Yoga and LE

What you're describing is breast/truncal lymphedema, and while it can improve with time, it deserves evaluation and treatment.

Yes, downward dog is an issue as you bear your body weight on your arms. So is cobra. So are push ups. 

Any issue with swelling is lymphedema, and should be evaluated and treated. Here are links to truncal lymphedema and how to find a therapist.

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/breast_chest_trunckal_lymphedema.htm

http://www.stepup-speakout.org/Finding_a_Qualified_Lymphedema_Therapist.htm

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but swelling is lymphedema, and the earlier it's treated, the better the results.

For the swelling in your back near the arm pit--look at the pictures on the breast/truncal page and the associated article. You'll see pictures of that exact swelling.

Kira

I cannot do any yoga poses that put weight on my LE arm.  It's not that I weigh very much...I'm a normal size (which is code for I need to lose 15 lbs), but I just always wind up flaring once I do downward dog.  I mean, EVERY time. 

I finally just gave up on yoga because I got tired of being the special needs case in the class.  My good friend was the instructor and she really wanted to help me, but I kind of felt embarrassed.

So I quit yoga.  That's a really sad story, isn't it? 

I started yoga.  I'm high risk for LE (21 nodes GONE!), but I haven't developed it yet.  I always have some sort of tingling or heaviness of my arm; the degree varies. But no swelling.  I do the self massage, taught by my LE therapist.  I'm up on the position papers regarding exercise, but it's vague!  What I'm wondering is if I should be wearing my sleeve during yoga or just staying aware of how my arm feels, and avoid positions accordingly.  I almost never wear my sleeve, but I have it.

I did notice one woman in my class who wore a sleeve, but no guantlet/glove!   

Cider, no one knows if you should wear a sleeve/gauntlet/glove during exercise if you don't have LE--it's not clear that it will prevent it.

I think you should be aware of the symptoms--which do often suggest stage zero--latent LE--some fluid accumulation but no swelling and try the exercise with and without the sleeve and see if it changes how your arm feels.

I'll ask Binney for her opinion.

Kira

LE is one of the BC "gifts" that really gets me steamed.  I had cording, and though I've not manifested it (and pray I don't or only get a mild case), I sometimes feel like all the planning and worry is nearly as bad as having it.  I go back and forth on the weightlifting, which I do at 60 - 70% of my capacity.  I got osteoporosis from chemo/chemopause and the weightlifting is very important.  I am freaked out by yoga--what is clear to me is that no one really knows one way or the other about precisely what to do.

I do recommend the Yoga for Breast Cancer from Surviving to Thriving.  It is an amazing DVD.  She does dolphin instead of downward dog.  For me, even though it does bear weight, it's a good "compromise".  It's been written about here, if you look around.

Also, I recently got a rebounder.  It is supposed to be wonderful for the lymph system.  I do it once a week, yoga once a week, and then weight lifting three times a week.  Okay, let's be honest.  The aforementioned is a "perfect" week.  I have those, uh...every few weeks.

Hey there, Kira, I actually contacted the maker directly after reading about it online here!

Hi Kira,

Do you have any reason to suspect it's a bad idea to wear a sleeve while exercising, or it's just that we don't know if it has any impact to help prevent swelling after exercise and/or weight lifting and/or yoga?

I've never tried yoga, but I'm tempted now, because there's an adapted yoga for senior citizens available near me.  At 57 I don't feel in the least 'senior' but I am thinking that adapting for my LE reasons won't stick out like a sore thumb, because probably there will be lots of adapting going on!

Carol

Kira, 'well trained but humorless' has such a ring to it!

I'll also add, there is a whole new school of yoga therapy specificallly for yoga injuries.  My dear friend who grew up in India chuckles at the spa-style yoga most of us do. She told me the yogics she knew in India were massaged before they did their routines.  They also have different poses for different stages of life.  I'll never forget the day I walked into a yoga class that was very mixed, and the teacher was trying to get everyone to do scorpion.  That is an advanced level pose, for people who do daily yoga and really know what they are doing.  Her style had slipped disc written all over it.

Long before BC, I went to some hot yoga classes (a complete no-no for BC survivors).  Even then, I knew there was something seriously amiss in what seemed like a yoga marathon.  Come to find out, the certification process is far shorter than other schools of yoga.

Great news, everyone!  I just did Rodney Yee's Power Yoga DVD, I did the one for athletes.  There are only two downward dogs in the entire hour-long program!  This is huge, most DVDs even by wonderful teachers like Cindy Lee are full of poses we can't do.

Wanted to share, it is absolutely a doable alternative for those worried about LE!  

I waited three months after my second surgery to restart yoga, since my PS said to avoid all upper body weightbearing exercises for that length of time. Though I noticed that the entire time beforehand, I had some swelling behind my shoulderblade on my UMX side. So just to be same and rule out truncal LE, I went to an LE therapist the week before last (about a month into practicing yoga again). She said I definitely did NOT have LE... the clinical diagnosis was BACK FAT. Ha! 

