The Budwig FOCC

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  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited July 2011

    chilipadi, I am so sorry that the budwig protocol did not bring the results you desired. 

    It's been on my list for a long time to learn more, but it never bubbles to the top.  There's a number of reasons for that.  For one, I can't seem to find any quick references to what the complete protocol entails.  If FOCC is just part of it, what is the rest?   I've asked this question in the past, and my recollection of the response was to join the budwig yahoo group.  It could be a LONG time before that ever bubbles to the top of my list.  So if someone could at least attempt a summary, I, for one, would most appreciative.  

    I feel skeptical in advance of learning more about budwig for two other reasons.  First, it just doesn't make sense to me that the cottage cheese and flax needs to be mixed with an electric mixer.  Is it truly insufficient to vigorously mix with by hand with a spoon?  I inherently feel skeptical of why there would be such a difference between the two methods of mixing.  

    Second, in my own experience, I was eating what I consider a close approximation to budwig for well over a year, and I didn't see my cholesterol budge downward more than 2 points.  Upon reading Christiane Northrop's book on women's health, I followed her suggestion of mixing yogurt with freshly ground flaxseeds.  Fatigue was my biggest complaint at the time, and she suggested this breakfast could help.  I loved the food itself for breakfast, but I saw no change in blood pressure, energy levels or cholesterol readings after a sold year. 

    I realize what I was practicing was not budwig 'proper'.  Didn't even know about budwig in those days.  I did try it properly (I think so anyway) for a week in 08.  I swapped the yogurt for cottage cheese, and added flaxseed oil and used my thunderstick to mix it all.  At the time I had been on a very gradual upswing in energy levels, and after just one week of budwig, my energy levels took a giant backtrack of about 4 months.   That was the last of trying budwig.  From those who have practiced budwig and know its nuances, I am interested in hearing what improvements I might make if I ever decide to try it again.  

  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited July 2011

    One of my concerns is that Johanna Budwig used quark, a German soft cheese made using the same bacterial cultures as buttermilk.  It's really quite different from American cottage cheese (the translation as "cottage cheese" is a bit of a linguistic/cultural snafu stemming from the fact that quark and its Eastern European relative tvorog were often "home-made" and are not aged,  hard cheeses).  I also imagine the quark Johanna Budwig used was quite different from what is currently sold commercially as quark.  It's not clear to me that using cottage cheese, even organic, replicates what was in Johanna Budwig's quark.

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited July 2011

    Ann, what you've said can't be correct.  I'm quite sure that a "quark" is a subatomic particle (e.g., http://physics.about.com/od/glossary/g/quark.htm) and has nothing to do with dairy products, eastern European or otherwise.

    otter

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited July 2011

    Well there is that...and then there's this (which by the picture doesn't look like cottage cheese):

    http://germanfood.about.com/od/preparedfoods/a/quark.htm 

  • apple
    apple Member Posts: 7,799
    edited July 2011

    oh yeah.. I've had Quark, if it is the same cheese.  There are many ways of starting cheese in many cultures.  Cottage cheese is not that far off.. I don't remember the name of it in yugoslavia.  kind of like a creamy ricotta.... mine was kind of sour creamy.  I suppose the cultures may be important,... I can make a homemade mozarella that might be kind of close too.

     I creme cottage cheese sometimes to make a ricotta substitute for lasagna.

    and yes Otter, "quark" is a subatomic particle .

  • Leia
    Leia Member Posts: 265
    edited July 2011

    Althea,

    I posted, before,but the source of the Budwig on the internet is the Yahoo board, Flaxseedoil2. The complete Budwig Protocol is detailed there. I printed it out, I can fax it or snail mail it to you. I'll fax or snail mail it to anyone. 

    The yogurt is not the same thing as the cottage cheese.  You are altering the protocol and then saying it does not work. 

    That is nonsense.  

  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited July 2011

    But Leia, what is called cottage cheese in the U.S. is not the same thing as the quark (pronounced "kvark") used by Dr. Budwig -- yogurt might actually be closer to quark.

  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited July 2011

    Hi, chillipadi:

    You wrote: ".....I didi see an oncologist during the period I was doing the BP. However, Joanna Budwig made it clear that the protocol was not to be done with allopathic treatment like chemo. If it was to work, it had to be followed to the letter. So I didi just that....." 

    I feel this is the perfect illustration of how NOT to use alternatives; and I am pro-alternatives.

