Oligometastatic

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  • lorieg
    lorieg Member Posts: 802
    edited June 2011

    God, I would give anything to dance at my 2 year old daughter's wedding someday.  I am just hoping to be dancing along with her in Heaven.

  • lorieg
    lorieg Member Posts: 802
    edited June 2011

    That sounded weird.....my in Heaven of course, not her!

  • CoolBreeze
    CoolBreeze Member Posts: 4,668
    edited June 2011

    Do I expect to live 20 years?  No.  But, is it possible to live 20 years?  Yes, it is.  There are some women with mets who do live a long time.  Kathy Rich is one.  She is an author but she also has lived about 20 years with mets now, and here is a thread about her:http://community.breastcancer.org/forum/8/topic/751865?page=1#idx_26  

    I've heard of other women making it to the 15 year mark.  I myself personally know a woman who was dx'd with breast cancer, which spread to her brain.  Her son was only 12.  

    Well, now he's 24 and she is still alive.  Her son is my son's best friend.

    Jeanne Sather is on Year Nine.  She was about to go into hospice when she got on the TDM1 trial - and now she's NED.   

    I think it's important to be realistic.  You will have to plan to live a very different life than you expected and a much shorter life.  You have to face your mortality earlier than most.  

    But, you can also have hope that you will be one of the lucky ones who will get some time.  

    Here is an article for you about statistics:  http://www.phoenix5.org/articles/GouldMessage.html 

    Those are women who have beaten the odds, for sure.   My youngest son is 14 and I am going to see him graduate from high school and go on to college, without a doubt.

    And, I've really stepped up the nagging for my oldest son to give me a grandbaby! :) 

  • steelrose
    steelrose Member Posts: 3,798
    edited June 2011

    This "oligometastatic" topic is interesting. All of my doctors have been very aggressive in their approach to my cancer. In the year of my Stage IV diagnosis I had a tumor removed from my spine, rads, Tamoxifen, chemo, lumpectomy, ovary removal, and RFA on my liver. I am now precariously (but hopefully) perched at NED, with clear scans for 6 months. Do I expect to live 20 years? Probably not. But I dream of 10... not easy years maybe... but years nonetheless. Of course it could all change with one scan. It breaks my heart to see so many younger women resigned to the fact that they may not even live to see my current age (46). Their strength and maturity is so amazing... so far beyond their years. Prepare for the worst? Absolutely. But never, ever lose hope! Without it, we're all sunk. 

  • jhammel
    jhammel Member Posts: 36
    edited June 2011

    CB, thanks for the link to the Gould article.  As a medical statistician, I enjoyed Gould's proper understanding of the reported statistics for his disease.

    Another thing about median survival (or disease-free survival, if you are talking about patients in an NED state).  We sometimes see results that say that a particular treatment can extend median survival by only a small amount of time (i.e. measured in a small number of months rather than years).  I think that can be discouraging to those hoping for a bigger impact from their treatment.  Such results may be interpreted to mean that everybody tends to receive a small benefit, but that's not necessarily true.  It could easily be the case that a substantial minority of patients experience a tremendous benefit from the treatment, while others only experience a small benefit or no benefit at all.  Such a situation might also result in just a small shift in the median.  But the obvious upside is that some patients could have their life extended by a large amount.  With this in mind, instead of thinking that treatments tend to improve survival by small increments, I tend to think that for many patients it may be a matter of being lucky enough to find the particular treatment(s) that is going to have the large impact in her case.

    To further the point, suppose that a particular treatment came along that could actually cure existing metastatic cancer in 10% of patients, but did nothing for the other 90%.  Described using median survival, the impact of such a treatment might only be slight, but for 10% of patients, it would be the greatest thing ever.

  • lilylady
    lilylady Member Posts: 1,079
    edited June 2011

    There are some threads on here for long term surviviors some of whom I PM with. They are past the ten year mark and are living life. They have had periods of NED-most are on some type of drug but they deal with it. It has become PART of their life but not their whole life.

    jhammel-wondered what you did for a living...your writing way outpaces what most people understand. Great explanation on how to look at those stats. I had fallen into cracks ever since dx. Getting Her2 put me in a minority, getting liver/lung mets put me in a minority, no chemo SEs-again a minority. Huge response to tx-then oligo--not many people get there but the ones of us who do are thrilled.

    Everything about cancer and tx is such an individual thing. What seems poison for 1 person doesn't bother another. I had such a hard time in the beginning because they kept telling me I should have been sick-for a good long while-and I had never felt better. Kept thinking they had my films mixed up with someone elses.

