Victims of the Canadian Healthcare system

For what it is worth, if you are not receiving the care you believe you should you have to fire your doctor. You've done that Nanny so you have sent a strong message and taken charge of your health care. Your case is not isolated I'm sure but as you can see many of us do not share your experience so this isn't a widespread Canadian healthcare experience but isolated to particular doctors' practices.  If a doctor has treated you unfairly, broached protocol or ethics, you can contact the CMA - a friend of mine had a botched back operation and the CMA investigated and took that surgeon's license away.

When I was 20 my mother had advanced breast cancer and was in the hospital for yet another surgery that seemed very unrelated to her condition and cancer. She was very stressed over this surgery but could not bring herself to question the doctor so I tried to speak to him about this. He refused to discuss anything with me as I was "just the daughter and it was none of my business". I wasn't being pushy or rude but he was dismissive and nasty to me, turning his back and walking away. This was in the States, not Canada, but it taught me to never let a doctor treat you in such a way. I fired a GP that misdiagnosed my youngest when he had asthma. And I let him know he was wasn't qualified in my view to treat my family. I was calm and to the point and he was left to transfer our records to our new doctors. On the whole though, I have respect and admiration for a number of doctors that I have dealt with.

Not all doctors are created equal. And we get to decide who treats us.

I'm not Canadian, but the title of this thread seems a bit odd to me.  Here in the US, we don't really have consistent BC screening programs, especially for young women, either.  I was diagnosed at 39, before I ever had a "baseline" mammo, but I don't consider myself a victim of the US Healthcare system because of that.  My doctors recommended starting routine BC screening at age 40, but when I discovered a large lump, there was never any question or hesitation in sending me for a diagnostic mammo (and other subsequent imaging).  Is that the case in Canada too?

It really does suck that there just really isn't a great way to provide early detection, especially in younger women.   In an ideal world, it would be a perfect and simple process with no downside but as of now, it just doesn't exist - for reasons including technology limitations, cost/benefit ratios, human nature, etc. 

If anything, I guess I'd say I'm a victim of crappy BC luck.  With our US healthcare system so riddled with holes and problems, my family could have very conceivably lost our home and completely drained all our financial resources by now.  It really does happen far too frequently here.  I've been fortunate so far, but I can tell you that the potential for financial obliteration is no small concern on top of everything else BC dumps on us.  

Yeah, Barbe, I'm envious!  In general, from what I hear, it seems that you have excellent care in Canada - and similar to the excellent care we have available here.  I'm envious about your country's approach to providing that level of care. 

I'm disgusted, embarrassed, and personally concerned about our healthcare situation here in the US and just can't, for the life of me, understand why there is so much resistance to change.  It seems so simple and so basic.  LOL, I guess that's why I'm not a politician!

I find that hard to believe.  If your doctor ordered a mammo, they can't refuse.

Nanna, would it be accurate to say you were a victim of incompetence of the person who refused to do the mammo?  If that's the case, I would think there would be some sort of complaint/appeal process in place, no?  Did you have the option to go to another provider for the ordered test?

Incompetence unfortunately happens everywhere.  I'm confused about why you blame the "Canadian Healthcare System."  

Dear nana, the car may come with a maintenance schedule but who reads directions anyway? As for a maintenance schedule for your body, now who is comparing car maintenance to health care?

I think you are a victim of your own inability to advocate for yourself, return to your doctor and tell him/her what happened!

NannaBaby,  I sympathize with you and feel that you have every right to be very angry.  You have run up against a number of bad medical practitioners who have failed you.  I have had breast issues since I was in my twenties as well (numerous cysts) and was lucky to be well-served by the system and got tests and examinations when needed.  I think the medical system is good, but that you have had bad luck in the individuals you have been dealing with. 

There are other young people on these boards whose symptoms were not taken seriously because they were "too young to have breast cancer".  You are not alone in that. 

 I am totally stunned that the mammo tech would refuse to do a mammogram when it was ordered by the doctor.   That sounds like malpractice.  I am so glad that you are lodging complaints.  Keep it up!! 

I have never heard of Winchester Hospital - is it a big one?  Doesn't sound good.

All the best to you!

Barbe, that's just awful.  I'm a little skeptical with regards to some of the info I've read on this thread.  I have never been denied any tests, US, mammos, blood tests, CT scans, etc., etc.

Nannababy -- Google herceptin treatment in Ontario and you will find that tumours under 1 cm are now funded (as of May 2011) through OHIP.  Previously, Cancer Care Ontario was basing its funding for herceptin tx on well-established studies, which is how "they do things there", by the way.

