I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

It's one of the impossible moral bargains that a civilized society has to make, though. In the same way as I would die protecting the Ku Klux Klan's right to say what they want, I favor health care for pedophiles. It isn't that I care about the rights of the KKK or the health of a pervert. It is that ultimately everything exists along a continuum, much as we hate to admit it (and I am not a moral relativist). So a right taken away from one group may be seen by some as applicable to a similar group, and so on. If one person gets to decide to silence the KKK, what is to prevent another person from saying "well, I don't like what my neighbour, an ultra right wing race baiter,  says," and so on until less and less unpopular views are silenced. One day, my view is silenced.

With pedophiles there is a similar slippery slope. Are we talking about a rapist of children, one who views porn, or a peeping Tom? These are gradations of a common theme, and not just because many are all three. The serial child rapist might possibly deserve the death penalty, but at some point a society has to draw a line. If the person gets to live, they must be considered human and therefore deserving of universal rights.

As an individual, I might wish the pedophile the worst of the world, but as a member of civil society, I have to fight for his human rights, even while I punish him for victimizing children. Democracy always involves hard, hard bargains. But it is preferable to the easy despotism of totalitarianism.

....and from what I know of the prison system (which is very little), they get what's coming to them there...and I'm good with that....almost.

A large percentage of pedophiles were themselves sexually abused as children.  I don't excuse the perp, but strongly feel we need much, much more in the way of help for the victims.

There has been too much covering up going on. 

Further, I think the perp should have to pay, pay, pay cold hard cash to reimburse for all the costs of their victim's treatment.  

No amount of money would every do. I've got to check out now before I open my big fat mouth and say something inappropriate for this board. See you all tomorrow.

Interesting perspective on the death penalty you almost never hear -- but a very compelling one:

I have a dear friend who survived being kidnapped and held in a shack (yes, horrible crimes continued there) somewhere in the Rockies by a psycho who called himself a "Mountain Man" in the early 1970s -- during a 10-year moratorium on the death penalty in the U.S. (it was reinstated in 1977).

She believes he probably would have killed her if the death penalty was in effect.  She is adamantly opposed to the death penalty because she thinks it endangers crime victims -- it gives criminals more incentive to eliminate witnesses.

Cindy .. I also am opposed to the death penalty .. for the reasons you posted.  It is a complicated situation.  I think the death penalty is cruel and unusual punishment.  I would not want to be on the jury of a death penalty case.  Maybe instead of death row, those punished to die should live in solitary confinement the rest of their lives 23 hours a day.  That would be a horrific punishment in the long term.

Bren

More like an eye for an eyebrow.

As a counterpart to what I have just said, I was very, very proud, as an American, of the fact that after we captured Osama Bin Laden we gave him a proper Muslim burial. We finally did what Bush and Cheney seemed unable to even comprehend we needed to do in order to remain great as a nation: we differentiated ourselves from a terrorist and displayed magnanimity -even in victory. Again, retribution is a small piece. Magnanimity and compassion play stronger roles.

One of the questions to ask:  what is the purpose of prison?

Is it to exact some revenge? is it to rehabilitate the person so that they will commit no further crimes? Is it to remove the person from open society? Is it to make money for the privatized prison system?

Certainly there are strong arguments to be made to show that capital punishment (murder by the state) makes no difference to crime rates. Otherwise, why does the US with its very high rate of capital punishment have more people in prison than most other countries?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/world/americas/23iht-23prison.12253738.html

To follow up on a question that was asked pages ago -- yes they ask your opinion on the death penalty during jury selection for a case where the prosecution is seeking the death penalty AND if you opposed to the death penalty you are automatically removed from the juror pool. Thus, the jury for any death penalty case is comprised entirely of people who are ok with sending the defendant to death if found guilty.

I heard one commentator on the Casey Anthony case suggest that the prosecution was seeking the death penalty in order to get a more "prosecution friendly" jury (since all of us crazy liberal anti-death penalty folks would automatically be removed from the pool), in hopes that the would eat least convict for the lesser child abuse/manslaughter type charges.

Ah the criminal justice system/prison system -- add that to the health care system, immigration, campaign finance, l'm sure I can add more -- as things that are totally broken in the US. 

wow, revkat, you must have been reading my mind when you wrote the above last paragraph ;(  I find it such a frightening time.

Didn't know that about the question being asked of juror's re: death penalty.  As for prison, the best reason I can think of for rehabilitation, besides being humane, is that person will probably be back in "society" some day...

Other authors I like are Jonathan Kellerman, Iris Johanson (although I think her quality has been going downhill), PD James, John Connolly and Michael Connolly. John Connoly has a series with a protagonist I love, Charlie Parker.

For non-fiction I recently read Pink Ribbon Blues and Overdiagnosed. Both are excellent.

It is a very realistic view of all things pink. Highly recommend it.

Just checking in - I won't be around Friday or Saturday.  Tomorrow I have to clean a house, then get my horse ready for the show on Saturday.  I will come in flopping exhausted Saturday evening so Sunday morning I hope to sleep in.  Hope to check in with ya'll Sunday afternoon sometime.

Jancie like you I love reading the James Patterson books..I especially love the Alex Cross series.

I also am sickened by the Casey Anthony verdict. There was also lots of stuff that was not admissable that the jury never saw or heard. I believe she is a sociopath and killed her daughter accidentally or intentionally..still murder. I like how she was all dolled up today in court with her hair done makeup on all giggles..I think she is just not right. Athena you should have given the closing.