Positive margin, is there same situtation or any suggestions?

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Jane2011
Jane2011 Member Posts: 4

I did partial mastectomy on Aug. 23 and got to see my surgeon for pathology results on Sep. 16. In fact, the dates on the pathology report is Sep. 1th. This is a long time for waiting the results but it sounds resonable from the clinic. My results shows that its DCIS but with positive margin, that means I have to do the part or total mastectomy again, I choose the total mastectomy because I am 38 with high recurrence, but have to wait more than 2 month to get next operation if mastectomy and reconstruction work together. I feel so bad now, I worried about if the metastasis will happen because the positve margin and the long waitting time. Is there same situtation here? or any suggestions? is it deserve to wait to do the reconstruction which may need more waiting time? Thanks a lot. I am in Vancover, Canada. It seemed people always waitting for doctors.

My diagnosis is now: DCIS, high-grade, at least 2cm because the positive margin, ER-, no PR and HER2 results.

Jane

Comments

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited September 2011

    Jane, my situation was somewhat similar to yours.  I had a very large excisional biopsy (which is the same surgery as a lumpectomy and a partial mastectomy) because I had suspicious calcifications in two areas of my breast.  The pathology showed that both areas had high grade DCIS with comedonecrosis, and I had a microinvasion of invasive cancer. None of the margins - none on any side of either of the areas of cancer - were clear.  So there was no question that I had more DCIS in my breast, and my surgeon recommended a mastectomy.  I wasn't sure about that, and I also knew that if I had a mastectomy, I wanted immediate reconstruction, and that wasn't possible with my first surgeon.  So I went for a second opinion. The second surgeon confirmed that a mastectomy made the most sense, given all the dirty margins.  He also sent me for an MRI, which confirmed that my breast was full of "stuff", which he couldn't say for sure was all DCIS, but which we suspected was.   Between going for the second opinion, getting the MRI, having another biopsy on my other breast (benign, thankfully), consulting with a plastic surgeon and then waiting until there was a date when my breast surgeon and the plastic surgeon were both available to operate together, it took 2 1/2 months.  With an microinvasion already having been found, I knew that my DCIS was not just extensive and high grade, I knew that it was right on the verge of converting to become IDC.  So I was worried.  But my surgeon wasn't.  He was not concerned about the delay at all.  And in the end, he was right.  My mastectomy uncovered a lot more DCIS, but no more microinvasions, and the sentinel node biopsy on my lymph nodes came back clear.  There was no change in my diagnosis.   

    With DCIS, waiting a couple of months usually is not a problem.  DCIS is not invasive, and therefore it cannot metastasize.  DCIS cancer cells can evolve to become invasive cancer but current scientific knowledge suggests that DCIS cells must undergo a molecular change that gives the cells the ability to break through the milk duct, survive in open breast tissue, and spread beyond the breast - and that's the point at which the cancer becomes invasive cancer and is no longer DCIS.  Most breast cancer takes years to develop, and for those who start with DCIS, it usually takes years for the DCIS to evolve to become IDC. Therefore it's extremely unlikely that anything is going to change within a couple of months.

    It's normal to worry.  I remember being so worried too.  But I kept reminding myself that most experts say that a couple of month wait with DCIS is no problem, and in fact because I'd already had the excisional biopsy, my situation was better than most.  Having had the first surgery, it meant that most of my DCIS - and probably my most aggressive DCIS (which I figured was most likely to have shown up on my mammo) - was already removed. Since you've had the lumpectomy, your situation is the same.  Although you had a dirty margin, it doesn't mean that there is a lot of DCIS - or even any - left in your breast on the other side of that margin.  Your surgeon removed the most obvious area of DCIS based on what was seen on your diagnostic films; the dirty margins suggests that there might be some DCIS left, but maybe there isn't much at all.  Keep reminding yourself of that, and don't worry about waiting 2 months to get the immediate reconstruction that you want.  

    Hope that helps! 

  • Jane2011
    Jane2011 Member Posts: 4
    edited September 2011

    Beesie, thank you so much for your reply. Your information about yourself and DCIS are very very helpful. Today, I know I will have a appointment with the plastic surgeon this saturday. I will talk with her and try to know when will be possible for the operation, and then I will decide if I will do the mastectomy and reconstruction at the same time. I hope I can do it.

    Thanks a lot again.

    Jane

  • ma111
    ma111 Member Posts: 1,376
    edited September 2011

    That's a long time to wait! You should have been having your surgery when you saw your doctor getting the path report.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited September 2011

    ma111, from the experiences I've read on this board, 2 months is not actually a long time to wait, particularly for a pre-invasive cancer like DCIS.  And particularly when we are talking about the 2nd surgery, when most of the cancerous tissue has already been removed and the objective is just to get clear margins.  This type of a wait is pretty normal.  The situation would be different, however, for someone who has a very aggressive invasive cancer and nodal involvement. In that case, most surgeons would probably schedule the operation as quickly as possible.  I recall that my surgeon had open surgical slots available for more urgent cases but with my diagnosis (which was similar to Jane's), there was no need to use one of those slots.

