An Alternative approach to Stage IV Health and choices

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  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited December 2011

    Chevyboy, Kaara had me giggling too ! thank you dear for your posts and I sincerely hope that your hearing will come back with time {{hugs}} Am not stage IV either, hoping ThatsLife likes our company ;)



    Funny how you stood up to your onc Kaara, "NO WAY !! " lol

    Way to go lady !



    ThatsLife, just know that even though I'm not signing papers yet, those thoughts are on my mind. I'll be going through something and be thinking "I'll leave this or that to my nieces" then I have to stop, but they're always in the back of my mind. I am really glad an angel touched you today, feels real good doesn't it :))

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2011

    well, I spent the afternoon on the internet researching end stage Chemo. To be honest, i was feeling a bit guilty discussing the harder aspects of chemotherapy so much, when so many here are using it to deal with stage IV BC. I speak alot about choices, and respect, and I shouldnt spend so much time discussing the hard cold facts of chemo..I should be putting my energy into finding hard cold facts that can help us build our strength.

    So to be fair, i thought i would share that i came across some confronting information today. That is, that a 'natural' end stage can be a more painful and drawn out process, than a chemo treated end stage. Chemo can control symptoms, and sometimes pain levels, and lessen the time to death. So there you have it. I may be in for a bumpy ride when its my time. I think I understand the concept of maintenance chemo now. Im still signed up for a 'natural' end stage though...

    Im going to take a couple of days off. Those adv. care directives are a bit of downer. I'll be back soon, with some new recipes/mousy trial results/theories :) p.s. I love all the input here medici, its what keeps me going :)

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    thats-life:  You're not anywhere near that place right now, so try not to go there, but I understand that you do have to plan for adv. care...we all do.

     Here, when the end is near, hospice is called and they make you very comfortable, and from what I've seen, that is true...they never let the patient suffer any pain.  It comes into play when the patient has decided they want no more treatment.  Many, like my friend, die without the benefit of hospice because they are taking chemo right up until the end.  It's a choice that the patient and their family make.  I would choose hospice because it is a very peaceful way to pass.

    I have everything spelled out in my living will so the family will not be burdened with those decisions.  I did this years ago,  when my kids were still young. 

    Take some time for yourself....enjoy the moment!  Thank you for all that you do. 

  • Chevyboy
    Chevyboy Member Posts: 10,786
    edited December 2011

    Thatslife....well gals, I think it's about time for us to not read anymore...Ha!  Man, I just hate to think about that stuff..... It makes me think of my "friend" who when I told her I have breast cancer, she said "Well, if I ever have breast cancer, I'm NOT going to have surgery or anything else...I'm just going to go to Hospice when it's time, because you don't have to suffer!"  Quote, unquote!!! 

    So it really hurt....mostly because she made me feel like I was such a panty-waist for having surgery, when it "might have gone away by itself!"  Talk about alternative care!   I told her I was taking Tamoxifen, to keep from getting cancer again, and she said "So have you grown a beard yet?"   In her small little brain, she thought it was Testosterone....  Doesn't do any good to try & educate dinks.

    And in the mean time...... I have all of our arrangements made...sort of....So now I just want to forget it all, and go out and shop!

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited December 2011

    http://entnursing.com/earcareadvice.htm

    lulubee, you can use olive oil, too, if that's what you have on hand. There are detailed instructions in the link. I keep the oil bottle in a warm place. It has a small hole at the top so I just swig it into my ear. Quick and easy. I read about the treatment initially in an Ayurveda site. There sesame oil was recommended. I haven't been doing it for too long but it seems to have toned down a little bit but more importantly, the pitch is lower.

    thatslife, I just entered the title on google which I remembered from reading it years ago when I was pondering what survival rates for untreated breast cancer were.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1925646/pdf/brmedj02981-0019.pdf

    The above links to the Bloom article summarized in my previous post. There are citations with authors and years so you could probably find these by googling together with a description. Enjoy your break first and then do more research if you still feel like it.

  • lulubee
    lulubee Member Posts: 1,493
    edited December 2011

    Thanks, Heidi -- that is good info.  Coconut oil is said to be anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, anti-viral, and anti-inflammatory as well... so I'm thinking it stands to reason that it might have benefits to the ear beyond just helping with wax buildup and tinnitis.  Olive oil is wonderful stuff but I don't know whether it claims those properties, do you?  When my children were younger and had earaches, I used a preparation of drops that contained olive oil and garlic oil, and it always helped.

    I'll give that protocol in your link a try -- anything to tone down this noise!  I guess my ears have decided to 'ring in the season' because they are really going at it with glee. 

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited December 2011

    Ladies, I dont have hearing problems but my granddaughter had earaches, hearing problems and ringing in the ears.  I got her some ear drops from the following website and they cleared up her problems.  We also use the throat spray from this company and they work wonders as well.  You can get them from Amazon or many other sites, I just linked this site because it has lots of information about the product and testimonials. 

     http://www.seagateproducts.com/earache-remedy.html

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    I suffer off and on from vertigo, and a couple of years ago, I had ringing in my ears, so I know how annoying it can be!  I read there was nothing you could do, and eventually it went away.