    Frankly, I looked into the Budwig, joined the yahoo Budwig group.....and decided that there is just not enough proof that the Budwig works, for me to embrace this protocol.

    I could be wrong: Melissa and others seem to have benefitted from the Budwig. But perhaps we should not underestimate the strength of our own bodies: perhaps our bodies are able to keep cancer at bay longer than we think, whether we use conventional, alternatives, or nothing at all......... 

    Besides, I would not have waited this long to consult an oncologist AND get treated.

    .....With conventional drugs, in this particular case.

    After 5.5 years of being a breast cancer patient, I am still against most toxic and minimally beneficial "risk-reduction" (or "adjuvant") treatments. 

    However, when survival becomes a more pressing issue, it's an entirely different ball game: the stakes are different at that point, I think. 

  • Yazmin
    Yazmin Member Posts: 840
    edited July 2011

    And Luan, I'll have to echo you here:

     Luan wrote:

    Melissa, we so much appreciate each and everyone of your posts.

    Yes, Melissa, I, too, am appreciating more and more all of your information. Thank you.

  • althea
    althea Member Posts: 1,595
    edited July 2011

    Leia, just a link would have sufficed.  I did some googling to find the answer to at least one of my questions from my previous post -- the week that I believed I was following the protocol at least a bit more closely than yogurt and flaxseeds turned out not to be the case.  Ok, I get it, there's more to budwig than FOCC.  Yet, that is the main aspect of budwig that most people associate with it. I've been moderately curious for a long time what the rest of the protocol is.  Now I know, thanks to google and finding the answer for myself.  

    Mainly, I posted on this thread because it seemed to be veering into unfriendly remarks and I asked questions to hopefully generate some useful exchange of information.  Instead I seem to have created a post that was too long to read which was then proclaimed to be nonsense without any illumination on where I was missing the boat.  I am unconvinced to join the flaxseed group and budwig is going back to the middle of my 'to read' list, where it's been since 2008.  

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2011

    Althea, many thanks for that :)))

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited July 2011

    Birdlady, hostility is rampant here especially in this section, one currently under siege is the Holistic Healing thread which i,m sure you,ll find amazing.



    No, my health status does not permit me to laugh it off, it is really upsetting. Many of our threads have actually been deleted by the mods, they had become a war zone unhealthy at best.



    I stay here because of the totally amazing, intelligent, compassionate and caring women i have the opportunity to communicate with and for the silent majority who is too afraid to post. I am very sorry for the many many women who have been driven off this site.

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited February 2012

    Melissa wrote:::

    "We're all scared, Sue.  I did alternative only for 4 years.  Didn't cure the cancer, but then, I'm stage IV and there is no cure.  What it DID do was save my life.  My prognosis was a year, TOPS, and that's if I was lucky.  Next March will be 5 years and I just had to start conventional therapy this past April.  So I would say that your sweeping judgement of alternative only isn't totally correct.  Even my oncologist said I was doing a better job than he could ever do.  ;)  If I can extend my Stage IV life with alternative-only, why can't an early-stage cancer be cured with it?"

    Melissa - this is the heart-to-heart I am hoping to find on BCO, thank you for sharing.  Been dealing with BC since I found a mass in July.  I always said if I had cancer or suspected I did, I would come out with all alterntive cannons blazing.  Easier said than accomplished.  Still floundering in creating my own far-flung, many-faceted protocol, but almost there.  And to toe the line.  Eh.  I will though.  

    Have been reading for hours, all the experiences are helping, all the information shared, all the research others have done and comment on, all the links posted.  Thank you to everyone. 

    I hope this thread continues.  I am incorporating BP with my protocol, it helps my energy, hunger, and I know that the foods are good for me.  A feather in the cap with many others.  I am one who does not believe in trusting in one way, not if my life depends on it, so I am using other advantages for my healing.  I am frightened, not that there is not a way to cure this, but that I will not have what it takes to figure out what I need to do and that I will not be in a safe environment to allow to heal, meaning away from the outside wood boiler that operates and smokes like an industrial park next door 24/7 365/yr.  But we are moving asap, going to any lengths.

    Thank you all for listening.  This was my first post.  If my profile is not on bottom, I did it wrong.  I was told Stage III, 2.5mm, right breast and one node, removed eleven nodes and tumor November 29.  HR and PR, and the radiologists, pathologist, surgeon and my practioner all want me to have another surgery because a margin on lateral side was not enough.... but I am not open to that right now.

     Anyway.... 

    I'm Diane.

    Adding the PS in hopesthe dx will show now 

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