Rules for reporting posts - please advise

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  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited June 2011

    Luan, people are welcome to join here to become informed -- people who have any symptoms of breast cancer, people undergoing testing and awaiting diagnosis, people at high risk for any number of reasons (family history, BRCA+, Li-Fraumeni syndrome, previous treatment such as for Hodgkin's lymphoma in childhood, or radiotherapy in childhood/adolescence), people supporting friends or relatives who have breast cancer...  Submitting "proof of having breast cancer" isn't possible for those people, and really would be onerous for everyone else (including the Moderators) -- and such a requirement is almost surely illegal!  AND wouldn't weed out frauds anyway, since they'd have no scruples about submitting fraudulent "proof."

    But I think a rule prescribing only one Board profile per person would go a long way toward reducing suspicion. 

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    Oh, and by the way, I have come across posts where the posters claimed to be lawyers, multiple and various professions are represented here by well-educated women, indeed.

  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2011

    I have no doubt that there have been and will be people who pretend to have BC. The world is full of crazy people. We just all need to deal with them. Eventually, they go elsewhere perhaps using a new "diagnosis". I think the beauty of this place is that it is a haven for the newly diagnosed. You know, the ones who find BCO at 3 am on a sleepless night. Sorry, but I don't think the idea of having to fax or email a pathology report is viable.

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited June 2011

    Very true, Luan.  There are quite a few bright and well-educated people on these boards.

  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited June 2011

    Luan -- I'm not sure what you meant by your last comment.

    Certainly, there are accomplished women here in all fields.

    Then, of course, some people may "claim" something that's not true.

    This is the internet, and we do have to take everything with a grain of salt!

    However, when you trust someone, and meet them through PM, and then phone calls, and then sometimes even in person -- well, my experience has been that most people here are who they say they are.

  • Alpal
    Alpal Member Posts: 1,785
    edited June 2011

    Actually, I'm a brain surgeon. I just don't like to brag about it. Wink

    Interestingly, there are more than a few posters on here who guard their identity and professions. It was publicized that Elizabeth Edwards participated in a BC support forum.  I'll always wonder if she ever posted on our Stage IV forum.

  • sas-schatzi
    sas-schatzi Member Posts: 19,603
    edited June 2011

    Good lord 4 pages since May 27th

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited June 2011
    Sas .. we're a chatty bunch aren't we.  Laughing
  • -angel-
    -angel- Member Posts: 222
    edited June 2011

    Luan, breast cancer does not discriminate.  I'm not sure what your point is of your last comment either!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    AnnNyc seems to think that some are dogs.....

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited June 2011

    Oh, come on now, Ann wasn't calling anyone a dog.  You're just being silly.

    Love your signature line, by the way!  It's hilarious!

  • Lynn18
    Lynn18 Member Posts: 416
    edited June 2011

    Lewing:  I like your ideas, but how can you prevent one person from having multiple identities?  That person can use their various screennames to delete someone, apparently.  This seems to me the ultimate form of cyber bullying.

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited June 2011

    Lynn,

    Could the Moderators limit identities to one per IP address?  This seems a simple way to fix the issue, but then I'm not a programmer and don't understand fully how it all works.

    E

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited June 2011

    May I offer my experience as a moderator of a top ten big board?  It's a very active board, as this one is.  Like all boards, it has the same infighting and problems.  

    To be fair I'm not in the loop on board politics here, and don't wish to be.  I wasn't even aware that a certain number of reports automatically removed the post, which is a bad idea, IMO, and ripe for abuse.

    That said, I am offering my experience, as both a moderator and as a person who has helped to train other moderators and have set up moderating for other boards.  You can take this for what it's worth - maybe it'll spark some positive discussion or maybe it won't, but my intention is not to knock anybody or create an issue.

    First, moderating is a very tough job.  You cannot read every single thing that goes on on the boards.  You must rely on the report button to catch spammers and people who violate the rules.  It is likely an unpaid job, which means that the mods do it in their spare time, when they are around. In my forum, the reports  come to my email inbox. If it seems like it takes hours to get to a report, it's because I'm doing something else and haven't checked my email, and the same with the other mods. It can depend on timezones, holidays, etc.   We are very good but we have lives too.  Anyway, I click the link in the email  to get to the offending post, and decide if it violates a rule or not.  If so, I will remove it and let the offender know which rule was violated.  If close a thread, I cut and paste the rule and give my reasoning.