So while this is very good news (in spite of being told I was flabby, heh), there are still poses I modify during my practice, if not flat-out avoid. Side plank is one of them. I also make it a point of taking lots of rest breaks in child's pose, in spite of what the teacher might be instructing, if I feel I need them. The style of yoga I practice is Anusara, and if anything, it's a therapeutic style, so I feel confident in the teachers' abilities to not only know how to help me modify (I'm a teacher as well), but also to understand my need to modify and rest more. Some teachers (instructors, rather) will try to coax you to do more, and might consider yoga class to be primarily about exercise and sweat. Not all yoga is the same, and we do know our bodies the best, I guess that's the point I'm trying to make.

Nordy and Orange, that's not easy!

"Just one more rep and I'll be way ahead of what I did yesterday."

"I can do this!"

"I'm sick of babying myself!"

"Surely it won't really hurt to go a little farther."

"I've done this for years, and I'm not stopping now!"

There's a lot going on when we try to listen to our bodies. Other voices --like our identity, our self-esteem, our determination, our frustration with limitations -- have claims on us too. If we're not really attentive to what our bodies are trying to tell us, they get easily shouted down by all the rest of the chorus.

Any hints for stopping myself when everything else is screaming, "Go, go, go!"?

Thanks,
Binney

Very interesting point Kira. I stopped going to yoga classes for quite a while (pre DX) and took my practice inward, because I found I was being pulled this way and that by the teachers' instructions, primarily about how to feel and interpret the energetic reactions that I'd have from the poses my body would be practicing. I suppose it's because I'm too diligent and earnest a student, and my awareness for my body is more heightened than most. Sounds like it would make me a good yoga teacher, being so in touch, right? Quite the contrary... I sucked as a teacher because most people wouldn't understand the subtleties I was trying to describe, in spite of all the flowery language Anusara teachers are known for using... it is what it is, that's the best way to say it, I suppose.

So, to answer your question Binney: it takes time and patience to learn how to listen, as well as understand what your body is saying to you. Diligence in one's practice, along with consistency and a love for the experience of it all. Oh, and don't forget about letting go your expectations... oh yeah, piece of cake...

Kira - one thing I do when I start a new exercise class, resplendent in sleeve and gauntlet, is to wear some sort of cancer shirt for one of the first classes. I have some purple survivor shirts from the Relay for Life, and of course people have given me all kinds of "fight like a girl" and other pink ribbon shirts.  It is unusual for someone to wear a a sleeve and gauntlet, and it's quite normal for others to notice it and perhaps wonder.  The cancer shirt is pretty self-explanatory.  They might not know what LE is, but they can assume that the weird stuff I'm wearing on my arm has something to do with cancer.  I haven't had the situation of anyone being overly nosy, and have had some good experiences chatting with the occasional survivor who approaches me. But I'm also very open about my cancer and my LE, and enjoy educating people, so I'm comfortable if someone approaches and asks questions.  And if others in the class pity me, they pity me - so be it.  

It's kind of like when I was bald from chemo - I didn't wear a wig, but instead lived in baseball caps.  It is unusual to see a bald woman, and I can't blame people for doing double-takes - it's a natural instinct.  I tended to wear pink ribbon caps when I was out - it just gave people a silent explanation and let both of us go about our business.  

That Tai Chi instructor you had is another story - pity from other participants is easy to ignore, but not from the instructor.  His attitude would be off putting to anyone.  I've been fortunate with my instructors - I've always approached them ahead of time and given a brief explanation of why I might not do a particular pose or part of the exercise, and ask for alternatives.  Most have been fine with it (although I did have one bad experience with a young yoga teacher who gave me an annoyed look every time I did one of my alternate moves - I withdrew after that first class as I knew it wasn't going to be a good experience.)   

Binney - funny you ask for hints about slowing yourself down - you were the best teacher for me about learning to slow down.  I had just been dx with LE when we had terrible snows in DC.  My dh had just had a rib removed (thoracic outlet syndrome) and couldn't shovel, so I had to do it all - over 5 feet of snowfall that winter.  I can remember you writing in big letters to STOP whenever we shovelers started feeling heaviness or other symptoms - don't just finish that section of the driveway, don't just do one more shovelful, etc.   It was good advice then and it's good advice now.  You should listen to that Binney woman on BCO - she makes a lot of sense! 

Kira - I wish you lived near me - I would help you find something that you love to do.

Okay, definitely agree also with the "other" side of my brain telling me "just one more", "stop being a baby"... etc. I don't know - maybe because I also taught yoga - but to cancer survivors for Y when we lived in TX - they had a grant from Komen that let all cancer survivors take it for free. I am not specifically a "yogi" - I don't have a 300+ hour certification in yoga. What I did have was a degree in PT and 13+ years of patient care - modifying exercises for all different populations. Oh, and an AFAA cert to teach group ex. I loved teaching my cancer survivors and being able to modify accordingly. The funny thing is that the Y totally had a yoga instructor with 400+ hours of certification training... but they did not want her teaching the cancer survivors because she refused to modify anything for them. So yes, I understand that part of it too. Maybe because of my background and because I really don't give a... um... crap, what people think - or what the instructors say - I modify accordingly and ignore them if they tell me to do something that I know is detrimental for my lymphedema... or any other part of my body! Sometimes I am the only one in child's pose... stretching my axilla while everyone else is doing a series of sun salutations. Whatever... I don't worry about it anymore. Yoga is not a competition - although I am sure there are a few people out there that think different!