I'm sorry that there are still some docs who refuse to upgrade their medical education by saying "You're too young to have cancer".  It's highly unlikely that they refuse further testing because of $$.  You were most unfortunate to encounter docs who obviously graduated in the bottom of their class at med school and were too lazy, or too busy, to read up on the latest literature.  But your description of your breast presentation (especially the inverted nipple) is a classic BC symptom and for 3 docs to ignore it is difficult to comprehend.

I had my first lump at age 20 and was able to see 3 docs (the university in-house physician, my gp, and a breast specialist) all on the same day.  I was scared silly and none of them said "You're too young to have breast cancer".  It turned out the breast specialist was able to manipulate the lump over to the nipple and with some hard squeezing, was able to aspirate it.  It later developed into a fibroadenoma.  That's my experience at a young age, and I know others who have responded here have had similar experiences at a young age -- which is why, as I've said, it's so difficult to comprehend your own experience.

By the way, I know Barbe, and I'm VERY sure she didn't mean it literally! 

Nannababy: Since you also asked about screening policy for young women, I wonder if you are aware of the latest in Ontario: http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/breastcancer/about.aspx

Things are improving all the time.

I don't doubt that there are incompetent or insensitive doctors out there (everywhere, not just in Canada) and it sounds like you have run into more than your fair share of them... that is unfortunate, truly... but at the risk of repeating what others have said here many times, the SYSTEM is not the culprit. (Many of us have been extremely well-served in Canada - and thank god we don't have the fights with the insurance companies that our American sisters do.) Can you possibly accept that?

"I am not missing the point. You guys don't undertand the issues young people face. It's not just me. Check out the links I posted, and maybe you'll understand more. Young people are often dismissed as being hyperchondriacs or mentally imbalanced."

What you say about the issues that young people face is absolutely true.

And I agree with you that often young people are dismissed as being hypocondriacs or worse.  

But you are missing the point.  The point is that this dismissal of the concerns of young people, and particularly, the dismissal of the concerns of young women as it relates to breast cancer, has nothing to do with the Canadian Healthcare system.  It happens in the U.S. too, and it probably happens in many, if not most, other countries. Lots of doctors have blinders on when it comes to the possibility of a young woman having breast cancer.  There's nothing uniquely Canadian about that.

The good news is that not all doctors are that way.  I mentioned in an earlier post that I had my first lump when I was 16.  That was taken seriously, as was every other breast issue that I've had over the years (and I've had lots). The hardest time I had getting in to see a doctor about a breast problem was when I lived in the U.S.. I actually flew back to Canada to see a breast surgeon here because it was easier to get an appointment. From what other women on this thread have written, it appears that quite a few of us had breast problems at a young age and most of us had no problem being taken seriously and getting treated.

So I'm not disagreeing that there is sometimes a problem - there absolutely is - but I am saying, and many others are saying - that you are placing the blame in the wrong place.  It's not the Canadian Healthcare System that's the problem.  The problem is the fact that too many doctors don't seem to understand that breast cancer can strike at any age - there is no such thing as a woman being "too young to have breast cancer".  

In any earlier post you said "The general public have to advocate and regulate their healthcare themselves. Although we all pay for universal insurance. We all deserve standardized, regulated healthcare! Not just some people! "  Yes it would be nice if all our doctors always did the right thing and were pro-active on our behalf. Everyone deserves good care and there should be minimum standards that all doctors must abide by. But honestly, I don't think that standardized regulated healthcare is what we want because that could lead to exactly the type of problems that you are talking about.  The current debate, all around the world, is the age at which women should start getting mammos.  40?  50?  Should they be annual or every two years? Setting guidelines is a good idea - and the Canadian healthcare system does set guidelines (as does the insurance industry in the U.S.). But what's critical is that individual doctors be allowed to deviate from those guidelines based on the needs of their patient and based on their best judgement. I've had mammos since my 30s because I had doctors who were able to assess my situation and make decisions based on my needs, not based on standardized regulations. I get annual MRIs because my radiologist and breast surgeon say that I should - even though I may fall outside of the standarized regulations.  Treatment guidelines and consistent minimum standards - good. Standardized regulations - not so good.

By the way I find that your statement "We all deserve standardized, regulated healthcare! Not just some people! " sounds really familiar.  Isn't that the big cry in the U.S. among those who support last year's healthcare regulation and who continue to push for a single-payer system? The Canadian system is far from ideal and nowhere near perfect, but from what I've seen, we are closer to your statement than our neighbors to the south.