Ki-67 Significance - pre surgery

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TexasRose2127
TexasRose2127 Member Posts: 128
Ki-67 Significance - pre surgery

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  • TexasRose2127
    TexasRose2127 Member Posts: 128
    edited September 2011

    Hi y'all-  I was diagnosed with IDC on 8/17/11, have had every test known to man, and am scheduled for surgery on OCT 14, 2011.  The core biopsy indicates Stage II Estrogen & progesterone positive HER-2 negative & Ki-67 score of 30%, no obvious lmph node invovement.

    I have been able to understand all of the presurgery markers, but am really concerned with the K1-67 30% marker for cell proliferation.  I read that anything over 20% is considered high.  I am freaking out. 

    Is there anyone else out there with 'high' Ki-67 score?  Or anyone that can help me with my rational/irrational fear of Ki-67 30%? 

     I know that the above results are preliminary with the 'real deal' determined by tissue removed during surgery. The waiting is driving me crazy! 

  • jdeking
    jdeking Member Posts: 408
    edited September 2011

    My Ki-67 was 61% and so far no problems 2 yrs 9 months out from dx. It worried me also when I googled the studies, but I think that the medical community has decided that it is not a significant marker for progession.

     Good luck with the waiting and your surgery. I know this is the hardest part. Once you get past the start of "active" treatment you can feel like you're doing something and the worries ease somewhat.

    Hugs!

  • TexasRose2127
    TexasRose2127 Member Posts: 128
    edited September 2011

    Thanks for the info!  As always I am most likely overreacting.  My surgeon somehow determined that the lump is slow growing which contradicted the Ki-67 score.  You may be right on that it may not be a significant marker for progression

    Feeling better already

    Blessings & Hugs!

  • Lindissima
    Lindissima Member Posts: 239
    edited September 2011

    Hi TexasRose,

    I asked my oncologist about my Ki-67 score since there was none listed on my post surgery path report.

    He said it is not considered significant for progression.  He is at a major teaching/research hospital so he should be  up on the latest research.

    Having said that, I don't really know what the significance of ki-67 is.

    Have you had an oncotype test?

    Take good care! 

  • DebRox
    DebRox Member Posts: 437
    edited September 2011

    My MO indicated that while the Ki-67 is a prognostic indicator, it isnt a significant one.  He viewed it as a poor mans oncotype test. 

    My ki-67 score was 50% which is high.  My oncotype score was 21 which is low/intermediate or a grey area in terms of chemo benefitting me.  Both my MO and I thought my oncotype would be higher based on ki-67.  So who really knows what the significance is.

  • weesa
    weesa Member Posts: 707
    edited September 2011

    My ki-67 was 70%. My mitotic rate was only a 1. I think Ki is some kind of indicator of what percentage of cells are in the process of dividing. How I could have had a mitotic rate of 1 and such a high Ki is a mystery to me. It is the only thing about my cancer I could never figure out. But I have done pretty well for a long time, so take heart, all you guys with high Ki's.

  • coraleliz
    coraleliz Member Posts: 1,523
    edited September 2011

    I find no mention of Ki-67 in any of my pathology reports. I might have used it to help me with my chemo decision when I was sitting on the fence.

  • TexasRose2127
    TexasRose2127 Member Posts: 128
    edited September 2011

      thx Lindissima!  I will be scehduled for  the oncotype-dx. I am sure that will provide me with better info. I thought that was done during surgery; I will have to call the nurse to clarify my understanding.

    Did you have the test during or separate from surgery?

    Have a great weekend!

  • TexasRose2127
    TexasRose2127 Member Posts: 128
    edited September 2011

    Hi Ladies---  got the answer to my confusion on when the Oconotype DX was performed-- It will be performed from the tissue removed during surgery.  see below  Laughing

     To perform Oncotype DX, the pathologist will send several thin sections of the formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded tissue sample to Genomic Health. Oncotype DX uses a highly reproducible laboratory process known as RT-PCR to determine the expression of the 21-gene panel. The Oncotype DX test results are then integrated with other laboratory test results to help doctors formulate a treatment plan based on the unique characteristics of the tumor.

