Multi-centric question

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comingtoterms
comingtoterms Member Posts: 421

Hi all, I have a question regarding this diagnosis. At surgery there were five lesions found in my breast - in different quadrants, that had not showed up previous. I had a MS, which thankfully, I had already planned on. What do you know about recurrence stats, etc. on this type of cancer. Some of it was high grade DCIS, some was tubular - it was pretty much all over the place. I was told that they graded it via the size of the largest lesion (which was 2.3 cm) and that the rest was assumed to be of the same type: IDC, highly er/pr+ and her2-  I cannot wrap my brain about not testing each lesion for er/pr and her2 status, and why they don't "add up" all the lesions instead of just referencing the largest one, which would change the stage I was given: Stage 2 - Grade 2 diagnosis. Does anyone have more info on this? Thanks! Tammy

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  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited June 2011

    comingtoterms, That is how they usually stage us. In my case I had the .6cm along with a .2cm of ILC. I also had a small bit of LCIS. My BS wasn't concered with the others only with the largest one, and that was the one that was tested.

  • grneyd5600
    grneyd5600 Member Posts: 420
    edited June 2011

    Go to two places and it will help you wrap your head around it.

    First go to the section on the board here that talks about how to read your pathology report.  I believe it is under the Treatment & Diagnosis part.  It helps you understand the actual wording on the diagnosis and what the terms mean.  Once you know have a clearer picture on that you can go to the American Cancery Society page under breast cancer.  There is a link there that talks about reoccurance rates by stage.  I found them both extremely helpful.

    Good luck!

  • nikola
    nikola Member Posts: 466
    edited June 2011

    I went to surgery with possible two cancers and final pathology showed three. One was IDC, measuring 1.3 cm; second one was mixed IDC and ILC measuring 1.1 cm; third one was ILC measuring 0.2 cm. First two were tested and both were ER/PR positive and Her2 negative. Decision for Tx was based on the biggest one (second one happened to be same). Third one was not tested at all. At first I was concerned if third one wad Her2 positive and I was not getting anything for it but my onc said it was too small. In Canada if cancer is less than 0.5 cm even if it is Her2 positive you are not getting Herceptin.

  • lisa-e
    lisa-e Member Posts: 819
    edited June 2011
    I was also diagnosed with multicentric cancer.  I've read the same thing that you have, that staging is based on the largest tumor, and the one study I've found about multicentric tumor indicated that treatment based on the largest tumor, not the total tumor load, gives women the same odds of survival.

    They did test both of my invasive tumors and I had onctoype tests on both of them.  The smaller tumor had a higher oncotype score.  It just made more sense to me to consider both invasive tumors and my onc didn't disagree.  However, in the end, his treatment recomendation was based on the larger tumor.

    I also had several areas of DCIS and LCIS.  The treatment for my invasive cancer also treated those, by default.

    Here is what I think:  you do have to consider each invasive tumor and the risk that it will reccur, as an independent event.  However, you need to knos some stats to do this, becasue you
    simply can't add up the chance that each tumor will recurr and that overstates the risk.  
     
  • elimar86861
    elimar86861 Member Posts: 7,416
    edited June 2011

    Since you've already received comments on the multi-centric nature from others, I'll just comment on the recurrence.  You say you had a "MS" which I think you are using to mean mastectomy (Mx) and I have heard that with the removal of breast tissue, there is only a 2% chance of recurrence.  I don't think it matters if it is IDC or ILC on that.  I think it does assume that you will be on some kind of adjuvant drug therapy.

    Since they took out that many nodes and only found B/C in one, hopefully that means that every speck of whatever kind of cancer is now out of your body, so I would think you have pretty good odds to remain cancer-free.

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited June 2011

    Google multicentric multifocal breast cancer and you will get a wealth of information.  Some of it conflicting as in all things cancer.  Some studies say the long term risk of mets increases with multicentric, some studies say it doesn't.

    It think it would be highly unlikely, if not impossible, for one tumor to be HER2+ and one HER2- in the same breast at the same time.  Another cancer years down the road might be different, but not at the same time and in the same breast.

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited June 2011

    The rare favorable breast cancers, like tubular and mine, mucinous look distinctly different from the traditional types of breast cancer. If you had dcis and Tubular, even if it was in a node, your prognosis is excellent. Good luck and sending you my prayers and good thoughts.

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited June 2011

    Tubular carcinoma of the breast: prognosis and response to adjuvant systemic therapy.

    Kitchen PR, Smith TH, Henderson MA, Goldhirsch A, Castiglione-Gertsch M, Coates AS, Gusterson B, Brown RW, Gelber RD, Collins JP.

