. I will not get so caught up in concerns about breast cancer risk that I forget about the fact that I face all sorts of other risks too.  Life is a balancing act.  Wine is something that I really enjoy. I will accept a somewhat increased BC risk (if it actually is really increased - maybe I'm one of the majority who is not affected) in exchange for a lower risk of heart disease and the enjoyment that I get from sharing a glass of wine with my DH.

We each have to decide for ourselves what we are willing to do to reduce our risk.  For many women, cutting out alcohol is an easy decision or something that they really want to do. That's great. I'm not arguing for increased alcohol consumption.  That would be irresponsible and the results of the studies are just too muddy.  However for me, reading research that I find to be anything but compelling, I choose to continue to consume - in moderation, of course! 

Edited for typos and to add clarity to a couple of points. 

Hi, I go to an oncologist at Hopkins and when I asked about lifestyle changes was told:

1. Cut down on red meat consumption

2. No soy supplements but eating soy foods occasionally is fine

3. Alcohol is not the witches brew (exact words) and fine in moderation

4. Single best thing I could do is exercise and maintain a healthy weight.

Oh...and I asked a different doctor I saw there about parabens, lotions, etc since I'm ER+.  I was told to stay away from tea tree oil and lavendar.  As for parabens....science doesn't show anything yet but if I want to be cautious, choose paraben free when I can but don't obsess over it.

As someone said before....moderation.

Hi all, yes I do think it is a personal choice,but I wanted to do all that I could to make my chances of survival increased, none of my doctors said I couldn,t have a drink or two, in fact I did hear red wine was good for you, so I did have a couple drinks AFTER treatment but then I decided to stop altogether, and have not had a drink since 2006, )Personal Choice) but I am 17 yrs (Cancer Free) a Survivor and I wonder if it is due in part to( No alchohol at all.)  msphil (idc, stage 2, 3 nodes involved, L mast, chemo and rads and 5 yrs on Tamoxifen. God Bless Us ALL> 

Hi voraciousreader, You and I sound a lot alike , I drink a glass or 2 of wine at night after work while I'm cooking ( I loooove that,) in my youth I hardly drank ,never took drugs and quit drinking totally for many years in early marriage, while raising kids etc. if I didn't drink now ,technically I'd have no risk factors , heathy weight, exercised more than regularly, excellent blood pressure, no history of diabetes ,eat an extremely healthy diet,etc, etc. yet I still got cancer. I've read the studies and I am still going to enjoy my wine. Who knows what tomorrow may bring!