Deciding on treatment / need for

Options

I am new.  Diagnosis 10/14/11:  ER + / PR + / HER2 - 1.2 cm - 1.7 cm  DCIS/IDC one tumor, mid depth.

I am scheduled for BMX / TE / SNB on 11/28/11.

General Surgeon has said chemo and radiation are not likely but will be determined after surgical pathology confirms the above diagnosis, measuring the true size of the tumor, and sentinal node involvement.  

So, what do I hope to hear when I wake up from surgery?

I am trying to determine when chemo and/or rads are recommended.

If the sentinal node has involvement, they will go to remove all nodes for testing.  This I know. 

OncoDX needs to be low, like well under 20, under 10 is best.  This I know.

But, what is the determination for chemo based on?

Node involvement? OncoDx? Combination?

If the removal of the tumor has clean margins, and is not close into the chest wall, no rads.  This I know. (At least that is my understanding)

I am obsessed with this part of the treatment. I digested my diagnosis, planned my surgery, ready to move on.  But, what do I want to hear when I wake up from surgery, and when I get those pathology reports?  I want to hear that I can move forward.

Oh, I also know I will be on hormone (anti-hormone) meds for 5 years. This I know.

I have researched until my fingers are tired.  I need some input, please.

I am a head on kind of person.  I research, read, discuss and make decisions.  I put my plan into place and then I can handle it.  So, I am ready for my surgery(ies).  I am ready for 5 yrs of meds.  I am ready to start to get to know what is next.

So, help me out.   What is the main determining factor for chemo and rads?

Comments

  • coraleliz
    coraleliz Member Posts: 1,523
    edited November 2011

    You will probably be given a choice ,if your final pathology doesn't change, to do chemo or not. You'll be given percentages for reoccurence & then be left to make your own decision. Some women really hate this. But for me, I would have doubted the MO if he told me I needed chemo or if he didn't. RADs was the same for me. Good luck with your upcoming surgery!

  • TwoHobbies
    TwoHobbies Member Posts: 2,118
    edited November 2011

    Oncotype DX has a good website if you like to read and explore.  They will likely run the oncotype DX and if you have no node involvement, a low oncotype would mean chemo provides little benefit.  If you do have node involvement, they're more likely to recommend chemo.  There has been a small study of women with node involvement and the oncotype, but its quite small.

    If you're having a BMX, its unlikely yes its unlikely you'll have rads. 

    I think I had the results of the SNB a day or two later and the oncotype score I believe took a couple of weeks.   

  • jwilco
    jwilco Member Posts: 486
    edited November 2011

    Hi.  I'm in the same place only I've already had my surgery.  Be sure to check that they perform all the tests you expect.  For me the Oncotype wasn't done until I asked.  If I had known then I wouldn't be here waiting another week or so for that number to help make my decision.  My oncologyst did just what coraleliz stated above.  Gave me percentages of recurrance and didn't really say yes or no to chemo.  For me the difference in recurrance was only better by 3% if I did chemo.  So, unless that Onco score is high I'm not doing it.  Tamoxefin is a given.  The waiting sucks.  The decisions suck.  But knowledge is power and is sounds like you have been doing your homework.  I feel for you having to deal with this.  I hope you find the answers you need to make your decision.

  • mdg
    mdg Member Posts: 3,571
    edited November 2011

    It can depend on several things.  The grade of your tumor is important  - what is your grade?  After my pathology came back it indicated angiolymphatic invasion and I was upgraded from grade 1 to grade 2.  I was not prepared for that and it was very upsetting.  Agonizing over chemo was the worst.  I had an oncotype of 17.  I got two opinions - 1 said no chemo and the other one recommended chemo.  The choice was put in my hands.  I chose the chemo because I am 45 with a  year old son.  I am a lot like you...a planner.  I need to know everything so I read a lot too.  Just remember that you don't have much control over some things - which was hard for me.  Hugs!

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited November 2011

    Check out online the NCCN 2011 Breast Cancer treatment guidelines.

    Good luck.

  • Blessings2011
    Blessings2011 Member Posts: 4,276
    edited November 2011

    What an excellent thread this is!

    I've been wondering about these same things myself...

