BCO is my support group.  I was offered that when I attended my breast clinic last week, but it is all the way across town in the evening, and I don't like to drive at night.  After I thought about it, I realized that I'm getting all the support I need and can give right here on this site. 

Am I missing anything by not attending one of these? 

Kaara and Vicki, my apologies the link did not work.  I always check but forgot to do so this time and of course Murphy's Law did the rest

"This phase II/III trial studies how well diindolylmethane (DIM) works and compares it to placebo in treating patients with breast cancer. DIM may slow the growth of tumor cells and be an effective treatment for breast cancer."

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/results?protocolsearchid=9875826 

Medici thanks for the info. I will really study this some more.

I am thinking of quiting the Tamoxifen, I've taken 4 pills now. My doctor thinks both my cancers were from taking prescription drugs years ago. My medial records show that Statins (for reducing Cholestrol) did cause my CLL.

The article I posted says Tamoxifen can cause a worse breast cancer then I have now, just what I want another cancer. .

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/anatomy_of_the_endocrine_system/page8_em.htm

Just an FYI:  The endocrine sytem is made up of glands that produce and secrete various hormones (e.g. the pancreas produces insulin).

The breast is a mammary gland and neither produces nor secretes hormones, although it is certainly influenced by certain hormones.

Sorry I can't make the above a hot link, but there are several websites describing the endocrine system which are easily googled. 

Kaara, are you referring specifically to the Activamune ? I have no doubt it would help with MS, but I noticed their formulation does contain soy, not good for either of us I am soooo far from CA...would like to get in touch with them to see whether they make a soy free version. I would be the first one to trust their supplements, sound awesome ! Maybe I missed it and it is possible to e.mail, although I for one have never gotten a response for this type of enquiry

hi scuttlers: medici addressed some of the reasons why you arent seeing more detailed alternative treatment discussions. I am very sad that so many informed women have left BCO. I could have used their help and enjoyed more discourse on my journey. Im sure you have seen women and men come here asking, sometimes desperately, for help when standard treatment has failed them, only to disappear again, when they find (publicly at least) they will not get assistance here. I asked myself today why I stay here to discuss Alternative options, and dont just go away too, to the many websites available. I think i stay because here I know I wont be influenced by retailers cashing in on my disease, and i like the balanced discussion and degree of logic that enforced caution demands. The saddest thing of all, is that when standard treatment fails us, we can be assured of caring support here, and encouragement to keep trying. If an Alternative treatment fails us, I think we can be assured of a few "i told you so's" and maybe even some jokes about it..... (which imo is also another reason why we dont hear from people after they have started an alternative treatment) The sharing of knowledge and/or personal experience, is a precious gift. The women and men who risk ridicule to share their experiences are doing so because they believe they may be able to help others. if they felt safe to share, good and bad, I think BCO would become an even more valuable resource to women and men in need, than it already is. And, the need to 'defend' treatment choices here, would not always have to override the actual treatment discussion, which is far more important.

Can't research right now, but understood quite well what A.A. was saying, eg. mammary glands (emphasis added) are part of the exocrine (emphasis added) glands family. And I'm willing to bet that breast milk contains quite a diversity of hormones. We are not talking semantics here. More info tomorrow

"...The mammary gland is not just a gland which delivers milk in response to certain stimuli, but that it also transmits humoral signals, i.e., the mammary gland is an endocrine gland.."

http://www.mendeley.com/research/mammary-gland-endocrine-gland/

III. ROUTES OF SECRETION

A.  Description of Routes

There are five major, known routes of secretion across the mammary secretory epithelium from the blood side to milk, four transcellular and one paracellular (116, 118) (Fig.2): 1) membrane route,2) Golgi route, 3) milk fat route, 4) transcytosis, and 5) paracellular route.

1) In the membrane route, substances may traverse the apical cell membrane (and for those directly derived from blood, the basolateral membrane). Examples are water, urea, glucose, Na⁺, K⁺, and Cl^-(116).

2) In the Golgi route, secretory products are transported to or sequestered by the Golgi apparatus and secreted into the milk space by exocytosis. Examples are casein, whey proteins, lactose, citrate, and calcium (116, 118, 267).

3) In the milk fat route, milk fat globules are extruded from the apex of the secretory cell surrounded by membrane (milk-fat-globule membrane); some cytoplasm is sometimes included (126). Examples are milk fat, lipid-soluble hormones and drugs, some unknown growth factors (in milk-fat-globule membrane) (244), and the product of the ob gene, leptin (214).

4) In transcytosis, vesicular transport involves various organelles, possibly, in some cases also involving extrusion byroute 2 (88, 154). Examples are immunoglobulins during colostrum formation (88), transferrin (154), and prolactin (154).

5) In the paracellular route, there is direct passage from interstitial fluid to milk.

In full lactation, routes 1, 2, 3,and, possibly, 4 predominate.

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/80/3/925.full

Vesicular transport is an active process in which materials move into or out of the cell
enclosed as vesicles. Vesicles are bubble-like structures surrounded by a membrane.
They can form at the cell membrane or can fuse with the membrane. Solid particles,
droplets of fluid or many molecules at a time can be moved across the membrane in
vesicles. Vesicular transport is also known as bulk transport because large quantities
of materials can be transported in this way.