    Jane, here is a link to an older discussion thread in the DCIS forum that talks specifically about wait times.  You can see that the sort of wait time you may be facing isn't that unusual at all.     http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/68/topic/758806    


    And just as an FYI, you might be interested to know that about 20% - 30% of women have close margins after their first surgery and require a second operation. This is very common. 

    Good luck with your appointment with the PS on Saturday. Let us know how it goes. 

  • cycle-path
    cycle-path Member Posts: 1,502
    edited September 2011

    Beesie, I think ma111 may have been saying that she thought it was a long time to wait before receiving the pathology reports.

  • Jane2011
    Jane2011 Member Posts: 4
    edited September 2011

    Beesie, my feeling is ok at day but always wake up around 2:00 am and can not back to sleep for a while. can't help to think about the decision. It is really bad feeling for the waiting. I am just thinking maybe I should not wait the reconstruction, and to get a earlier mastectomy. I am a little bit scared for reconstruction now, maybe because it is 3:00am now and I can not sleep. Do you mind if I ask your feeling about your reconstrucion?

  • JenC
    JenC Member Posts: 382
    edited September 2011

    Jane - That does seem like a long time to wait for the mastectomy.  I had my lumpectomy in March of 2010 and had positive margins and one positive node and had the mastectomy in April of 2010.  About 1 month after the first surgery.  I would talk with your doc and see why they want you to wait so long.  I also had immediate implant with the mastectomy.  Good luck and we are all here for you.

    Jen

  • BlairK
    BlairK Member Posts: 399
    edited September 2011

    Dear Jane2011 - I have my own thread on behalf of my wife called "DCIS Diagnosis Received - Doctors Visits - Comments Invited".  My wife has received her diagnosis of DCIS with suspicion of microinvasion - Grade 2 - some comedo-type necrosis, ER positive, etc.  We have met the BC Surgeon which we like.  My wife is thinking about lumpectomy and radiation versus mastectomy and immediate reconstruction and has pretty much made up her mind to do mastectomy plus immediate reconstruction.  We met one reconstruction surgeon and my wife went to a second surgeon reconstruction surgeon which she likes better.  The selected option will probably be "the gummy implant".  My wife likes that option the best.  It is widely used in Canada and Beesie sent me some information on it (I will let Beesie talk about her own personal situation).  Beesie has become a legend on the bulletin board and I certainly have appreciated all her posts.  The gummy implant is not widely used in the US and still has not received FDA (Food and Drug Administration) approval.  It is monitored by the FDA and the FDA monitors and audits all breast reconstruction surgeons who are trained to perform this procedure - there are not so many of them in the US.  Next week, my wife will schedule the surgery so I will let you know how long from next week it will take. 

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited September 2011

    cycle-path, yes, maybe that's what ma11 meant.

    I will make just one more comment on this, however.  We need to be careful to not compare treatment and timelines for those with DCIS to those who have more aggressive invasive cancers and nodal involvement.  It's not the same at all.  

    Jane, your middle of the night nervousness is completely normal!  My advice is to talk to your doctors, explain your concerns, listen to their recommendations and make the decision that's right for you.  Don't let yourself make a decision that's driven by fear because the fear is not rational and in the end, the fear will go away but you will have to live with whatever decision you make.  So make the decision that reflects what you really want to do, based on the recommendations of your doctors.  

  • cinnamonsmiles
    cinnamonsmiles Member Posts: 779
    edited September 2011

    Dear Jane, here is the timeline I had. I hope it gives  you some comfort. Saw a family dr. in October 2010. I had my mammogram and biopsy (not surgical) in early November 2010. Had my lumpectomy with dirty margins at the end of November 2010. I finally had my double mastectomy in January of 2011. The DCIS had not really grown or broke out of the milk ducts.

  • Jane2011
    Jane2011 Member Posts: 4
    edited September 2011

    Thank  you so much for all your post. I feel a little bit better now. The time is still not known because I have to make a decision first. I met my PS this weekend, and she has two type I can choose: Tram or tissure expender. Tomorrow I have to talk with my PS. I am 38, I have a gril 2.5 year old. My surgeon said if I want have one more baby, I can not do TRAM. I do not know if I can pregnant again because the BS, and even if I can after 5 years to make sure the BS is ok, is it too old to have a baby.        One more thing is that my PS does not do DIEP which I prefer now after I read thread here. My surgeon said she can refer me to another PS who can do DIEP. I read her website, she is young, I am not sure if she has more experience on DIEP. It seemed she is the only surgeon who can do the DIEP.  Still struggling.....

    I appreciate all your kind help.

    Jane

  • mom3band1g
    mom3band1g Member Posts: 817
    edited September 2011

    The only thing I will add is that I chose TE  and implants because I wanted to heal as quickly as possible.  I have 4 young kids and needed to be physically better ASAP!  With a little one like you have you might want to consider recovery time in your choice.  IF you have enough breast tissue you might also want to consider going for an re-excision.  I was 39 at the time of my mast and in very good health and it kicked my butt!  good luck.

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