  • WaveWhisperer
    WaveWhisperer Member Posts: 898
    edited November 2011

    SheChriple, I was diagnosed the very same day you were, with somewhat similar biomarkers: tumor 1.1 cm, ER+, PR+ and HER2-. I chose a lumpectomy, which was done 2 weeks ago yesterday. Like some others, I'm mad that no one told me about the OncotypeDX testing until I met with my MO for the first time last Tuesday. In fact, I learned about it on this forum. Now I have to wait 2 more weeks for that information. Since my tumor was a grade 3 and I had micromets in one lymph node, I imagine they'll recommend chemo for me, unless the Oncotype score is very, very low.

    Like you, I'm a planner. I want a treatment plan NOW. I want to start treatment NOW. I want to get rid of this cancer ONCE AND FOR ALL. One thing I'm learning is that, ultimately, all the choices are ours. We and the doctors have lots of information, and they can make recommendations based on that data. But we're the ones who really decide how we're going to deal with this.  

  • SpecialK
    SpecialK Member Posts: 16,486
    edited November 2011

    For those who had to wait for the Oncotype and are impatient and wanting to start chemo if needed please keep in mind that you need sufficient healing time from surgery prior to starting chemo.  It is normal to have a period of delay between the two.  Waiting for the Oncotype results isn't slowing you down because once you begin chemo, if needed, you will not heal anymore. 

  • cycle-path
    cycle-path Member Posts: 1,502
    edited November 2011

    "If the sentinal node has involvement, they will go to remove all nodes for testing."

    SheChirple, please do some reading about this. The more nodes are removed, the greater the chance of lymphadema. There's significant evidence that removal of all nodes is no longer indicated, regardless of how many have been invaded, but that old-school doctors continue to do it because it's just "what they learned in medical school" a jillion years ago. 

    Please see the following: 

    http://www.internalmedicinenews.com/news/oncology-hematology/single-article/axillary-lymph-node-dissection-doesn-t-improve-breast-cancer-survival/0b39f2b224.html 

    http://bioblog.biotunes.org/bioblog/2011/03/03/axillary-lymph-node-dissection-will-hopefully-soon-be-a-thing-of-the-past/ 

    http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/305/6/569 

  • Miles2Go
    Miles2Go Member Posts: 120
    edited November 2011

    I've borrowed "You're not on the Titantic!" line

    many times since reading it.  Thank you!  CMG

  • Miles2Go
    Miles2Go Member Posts: 120
    edited November 2011

    The main determining factors... are ALL ABOUT YOU ~  your age, your lifestyle, your practical considerations, possibly your health insurance coverage (or lack thereof), your pathology results, employment/income requirements, and anything else signficiantly impacting your day-to-day your life.  While your doctors, family, clergy, friends, and other good-hearted people are worth listening to provided your trust them, choices are your responsibility.  

    A roller coaster of information & choices?  Absolutely!  Bottom line is this is your life.  My arms are around you with a hug.  Tuck the love of many people under your pillow each night.  CMG

  • Miles2Go
    Miles2Go Member Posts: 120
    edited November 2011

    We are living with some similarities, although my diagnosis is Stage 1b (due to 1.1mm micrometastases in a single lymph node of the two removed. 

    How old are you?  At 72 and in otherwise good health I am choosing surgery only.  It appears from a world of research my survival rate is only 9-11% different should I do nothing than should I incorporate everything "Western Medicine" has to throw at me to see what sticks (translation, what my body can sustain and survive). 

    I skipped radiation 15 years ago for DCIS, which at that time was contraversial.  Now I am told radiation for DCIS is no longer recommended.  I made the decision based purely on my gut instinct (I've been living with a very sensitive body from day one).  People who strongly questioned my treatment choice 15 years ago are now supporting my similar choice to avoid additional treatment for IDC.

    We are all "resident experts" on our bodies and our lives.

    If you have any specific questions I can answer I will.  You've taken the first healthy step, asking your questions.  Listen to your wisdom, take a leap of faith, and don't look back.  Hugs, Coloardo Morning Glory

  • cycle-path
    cycle-path Member Posts: 1,502
    edited November 2011

    Miles2Go -- I think I stole that line from someone else! My son recently told me that psychology professionals also use the term CTD -- "Circling the Drain." (Tongue in cheek, I hope!)

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