     When I get the vertigo, I use a small quarter of a seasick patch on my ear, and it controls it.  I have the coconut oil and will try using that, because I do get a lot of wax buildup.  Do you warm it first?

  • apple
    apple Member Posts: 7,799
    edited December 2011

    the coconut oil would certainly have to be warmed so it was liquid.  The body temperature should keep it warm.  I can't say enough good things about coconut oil.. I buy it for myself and application to my body and my boys use it for cooking..  aaaargh

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    Thank you apple!  Have a wonderful weekend.

  • 3littlegirls
    3littlegirls Member Posts: 853
    edited December 2011

    Hi ladies, 

    I have terrible dry hands. In Calgary it is super dry (especially in the winter) my hands crack and bleed. I apply cream all the time and drink a lot of fluids. I have always suffered from this, atleast ever since I have had kids.  Wondering if anyone has tried the cococut oil on their hands?  As I type I have splits on my finger tips that are ouchy.   

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 629
    edited December 2011

    3littlegirls, have you had a dermatologist look at them?  My daughter had the same condition.  Her derm said it's dermatitis and gives her a prescriptive cream that really helps.  Her condition started with a moldy house.  They have alleviated the mold but her systems persist.

    Coconut oil is also antifungal so that might help too. 

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited December 2011

    I have tried argan oil for dryness and it worked (still works) for me. I don't use coconut oil where I can smell it because it makes me hungry. I do have it as part of my diet.

    On the tinnitus, I have added vitamin b6 and b12 to my daily protocol, partly as I was feeling some neuropathy in my knee now that winter is here. As it is on the same side as my tinnitic ear, which is on the same side as my lymph node dissection, I thought it might help there too. It seems to be making a difference. I am sleeping better, neuropathy is almost gone too.

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2011

    Heidi: you might be interested in this: a study result re our discussions on intermittent calory restriction:

    Science daily: Latest breast Cancer news:

    Intermittent, Low-Carbohydrate Diets More Successful Than Standard Dieting, Study Finds ScienceDaily (Dec. 8, 2011) - An intermittent, low-carbohydrate diet was superior to a standard, daily calorie-restricted diet for reducing weight and lowering blood levels of insulin, a cancer-promoting hormone, according to recent findings.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111208184651.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fhealth_medicine%2Fbreast_cancer+%28ScienceDaily%3A+Health+%26+Medicine+News+--+Breast+Cancer%29

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2011

    And re my pomegranate cravings?

    Pomegranate fruit extract impairs invasion and motility in human breast cancer:

    CONCLUSION: Inhibition of motility and invasion by PFEs, coincident with suppressed RhoC and RhoA protein expression, suggests a role for these defined extracts in lowering the metastatic potential of aggressive breast cancer speciesPubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19815594
  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2011

    VR has an active topic going on The San Antonio Conference. This was uploaded by someone:

    "Eating plenty of cereal, bread and potatoes may boost the risk of breast cancer recurring in survivors, say scientists.

    A study found that former sufferers who followed a starch-rich diet were more likely to develop tumours compared to those who reduced their intake.

    Researchers are unable to explain the trend but it is believed that increased insulin levels, sparked by refined carbohydrates, could stimulate the growth of cancerous cells."



    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2072000/White-bread-pasta-rich-diet-increases-risk-breast-cancer-returning.html#ixzz1g5YEkfT5 

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    I agree completely...starch converts to sugar and so if you eliminate as much starch (white flour and sugar) from your diet as possible, your chances of preventing a bc recurrance go up!  Right now we are doing gluten free which is even more restrictive.

    It's common sense really...if cancer feeds on sugar, then limiting the amount of sugar intake is going to prevent cancer from growing in the body.

    It's a committment, but I would rather do the diet than chemo and anti hormonals. 

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2011

    I think the fact that carbs and starch as opposed to fats, increase risk, was interesting. We have discussed this topic on this thread. In mice, with metastatic tumours, this diet slowed progression too.

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    thats-life:  Yes, we have discussed in detail, and now it's nice to know that there is some "scientific evidence" to support this theory...lol!  Hopefully this will help those who must have evidence based information in order to proceed.  As for me, and many others, we are well ahead of the curve on this diet thing.

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited December 2011

    Thanks, thast-life. I like the protocol in one of the studies above where you can just do two days of calorie restriction with only fruit, vegetables and lean meat and lose more weight than on a daily "normal" calorie-restricted diet.