There are two basic types of vesicular transport ENDOCYTOSIS and exocytosis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMAbcgYzyak

Wow - I am definitely very impressed by the ability to discuss and debate and get things defined here.

BTW....

My original intention was primarily to emphasize that we need complete analysis and input by professionals who are specifically trained in the glandular systems -- apocrine, exocrine, or endocrine -- because the breasts are glandular systems, and far less input from those who have been focused too narrowly on toxic treatments that end up blasting the parts of the glandular system without adequate analysis of them and their glandular processes.

I used the word "endocrine" because our medical providers have chosen to name the specialists in that field "endocrinologists", not "glandularologists" or "endoexocrinologists".

We are decades behind in dealing effectively with cancer because oncologists sped past the part of their medical training labeled "endocrinology" with too much haste and ignored what they could learn from it. Now, instead of glandular specialists who understand that the glandular effects are systemwide, we have specialists who treat the breasts without much consideration (if any) for our other "parts". My oncologist most certainly never, ever thought about seeing my vagina, or saw any logical reason to do so. And to this day I don't think he has a clue what a vagina is about.

A.A.

A.A., my endo really shuddered when I told him that my onc had put me on Tamox. He asked "Why not AIs !!!?????". He REALLY does not approve of the drug which can wreak havoc on the thyroid. Explained to him that I was not menopausal according to my onc but was very menopausal according to my gyn...who, I have no doubt, has seen a whole lot of vaginas in his lifetime Lol !



Have not yet found the Metformin info I wanted to relay but when you mentioned it, my first thought was: Why not cinnamon ? Will post studies where it was found that cinnamon beat Metformin in diabetics, when I can find it....One thing for sure before I would take any hypoglycimic supp as potent as cinnamon, I would want to know how I score on a 24-hour glucose test. I suspect I have had hypoglycemia for a looong time and for which I have been wanting to get tested, but have only received sneering retorts to my requests. Maybe my new endo has come a long way and will agree...I see him next week. One issue I have not had time to search is whether ER pos gals need to beware of sugar as much as the neg. gals. I detoxed from sugar a long time ago, but will go for carbs first anytime. I have to make a conscious effort to add protein to my meals

lindasa,

"Not sure that the average endocrinologist would be able to add a great deal to a tumour board discussion, without having delved deeply into the connection (if there is one) with breast cancer.  Perhaps a sub-specialty in the field would be a good idea."

I strongly agree (after having been seen by an endocrinologist). Even with having carefully had a referral from my PCP to a dietitian for several years, followed by a referral from my PCP with the dietitian's notes in hand to the endocrinologist, I was blocked from seeing the endocrinologist because one after another they refused to see me unless I had "a known or likely thyroid (or similar) diagnosis". And I'm not talking about trying to get into one in some small area, I was calling for an appointment in SEATTLE. (The cancer industry there is huge.)  I'm  not blaming endocrinologists for that. They are more than fully booked just covering the diseases they now cover. But we absolutely need a body-wide systems analysis person with equal authority to that of the oncologist, on every one of our tumor boards, to keep the other specialties from separating us into isolated "parts" for attack.

Hi Bluedahlia,

A little healthy criticism is good for all of us. There is some truth in the notion that if one has nothing important to say, silence is appreciated and you are certainly more than welcome here as a lurker (or as a poster). Your perspective is important.

Limiting discussion solely to absolute knowledge is one option, although it is focused more toward historical practice and information and less toward the future, so is a bit limiting.

I haven't seen any discussion from you specifically limited to discussion of pure knowledge, or links to research reports, etc. It takes somebody to make those contributions.

I'll try again, with the reference to new info on the potential use of metformin (now in bc trials):

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20111202/Researchers-identify-cancer-cell-mitochondria-as-Achilles-heel-of-tumor-growth.aspx 

Nobody has all the trump cards either!

Evebarry,

I am so glad you saw the link because it is so encouraging, and that encouragement does count a lot. If it holds up against challenges, it would be a relief to have that option for everyone, since it interestingly appears to apply to both ER+ and ER-.

Medici,

I discontinued tamoxifen in 2004 because of the ASCO report in 2003 that for some HER2 positives, tamoxifen would increase their risk. I haven't stayed up to date about tamoxifen but the connection to thyroid is interesting, so thanks for that info. I have heard talk of cinnamon but haven't verified it, although I use it regularly on oatmeal. (I also use curcumin, as well as freshly ground flax seed.) With the exception of dark chocolate I haven't used sugar in over 5 years, and I use stevia for sweetening hot drinks. As for carbs, I discontinued potato products, corn products, and pasta products at the same time I discontinued sugar. My carbs are whole grain bread, oatmeal with a teaspoon of honey, a square of dark chocolate at night, and what I get from fresh fruits. I make thin crust vegetarian pizzas now and then. My diet is not exactly exciting anymore but the changes make it possible to at least not gain weight. My regret is not being able to grow things here in general, but I do benefit from access to great salmon!

A.A.

I had a thought on the way home from work today - If Alternative Treatments are better than chemo - why don't we know about it already, why hasn't this miracle cure been shared with the world? Why aren't they the standard treatment option?