    Source

    University of Melbourne Department of Surgery, St Vincent's Hospital, Fitzroy, Australia. pkitchen@ariel.its.unimelb.edu.au

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND:

    Tubular carcinoma of the breast is an uncommon and usually small tumour, and is thought to have a favourable prognosis. The present study examined the long-term prognosis of patients with tubular breast carcinoma and the roles of axillary dissection and adjuvant therapy.

    METHODS:

    Eighty-six tubular cases were identified from a large worldwide database of 9520 breast carcinoma patients entered into randomized adjuvant therapy trials run by the International Breast Cancer Study Group from 1978 to 1999. These patients were followed for a median of 12 years.

    RESULTS:

    Forty-two (49%) cases were node-positive, of which 33 (79%) had 1-3 nodes involved. Ten (32%) of the 31 smaller tumours (< or = 1 cm in size) were node-positive. Patients with node-positive tubular carcinoma had a significantly better 10-year relapse-free survival (P = 0.006) and survival (P < 0.0001) compared with non-tubular node-positive cases. Overall survival was similar for node-positive and node-negative tubular carcinoma. Overall, 71 patients (83%) received some form of adjuvant systemic therapy. Of the 86 cases, 43 (50%) received more than one course of chemotherapy. There was an 85% decrease in the risk of death for patients who received more than one course of chemotherapy compared to those who did not (hazard ratio 0.15, 95% confidence interval (CI): 0.03-0.82; P = 0.03).

    CONCLUSIONS:

    Compared to other histological types of breast cancer, tubular carcinoma has a better long-term prognosis. Adjuvant chemotherapy may further improve prognosis and involvement of axillary nodes may not be an indicator for early death due to breast carcinoma

  • voraciousreader
    voraciousreader Member Posts: 7,496
    edited June 2011

    NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - New research confirms that tubular carcinoma
    (TC) of the breast has an excellent prognosis and goes on to show that outcomes
    are better than with grade I ductal carcinomas.

    "Although TC is known to
    have a favorable prognosis, it is still unknown whether this subtype represents
    a distinct type of breast carcinoma or whether it behaves like other low-grade
    luminal A-type breast carcinomas," Dr. Emad A. Rakha and colleagues, from
    Nottingham University Hospitals in the UK, explain.

    To investigate, the
    researchers analyzed data from 2608 primary operable invasive breast carcinomas
    entered in the Nottingham Primary Breast Carcinoma Series from 1989 to 2000. The
    study focused on the 102 TCs and the 212 grade 1 ductal carcinomas included in
    the dataset.

    Relative to grade 1 ductal carcinoma, TC was more likely to
    be identified on mammographic screening, had smaller median size, and was less
    likely to have lymphovascular invasion, according to the report in the November
    16th online issue of the Journal of Clinical Oncology.

    During a median
    follow-up of 127 months, both disease-free (p < 0.001) and breast
    cancer-specific (p = 0.003) survival were significantly better with TC than with
    grade 1 ductal carcinoma.

    None of the patients with confirmed TC
    developed distant metastases or died from their disease. Two patients who were
    initially thought to have TC developed distant metastases and one died from the
    disease, but on further analysis, their tumor histology was revised to grade 1
    ductal carcinoma.

    "TC is increasingly encountered in recent years as a
    result of the widespread use of and the advances in mammographic screening and
    can be managed by adequate local surgical treatment," the authors conclude.
    "Adjuvant hormonal treatment may be appropriate in patients with evidence of
    nodal metastases at presentation, but chemotherapy does not seem to be justified
    in patients without distant metastases."

    Reference:
    J Clin Oncol
    2009.

  • cbm
    cbm Member Posts: 475
    edited June 2011

    Hi, Tammy.  I had one tumor and a lot of DCIS.  but my tumor was made up of IDC, ILC, LCIS and DCIS.  I was 90% ER/PR+ and HER2+, but my HER2 (CEP17 ratio) was light.  

    Since all of these methods of calculation simply involve the counting of cells with certain characteristics, it seemed to me that in a mixed tumor, you could have a lot of variation in response to chemo.  They had already told me that the "board" had agreed on AC/TH but that there was a case for other choices of treatment.

    So I asked my doctor if that all meant that some part of my tumor could be TN and he said yes. At the time, we were reaching a decision about whether or not to undertake a second year of Herceptin or apply for the Neratinib trial at the end of my first year of Herceptin, so the usefulness of the year 2 of Herceptin was the issue.   

    Warmly,

    Cathy 

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