    I am going to start searching out trials to see if there is any place doing any studies on us 3% people. Nothing I have read seems to have a consensus opinion or anything long term.

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited June 2011

    I'd love to see my daughter starting a family, but that might be too much to expect (another 15 years?) If I can get stronger and fitter every year I'm disease-free, I'll be able to handle any future treatments better and be able to do continue to do things with my husband and daughter for a long while.

  • china
    china Member Posts: 1,567
    edited June 2011

    I was one of the 6%-10% women that was diagnosed metastatic at the time my cancer was found. I wonder if then could I be in the 3% category of those with a cure? No such luck, my bone mets could not be removed due to the damage of my spine. Removing the area would make me a "spineless" person! Seriously though, after 1 year and 3 months of weekly chemo (3weeks on, 1 week recovery) for progression from bone mets to liver mets and NEW mets in hip and lumbar area, I recently had a scan that showed stability to my liver and bones. I am thankful for this news and pray some day to be NED but my onc told me that I would never be NED in my bones because the cancer cells can't be surgically removed. I am 4 years and running... they will have to take me down kicking and screaming all the way! Good luck everyone and very happy that some of you have a cure. We need to make our voices heard for more research and a cure rate for stage 4!

  • steelrose
    steelrose Member Posts: 3,798
    edited June 2011

    Heidihill...

    I like your attitude! I too am trying to exercise and get as strong and fit as I possibly can be at this point, with the hope of being able to fight for as long as possible!!!! Some days are easier than others, but I soldier on...

  • Brooklyn
    Brooklyn Member Posts: 36
    edited June 2011

    Hello, this is my first post but the topic caught my eye because I have been diagnosed with oligometastatic breast cancer. I have on very small spot on the top of my hip. I was diagnosed last year (on my birthday) July 8. Following the shock and depression I started what would end up being 4 cycles of taxotere, carboplatin, and herceptin. I then had radiation to my chest and axilla and in addition radiation to that spot on my hip. My scans were all clear, showing no activity anywhere after two rounds of chemo. I then had two more rounds and then a unilateral mastectomy in October of last year. I am ER+/PR- and Her2 + I am 29 years old with 3 year old and 1 year old boys. My doctor has taken a very aggressive approach and intends to treat with curative intent. The situation of a truely oligometastatic state is unique... my docotor told me that out of every 10 breast cancer pts he sees 1 has stage IV disease and that he would have to see 5000 stage IV pt's to find 1 of me.... that has true oligometastatic disease. Its a scary time but I am so glad that I have found this board. It has provided me with a lot of information and encouragement! I am young and I want to do whatever it takes to be around for as long as I can for the lights of my life, my boys.

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited June 2011

    I hate welcoming people here, but since you've just made me feel like I won a lottery with 1 in 5000 odds (wooohooo!), welcome to Club Oligomets! But you may be in a league by yourself...NED after two rounds of chemo! Wow!

  • katie31
    katie31 Member Posts: 442
    edited September 2012

    I really hope I am also 1 in 5000. Probably unlikeky but I can live in hope!!

  • Suze35
    Suze35 Member Posts: 1,045
    edited June 2011
    katie - when you think about it, those odds are WAAAAY better than winning the lottery!!!  So I say keep living in hope Laughing.
  • chainsawz
    chainsawz Member Posts: 3,473
    edited June 2011

    I agree....hope can never be a bad thing (IMHO).  I was dx with brain mets almost 2 years ago, and boy did it all seem grim...but hey, I'm still here!!   If I didn't cling to hope it would have been a very dark time.  Instead, I worked to seek out others who have survived long term and focused on that being my goal.  If it doesn't work out, at least I gave it a damned good shot !

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited June 2011

    http://www.breastcancer.org/symptoms/testing/new_research/20110603.jsp

    According to this, levels of c-reactive protein in the blood are predictive of outcomes. Also there is a correlation between tumor size and presence of distant metastasis with level of CRP. I mention this here because it would seem that there would be a correlation between (lower) levels of CRP and the oligometastatic state and therefore the benefits of an aggressive approach. Lower levels=more aggressive?? Wish someone would do a clinical trial.

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited June 2011

    heidihill. when you say CRP markers, do you mean the tumour markers our oncs sometimes follow?, or is this another test?...nerida...edited to add, i read the link, it is very interesting, but not sure..do the figures apply to stage IV as well, thanks, n.?