  • Miller1353
    Miller1353 Member Posts: 84
    edited September 2011

    My Ki-67 was 76%. With grade 3 IDC, this pretty much made chemo a slam dunk for me. I'm doing well...almost two years out. I was so worried and shocked when I heard how high my Ki-67 was on the initial pathology report. Now, I figure it is a piece of the puzzle, but not the whole picture.  Don't let it overwhelm you...things get better. What caused night sweats and panic two years ago, don't cross my mind anymore. You will, step-by-step, figure this all out. Warm thoughts to you for a successful treatment plan!

  • Cocococo103036
    Cocococo103036 Member Posts: 21
    edited October 2011

    The ki-67 is indeed a cheaper/faster/narrower form of the OncotypeDX. Some countries health systems and some insurers will not fund the more expensive Oncotype DX test. There is normally a reasonable correlation between the two tests, although there can be exceptions to this, as some of the posters here have noted. These exceptions become especially important when you are making treatment decisions.

    I have done a lot of reading of scientific papers about the ki-67 and if you really want to do the same, just input ki 76 into the Scholar section of your search engine and voila, up pops a mountain of research. My tip if you want to get on top of this material quicklky is to look for the meta-analyses as these helicopter above all the smaller ki 67 research and combine and report on all the results.

    One of the interesting things I read about ki 67 is that as a certain level of cell proliferation is normal in a normal ie., non-cancerous breast and they cited as the "normal" figure at 3% or less. My ki 67 was the lowest score it was possible to measure at -1% so it was intriguing I could have both breast cancer and such super low ki 67!  My cancer type is extremely slow growing and as its tubular, significantly less aggressive, but my message is irresepective of these individual scores, you still have a matrix of results you need to pool together and with all the results in front of you, you are then in a position to make lots of individual treatment decisions. Its a lot of information but if you are one of the "I want to know everything" types collating all this data into eg a spread sheet or treatment decision making matrix clarifies your options. I am acutely aware that not everyone enjoys or wants this level of detail.  

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited October 2011

    TexasRose2127 ~  HI, my k-67 was mentioned on the first pathology findings following my disgnostic mammo and FNB.  I was listed as follows:

    Kl-67 Proliferation Index1    Low Proliferation                Reference Range

                                                 % nuclei stained = 8.8         < 10% =Low

                                                                                            10-20%=Borderline

                                                                                              > 20%=High

    So, I read the report to mean I had cells that were Low Proliferation or slow growing. From the way I am reading the reference range on my report Less than 10% is Low, Borderline is 10 -20%and High is more than 20%,  I am confused as to the whole big picture, especially my ER+ is 100%,and Progesteron is 88%

    image

    Barb

  • fightinhrd123
    fightinhrd123 Member Posts: 633
    edited October 2011

    mine was 60 percent, i seem to be fine so far :)

    Laura

  • bluepearl
    bluepearl Member Posts: 961
    edited October 2011

    A recent paper from the British Journal of Oncology says there IS a strong linear compenent to Ki67 and OncotypeDX but the fussiness is the "intermediate". A person with a low Ki67 score can sometimes have an intermediate risk, but mostly if you have a high ki67 you have a high oncotypeDX score.....but not always. Fun eh? In B.C. Canada, they don't fund the oncotypeDx so I'm stuck with the Ki67 (low less than 10%) and I'm happy enough with that. That being said, NO..it doesn't have much to do with survival because high proliferating tumors respond well to chemo while slow growers can show up years down the pike as a recurrence. Fun eh?

  • maltomlin
    maltomlin Member Posts: 343
    edited October 2011

    Hi

    My ki67 score was 25 and at the time of my dx I really didn't realize that there was any significance in that. I now know that it's higher than normal but that it was expected with grade 3.

    The one thing to remember is that chemo works best on rapidly dividing cells (i.e. higher proliferation) so that is a comfort to me and I'm  still here three and a half years out and doing great!!

  • Gohan1983
    Gohan1983 Member Posts: 62
    edited December 2015

    Granny had Ki67-30% but very high mitotic index - 30/10HPF, after neoadjuvant treatment 15/10HPF

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