    That is not a perfect system, because people gang up and report a subset of users posts, which seems to be the complaint here.  Sometimes, due to the gang-up situation, a user is goaded into responding negatively.  As a mod, I often don't have time to read an entire 30 page thread so it is unfortunate, but one person may get their posts deleted more than another because of the "bullying" activity.  However, it does eventually become apparent when somebody is ganging up on somebody else and at that point, I stop responding to those people's reports, so it will come back on them.  I always warn the ganged up on person that they still have to follow the rules and to try not to let people get under their skins and respond with flaming.  They are still responsible for their actions.

    I have found over the years, most users are not objective when it comes to the rules.  If what is said offends them personally, they report it as a violation, when it really isn't.  For that reason, we don't allow discussion of politics or religion.  The exception is when something major is in the news, but those are heavily moderated (which means we read them) and we are proactive in warnings and removing posts.   And, for that reason, moderating makes people angry, because their personal feelings get involved too much and they can't see what is a real violation and what is something they don't like.

    Moderating is a thankless task and most people don't know how much mods do to make a board a pleasant place to be.  Without moderation, spammers and nuts would take over.

    Our rules are very specific.  The rules here, in my opinion, are too vague.  

    We have rules and guidelines, and specific consequences that are spelled out to everybody and I'll share them here. I did change things specific to my board so that they would match here:

    .

    Forum Rules

    1. You may not post material that is false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, discussion of race, sex, or politics, or material that would otherwise violate any law, including copyrighted material (unless that copyright is owned by you or this forum.)
    2. No links to any website that discusses anything that is not permitted on this forum.
    3. No Flaming - You may not assault, harass, or degrade other community members in your activities in the community.
    4. No use of obscene language or photos, or links to obscene language or photos.
    5. Avatars are small graphics that are displayed under your username whenever you post. You may use any cartoon or non-moving graphic. However, to enhance the community aspect of this board, we strongly encourage a photo of yourself.  Avatar images of a political, rude, obscene, or sexual nature are not permitted.  You also may not use animated images, or another member's personal photo.  We reserve the right to remove such images or take further action (including but not limited to account suspension) as deemed necessary.
    6. You may not post to the site under multiple User ID's.  If it is found that you are doing so, action will be taken including, but not limited to, account suspension or banning of all affected or applicable User ID's.
    7. No links to advertising or spam are permitted. No referral links are allowed. No linking to your own site for the sole purpose of driving traffic to it is allowed. No selling of products on the forum. Members may put a link to a "vote for me," personal site or blog, or favorite charity in their signature, as long as it is unobtrusive.
    8. Refrain from "yelling" - Remember, ALL CAPITAL LETTERS in print is considered yelling.
    9. Don't post "flame-bait" - That is a post just to provoke a reaction from other members. Those type of posts will be removed.  An example of this: "Only ignorant people take Chemotherapy."  A post such as "I'd like to discuss alternative therapies" would be acceptable.
    10. Using cryptic messages to "skirt" the rules is not permitted.  Posts of this nature will be removed.
    11. Duplicate posts or "bumping" of threads is not permitted.
    12. Do your best to choose the appropriate forums when starting a thread.  Moderators may move threads to the appropriate area as they deem fit and without notice.


    Policy Enforcement and the Role of Forum Moderators

    • Moderators are volunteers that help out the forum for free.  Please treat all moderators with respect in both public forums and in any private messages.
    • Moderators have the right to edit or remove posts that are in violation of any rule or ones that they consider offensive to the integrity of the community.  Moderators may lock a thread because it is has gone as far as it could go, in their opinion, or is heading down a path that would violate the rules or guidelines (based on experience).  Rules may be added or changed at any time.
    • If a moderator closes a thread, do not start another one on the same topic. 
    • If you have a question for a moderator on a decision they have made, you can send a PM and discuss it privately, and the moderators will do the best they can to respond in a timely manner.  Do not question moderators in public.
    • If there is someone in a thread or on the forum that bothers you, put them on the "ignore" list. Don't respond back to something with another flame or inflammatory response; even if you were technically the initial victim, action may be taken against you as well.  Rather, please message a moderator, who will address your issue in a timely manner.
    • Please remember that each moderator, being human with different life experiences, may see things through slightly different eyes and some variance is to be expected.  However, moderators promise to base their decision on content of threads rather than personal feelings about the person posting in them.
    • We have implemented a "three strikes" rule for violations.  Users will have two chances to follow the rules of the forum and on the third strike, the user's account will be banned.