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited June 2011

    This is another test. Since the link says high CRP was found to be correlated with distant metastasis, it looks like Stage IV disease was included.

  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited June 2011

    do you think the 5 yr survival stats with low CRP levels applied to advanced IBC/stage IV heidi?, its quite hard to work out the wording for some reason, and im hoping it does.as asked onc today if i had been tested at dx, and i was, it was 0.6, low.

    wishing you all great results from this curative approach!, i was thinking about this alot today, and thought maybe we can all benefit from this information, thanks and best wishes lilylady.

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited June 2011

    http://breast-cancer-research.com/content/pdf/bcr2891.pdf

    Above is a link to the provisional pdf. The analysis of overall survival includes Stage IV, but not the analysis on disease-free survival. They explicitly state excluding DCIS, but say nothing about IBC. Only way to make sure is to contact the authors (see first page of pdf).

    Great to hear that your CRP was so low!!

  • lilylady
    lilylady Member Posts: 1,079
    edited June 2011

    Saw the first of 3 surgeons yesterday. She told me I am only the second person in 20yrs of practice that has been called oligo. Hope I can live up tp the billing...

  • katie31
    katie31 Member Posts: 442
    edited September 2012

    Wow lilylady thats amazing. Congrats! Keep us updated on your progress!

  • buggy1996
    buggy1996 Member Posts: 14
    edited June 2011

    Hi, I am also in the same position as you! I was diagnosed with Oligometastatic cancer one year ago at 32 years old. Braca negative and no family history. I had one liver mass at the time I was diagnosed in June of last year. I was told this was very rare since I had a 7mm tumor in the fold of my breast and one 5 cm tumor in the liver. I went through very aggressive treatment. I had biopsy of breast, very large lumpectomy, nine rounds of TCH, and also a biopsy of my liver. I have had numerous pet scans and now have no metabolic activity in the liver and the mass is undetectable. I am not a candidate for Rfa since it is right next to my artery, but resection is always a possibility. Instead of resecting something that is metabolically negative and undetectable the liver transplant dr. Watches it with MRIs due to being able to see smaller masses and this is separate from my pet scans every three months. In would need a full open resection if I ever have to go that direction due to the location of the mass.



    I have been cancer free since January and on tomoxifin, lupron, herceptin, as well as zometa as a preventive for bone loss every six months.



    Please feel free to ask any question!! I am happy to help and answer any of your questions.



  • katie31
    katie31 Member Posts: 442
    edited September 2012

    Buggy, did u have any node Involvement?

  • pitanga
    pitanga Member Posts: 596
    edited June 2011

    I was dx'd stage 4 in March 2008 with a local recurrence and one met to my C-spine. First I had a mx then my dr. put me on zometa and arimidex and zapped the met with 16 radiation treatments. Since then,  I occasionally get some false alarms from bone scans but so far MRIs and PET scans have been showing  no activity on the c-spine met and no [detectable] others. I feel very guarded about the situation--is it worth getting all worked up and then crash if a new scan shows progression? I just printed the National Cancer institute that was posted by someone above and I will take it to my next appointment to discuss it with my onc.

    Many thanks to whoever posted it!  (spaciness, I find is one of the AI side effects)

    Lisa 

  • jhammel
    jhammel Member Posts: 36
    edited June 2011

    Here is a recent article on oligometastases by the authors who coined the term back in 1995. 

    http://www.nature.com/nrclinonc/journal/v8/n6/full/nrclinonc.2011.44.html

  • buggy1996
    buggy1996 Member Posts: 14
    edited June 2011

    No node involvement 0/13.

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited June 2011

    Thanks, jhammel! So now there's induced oligomets and true oligomets, which is about limited metastatic competence. Cancer with a low IQ? Lol!

  • Heidihill
    Heidihill Member Posts: 5,476
    edited June 2011

    Thanks, jhammel! So now there's induced oligomets and true oligomets, which is about limited metastatic competence. Cancer with a low IQ? Lol!

  • reesie
    reesie Member Posts: 2,078
    edited June 2011
    I want that cancer HeidiWink
  • thats-life-
    thats-life- Member Posts: 1,075
    edited June 2011

    very interesting link jhammel...that is what i was wondering..could we reduce our met load so to speak, and then treat as oligometastatic...hmmm a girl can dream...i will annoy my oncs and take that link in to them. Resection seems to have good results doesnt it?..

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