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    Heidhill:  My boyfriend and I went on this diet two months ago.  We didn't really need to lose weight but he's lost 12 lbs and I've lost 10 lbs, and the best news of all is that we lost it around the middle where I was never able to lose before!  The fat just melted away!  I don't miss the bread pasta or desserts...much:(

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 1,393
    edited December 2011

    Great researching from everyone,  I haven't been on BCO for a while but saw the research was being published for the Symposium so I'm trying to catch up.  I'm thrilled about the 2 days carb restriction and after three months on the intermittent fasting, restricted calorie diet I'm now eating more often so could easily switch to the new routine.  I've lost about 15lbs but would like to get my tummy flatter. I did get very weak and shaky on the fasting diet so I'll see what works and not push too hard now I've got the worst of the flab off.

  • Hindsfeet
    Hindsfeet Member Posts: 2,456
    edited December 2011

    Joylieswithin, I am thrilled you stopped in to let us know how you are doing. We miss you. I'm glad you are doing well.

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2011

    So am I jlw :):)

    I have always been quite tiny 54kg to 56 kg, rarely fluctuate. But...my diet has been mostly carbs! and sugar for many years, till recently.  Im going on the 2 day break diet too. Since starting tamoxifen/diagnosis, i have piled on fat around the middle. Looks funny with my skinny legs. It concerns me, so have been trying to work out how to get rid of it without losing weight everywhere, as i dont have much to lose elsewhere. Will let you know the results. My diet has changed dramatically, but i am making those changes step by step...dont want to freak my body out too much. :)

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    I was concerned too when I started losing the weight because I didn't want to lose it in my arms and legs which are already thin enough.  Initially I went through a little detox which caused me to be tired and have a headache, but that went away quickly and I began to feel more energy and have a better feeling overall...not bloated or stuffed after I ate.

     Since we are on a gluten free diet, we have no pasta, bread, white rice, or anything else with flour or whole grains.  We have found substitute pasta made from artichoke or quinoa that tastes almost the same, and blue corn chips that are gluten free that we use with avocado dip.  We don't care for the gluten free breads, so that is out.

    My alkaline levels are now at the optimum ...7.5, and my fat around the middle is going away, so the diet is definitely working.  We do take breaks but only on special occasions like holiday dinners, or events where we can't choose what we eat, but we skip bread and dessert.  It helps if your partner does this with you...my boyfriend has MS and he is detoxing from heavy metals (getting ready to go through chelation therapy) so this diet is just as important for him.

    Now that I've been taken off all my bioidentical hormones because of my tumor receptor status, I am withdrawing from that!  Hot flashes, irritability, insomnia, etc, but I don't think it's as bad as it would have been if I had not been following this diet. 

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited December 2011

    I just lost my post so this will be a quick re-write.

    Congrats, jlw and kaara for the lost pounds! I lost 9 pounds in 3 years, so you're way ahead of me.Smile

    I am researching mitochondria as the latest studies show it is the Achilles Heel of cancer. I saw this article although am still far from understanding the terminology.

    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2407/11/191

    Title: Mitochondrial targeted catalase suppresses invasive breast cancer in mice

    Catalase is an antioxidant available from fruits and vegetables as well as oils such as coconut oil.

    http://www.ehow.com/info_8552996_vegetable-fruit-sources-catalase.html

    I think it's time to see where I can get wheat or barley grass.

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited December 2011

    As scientists have just discovered that cancer cells have their own mitochondria Heidi, it might be a while before information filters down to us, but i will look forward to what you find!.. As we discussed the other day, joylieswithin's glycosis interest seems to be what is happening around the cancer cells...kind of like planting a crop of food nearby, from which the cancer cells' harvest convenient energy. so there are two different processes occuring, one inside the cell, and in the immediate surroundings. (re the links posted in last posts) Joy, I hope you help us unravel this new finding too...:)

    As I look back over the year we have had here, I feel really positive about all we have discussed. Im hoping that tamoxifen is starving my cancer cells of one food source, estrogen, and that our dietary changes are making it hard on those cancer cells to harvest a glucose bounty. I cant feel the second breast lump at all now...so there are still some changes going on inside my body that are positive, even in the last month.  I know we never never know with this disease, but I am happier for the trying.

    I want to wish a merry Christmas (if you celebrate Christmas :) /Holiday Season to all who have been a part of this thread, and to those who may just pop in for a look. Know that I will be thinking of you over (our) Summer holidays, and I wish for all of us a time of healing, memory making, and hope.

  • Kaara
    Kaara Member Posts: 3,647
    edited December 2011

    thats-life:  So happy to hear that things are positive for you.  Enjoy your summer!  Hope to get over to your part of the world some day.  It's on my bucket list!

  • 3littlegirls
    3littlegirls Member Posts: 853
    edited December 2011

    Thanks Impositive! I will give that a try. It's pretty painful on those days when they feel swollen where the cracks are.  I will ask my Dr to refer me.  

  • 3littlegirls
    3littlegirls Member Posts: 853
    edited December 2011

    So I have had a few ladies asking me where to find a Naturopathic Oncologist.  So I asked my ND for the website it's www.oncanp.org  Then just click on "Find an ND"  it lists them by state or province.  Hopefully that helps some of you guys on this side of the world. I am sure there must be one for other countries as well.

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