      The first and second strikes will result in temporary bans from the community.  The duration of the ban will depend on the nature of the violation, to be determined by the site moderators.  The third violation will result in the offending account being removed from the community.

      Not every violation of the rules will result in the receipt of a "strike."  Flaming, fighting with other members, and duplicate accounts are considered to be among the most serious of offenses.

      As such, moderators will use their own discretion before issuing strikes, taking into account the motives and previous behavior(s) of the user.  There are instances where the user will receive a warning or have their post(s) deleted without a strike being issued.

      If you have any questions regarding this policy, please contact one of the site moderators in a private message.

    _____________________

    As you can see, on my own forum, this thread would not even exist. 

    I think more specific rules, designed for this community, would help a lot.  Maybe not the ones I posted but something that would address common problems here.  I also do not think that users should have the power to remove others posts.  Only a mod should be able to do that. 

    People need to realize that as much as they need a forum, it is part of somebody else's business.  The ads all over this place are not by accident.  This forum  costs money in servers, bandwidth, management, etc.  And it also brings in money and moderating decisions are often made to protect the business interests of the forum owner.  We users are here as guests, and we should behave accordingly.

    Do we need this place?  I do. Facing a brand new metastatic diagnosis is frightening and I need the advice and support of those who have been dealing with it.  Everybody on this forum feels the same way, so hopefully, people will take the time to think about that and let things go a little.  It would be wonderful if everybody could drop their grudges and just let people be, but that utopia will never happen. So, I offer some ideas to the mods and forum members that I hope will be helpful but if not, if they don't really apply here, I just hope my good intentions were clear.

    My board is dedicated to technology and has been going strong for 13 years now.  I've been modding there for ten and it's still very active and and we have many many members who were there from the beginning.

    I have no intention of becoming part of any sides or arguments - I don't know what or who they are and I don't want to.  So, I hope this is not taken that way by the mods.  I have some experience and thought I'd share it, and now, it's up to you to take it or leave it.

    Have a good day everybody. 

    This is a great forum and none of us could do without it. I thank the mods for their hard work and I thank the BCO owners for providing such a great place to get support and knowledge. 

  • lewing
    lewing Member Posts: 1,288
    edited June 2011

    Lynn18, I am far from techno-savvy, but I believe that computers have unique addresses - almost like a cyber-signature - that can be tracked.  Of course, someone could always head on down to the local library or an internet cafe and post from there, but at least there'd be something of a hurdle.  Right now it's ridiculously easy to log in with as many identities as you want.

    AnnNYC, I've always loved that New Yorker cartoon!  It is so, so true.  (And please, folks, don't take offense - it truly is a classic.  There was absolutely no subtext, just an attempt to lighten the atmosphere.)

    Edited to add a WOW and thanks to Coolbreeze for her incredibly thoughtful and informative post.  Lots of food for thought there.  (And Coolbreeze, I am so sorry for the diagnosis that has brought you here.  It makes your willingness to help out by sharing your knowledge on a thread like this even more gracious.)

    L

  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited June 2011

    Very good points, Cool-Breeze, and I hope the Moderators avail themselves of your experience and advice!

    Luan, I don't think people here are dogs!  Maybe you're joking!  I was just trying to lighten the mood -- that is a classic New Yorker cartoon from the early days of the internet.  See, I wasn't sure what you meant when you said, "there are women here who claim to be lawyers, etc." -- so i replied that there are certainly many accomplished women in many professions on BCO.

    But since you said "claim to be" -- I thought maybe you meant you didn't necessarily believe them.  And that's why I said, it's true, you're right, you basically have to take everything on the internet with a grain of salt (and posted that classic cartoon).

    But my final point was that everybody on this Board who I've gotten to know better (through PM, snail mail, phone calls, and even meeting in person) is who they represent themselves to be.

    Peace

  • AnnNYC
    AnnNYC Member Posts: 4,484
    edited June 2011

    Lewing -- thank you!  We cross-posted almost the exact same thing!

  • Lynn18
    Lynn18 Member Posts: 416
    edited June 2011

    enjoyful:  That seems like a good solution, but from what I understand, it is easy to have multiple IP numbers.  You could have access to several computers, both at home or work, or you could probably generate numbers yourself if you know what you are doing.  I am not a programmer either.  Does anyone else think there is one person with multiple screennames?   Seeing Athena get deleted like that was chilling. It makes me wonder who will be next.   

  • Bren-2007
    Bren-2007 Member Posts: 6,241
    edited June 2011

    I thought the doggie cartoon was cute .. my own Tank has been known to nudge my keyboard!

    Coolbreeze .. what wonderful suggestions.  Thank you for taking the time to write everything down.  I think the rule on no politics or religion would be hard to enforce on this board.  Well .. we could probably do without the politics, but there are tons of religious/spiritual threads and forums on here.  I do like the suggestion of clarifying the rules.  And especially clarifying what happens when a post is reported.  There seems to be some confusion about this.

    I do thank the mods and have appreciated their hard work since I joined this site.

    Bren

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited August 2012

    Seems best to eliminate the Report this Post - and just use the Ignore button. If someone starts posting on a thread that has been going for a very long time, and doesn't like what's being posted on that thread - then just stop reading that thread.  Seems the easiest way to handle this strangeness - anything to prevent someone from being "banned" when she is very ill, or might be needing help, just because someone has a "grudge" against her "gang" ( if there are gangs..)

    Who could POSSIBLY, POSSIBLY be bothered by the post of Otter's that was "reported"  - really!

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited June 2011

    You're right, Lynn, but as lewing said, it would make it more difficult.  The maniacally insane user could make it work, but it would be onerous for the "I'm having a bad day and that post got on my last nerve" user.  I'm hoping that most of us are in the latter category.

  • Lynn18
    Lynn18 Member Posts: 416
    edited June 2011

    CoolBreeze:  Thank you for the information.  And thank you moderators.

    Interesting that you strongly recommend using a photo as our avatar.  I had used my picture earlier, but then I thought I had read we shouldn't post personally identifiable information.  But I do love seeing everyone's photos. 

  • Wabbit
    Wabbit Member Posts: 1,592
    edited June 2011

    IMO there is too much craziness allowed to continue on this board to use anything anywhere near close to your real identity.  YMMV

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited June 2011

    Of course, rules need to be specific to the forum.  I don't recommend what I posted be taken verbatim.  My forum is dedicated to technology so there is verbage in there to prevent some illegal activities, copyright theft,  etc.  There is zero reason to have political or religious discussion on a forum dedicated to technology but here it is different.  Healthcare concerns are vital to our lives, and religion for some, as well.

    We found that having people use their own photo as an avatar built community.  It was a requirement when the forum started, and then people complained about privacy so we backed off.  However, more people complained about the lack of community and not being able to see what another looked like, so we put that wording in there.  Again, that is a forum with more males than females.  What we really want to avoid are blinking, animated, huge avatars and signatures that are so large you have to scroll a lot to see it.  Those make a forum look juvenile.

    It is very easy to match IPs for users and see if they are using different accounts.  Now, that said, we use vBulletin software - I have no idea what this software is.  But, with one click I can match users.  Yes, some people can use other IPs and hide themselves and we can't control it all.  However, even on a forum dedicated to technology, with a lot of programmers participating, we still manage to catch most of them.  Sometimes, we've banned an IP range when we had particularly persistent people coming back.

    If you don't have a "report" button spammers will take over, because the mods can't possibly watch every thread.  But, the ability for people to report and have automatic deletion should be taken away and I'm guessing based on technical experience that it's just a hack or mod in a line of code and not hard to do.  Just a guess though.

    Okay, gotta hit the store and buy my husband some beer for tonight!  :) 

  • revkat
    revkat Member Posts: 763
    edited June 2011

    Cool Breeze, you have lots of good ideas. One thing though, the administration of BCO has been asked numerous times to consider using volunteer moderators. My understanding is that the moderators they do have are paid individuals. Many regular users have volunteered to help moderate here but their offer has been refused. (Of course, any suggestion that regular, trusted users be given moderation powers is usually followed by a number of "But who will decided who's a trusted user?" "What is you pick someone who doesn't like me?" type posts. Sigh.) To me, part of the  issue is that BCO refuses to take responsibility for these forums in the manner that other hosts of boards this size with a population of people at a vulnerable point in their lives on a site that purports to provide medical advice, usually do.

  • Beesie
    Beesie Member Posts: 12,240
    edited June 2011

    Another day, another reported post.  I am reposting here what I wrote last night in the Alternate thread.  That post has now been reported.  Can anyone (preferably a Moderator) tell me why? What rule did my post break?  What rule did my original post (the one embedded in yesterday's post) break?  Why aren't the individuals who are reporting posts that don't violate rules being named and/or banned?  

    Any bets on how long it will be before this post is reported?

    Here's a copy of my post from yesterday: 

    .

    Popping in here to join the fray, but just for a minute.

    The posts that are being reported are not just in this thread. Here's a post of mine from the Just Diagnosed forum that was reported last week after I dared to post - just one time - about some of the same issues that have been discussed here:

    ********************************************************************
    Actually, any amount of DCIS is still Tis and is still Stage 0. The classification of tumors by size only applies to invasive tumors.
    Sommer, your diagnosis line indicates that you are Stage IIIC and had positive nodes. Assuming that's correct, then it means that while you may have had some DCIS, you also had invasive cancer. DCIS and invasive cancer are often found together; when that happens, it's the invasive cancer that determines the staging - the DCIS will be mentioned in the pathology report but it won't be relevant for staging. So your TMN staging would reference the invasive tumor (a T2 tumor, it appears) and not the DCIS.

    ********************************************************************

    Fortunately my post wasn't reported enough times to be deleted but seriously, how did it violate the rules? How was it not civil enough in tone?

    I bring this up only to make the point that it's not just questionable posts that are being reported. The Report this Post button continues to be abused. Posts are being reported simply because someone has a grudge against someone else or disagrees with something they said. I don't see how this will stop until the names of those who report posts are listed publicly.

    I'm going back to my cave. I come to this board to try to offer help and support to newbies. I do a lot less of that these days because I just don't have the time or energy to deal with the garbage. What I've found too often is that even when you are simply trying to offer support to newbies, you might inadvertently cross the wrong person (which is how I got involved with this whole mess in the first place). And then you run the risk of being insulted, being criticized and having your posts reported and deleted. It's not worth it.

  • kira1234
    kira1234 Member Posts: 3,091
    edited June 2011

    Beese, It makes no sense all of your Posts are so informative. I really don't blame you not coming here as often it isn't a very friendly place to come to these days.

  • Lynn18
    Lynn18 Member Posts: 416
    edited June 2011

    Beesie:  I am sorry for what happened to you; there was nothing wrong with your post.

    I just recently starting posting outside my main area (triple negative) and seem to choose the threads where a lot of trouble starts.  I don't want to give up, I have decided to stay away from those threads and choose different ones.  I am very excited to see a thread about books.  Anyway, like you, I worry about new people getting bad information from certain people.  I hope that things will get better and that you won't feel the need to stay in your "cave" (although I can understand it.) 

  • otter
    otter Member Posts: 6,099
    edited June 2011

    Re:  IP addresses

    Our internet service is provided via satellite (HughesNet), and that company uses "dynamic IP addresses":  http://customer.kb.hughesnet.com/Pages/1105.aspx

    I'm not exactly sure about this, but here's my understanding:  Every time the "airport" (internet) card in my computer establishes an internet connection via our satellite system (i.e., each time I boot my laptop or even just open the lid to wake it up), my computer is assigned a new IP address.  All the IP addresses that will be used for computers connected through our HugesNet modem are within a specific range, but the exact address (number?) will change each time a connection is made and the range can be modified by HughesNet as necessary.   I have two different computers at home, so that multiplies the possibilities; but the real grab-bag is that dynamic assignment process.

    Apparently, it's cheaper for an internet service provider to use dynamic IP addresses than static ones. But, that makes it nearly impossible to identify a BCO login as having come from my computer, doesn't it?  Even if I don't change my username or avatar and I don't have multiple BCO identities, my computer does.

    BTW, I love y'all, but I would be very reluctant to use a personal photo as my avatar.  I like my otter(s).  I did frequent a healthcare-related forum a few years ago in which people who posted anonymously were routinely shunned.  If a post wasn't signed by an authentic-sounding name, nobody responded to it.  This was not a moderated forum, and there was no "rule" prohibiting anonymous posts -- it was just an unwritten custom.  How the regulars ever decided which names were real and which were Memorex is beyond me.

    otter

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited June 2011

    Otter,

    I think my internet service is something like yours. It's called a proxy server. I'm not sure what it means but if I google WHAT IS MY IP? it tells me my number is a wide variety of IPs associated with different parts of the country.

    QUestion: Since you and many of the others posting seemed experienced in the recent differences people have here, I'm going to ask a question that has been probably been asked and answered a hundred times.

    Why don't the people who have a lot in common go start their own online groups? That way the factions wouldn't be angry and complaining about each other. It seems people absolutely hate some of the aspects of BCO and I see today that the hate has spread to several forums. It's scary to see cancer patients so upset when they could recruit all the people they have something in common with to a new place.

    Just askin.

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