I say yes, you say no, OR People are Strange

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  • 208sandy
    208sandy Member Posts: 2,610
    edited April 2011

    Those "Caps" are a hockey team!!!  Like the Montreal Canadians (you can tell who I'm pulling for).

    Sandy

  • River_Rat
    River_Rat Member Posts: 1,724
    edited April 2011

    Sandy, I was just teasing.  I'm near Detroit so you know it's the Red Wings here.  I was just pulling E's leg and now yours - Montreal Canadians you say - hmm...who knew they had a team.  Wink

    Truly teasing, may the best team win. 

  • pip57
    pip57 Member Posts: 12,401
    edited April 2011

    Patmom, actually Canada sells our oil to your country for less than we pay to get it here!

  • molly52
    molly52 Member Posts: 389
    edited April 2011

    Painterly, thank you for the article.  It was nice to see that a Canadian hospital was able to help him - but even nicer to see that he recognized and appreciated their efforts. 

    Medigal / Shirley :  I still don't get what you expect Obama to do?  What is the solution that he is missing.  US oil extraction is at it's peak in years and the whole world is suffering from high gas prices - specifically, what can the US president do?

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited April 2011


    Canada is our primary source of "foreign" oil, too.  O Canada!

    R_R and Sandy - I'm watching the Habs and Bruins play now, and of course I'm pulling for the Habs (even though they beat us in round 1 last year).  Did you know our baby goalie has never lost a playoff round in his career?  From juniors through the ECHL and AHL...and now he's kicking some NHL butt.  I just love hockey.  *hugging hockey*

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited April 2011

    the whole world is suffering from high gas prices - specifically, what can the US president do?

    Specifically, nothing.  Unless you want him to arrest all the oil speculators.  Or maybe try to put an end to the developing economies of China and India, whose consumption of oil is doubling every hour.  Or maybe invade and take control of the countries that supply all the foreign oil that many in the U.S. think should belong to them alone.

    You want to live by free market rules.  Supply and demand.  The Randians among you believe in total laissez-faire.  So why are any of you complaining when the free market allows speculators to govern the price of fossil fuels?  You should be celebrating the "free market at work", but instead you're demanding your President and the current government to do something about it so that you can have the low, low gas prices to which you've become so accustomed.  Free market rules or government intervention?  What do you really want?  (The "you" is generic and not meant for anyone in particular, BTW).

  • molly52
    molly52 Member Posts: 389
    edited April 2011

    I asked the question : Why are gas prices so high? and found this link.  The article is easy to understand (which I like).

    Summary of reasons:

    • high crude oil prices
    • political unrest (Egypt & Lybia)
    • the traders and their futures contracts
    • the value of the US dollar against other currencies (ie $1US = $.95 CAD)
    • surging demand from China & India 
    • distribution and taxes account for 45% of the cost
    • US increased demand over past 20 years from 15 million barrels per day to 20.7 million barrels per day.
    • The real estate market is down so investors are trading in oil instead.

    A somewhat limited remedy is to reduce consmption.

    http://useconomy.about.com/od/commoditiesmarketfaq/p/high_gas_prices.htm 

    I think this is all very interesting.

    BTW - I would prefer Canada not supply the US with more oil.  Oil extraction is harmful to the environment - and the environment is irreplaceable.  

    Currently, we are facing American investors trying to take the limestone out of the Niagara Escarpment area. For what?  Let's dig up the escarpmenet so somebody can have some new patio pavers!!!!!

  • Medigal
    Medigal Member Posts: 1,412
    edited April 2011

    E:  "Gas at $30 a gallon"??  Gal you had better lay off those pain killers for a few days.  The "bill" was about $30 and it was for I think 6 gallons of gas.  Not good but better than $30 a gallon!  We're in KY and gas is always higher in our area because of the additive they say they have to put in it.

    Ok, as to what do I want Obama to do about the problem?  If "I" knew the answer "I" would be Madame President and "he" would be writing my goofy posts for me!  I just know he is supposed to be surrounded by the best mines in the country and if they can't help him come up with some answers, we are in deep "doo-doo", imo.    Happy Easter Everyone!

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited April 2011

    Well, $30/gallon is better than $30/hour, which is what I typed first!  Hahahaha! 

  • CherrylH
    CherrylH Member Posts: 1,077
    edited April 2011

    For some people Obama will never be able to do anything right.

  • molly52
    molly52 Member Posts: 389
    edited April 2011

    Our gas prices (here in Canada) are higher than in the US, and our Prime Minister (Stephen Harper) is campaigning on how WELL he has run the economy!!!!!! 

    While some of his decision/non-decisions I personaly disagree with, I don't blame him for gas prices.

    I think the US is using Obama as a scapegoat.  To my mind, inappropriately laying blame doesn't do anything to fix the problem and probably confuses the problem more.

    Gas/oil prices/supply/consumption is a world problem.  No matter who is president in the US, I don't think he/she can wave a magic wand and make it all better.

    The article noted above listed what can be done to lower gas prices.  One I see that Obama could alter is helping with the political unrest in Libya.  He is trying to help with that, and people are mad at him for doing so.

    Another one might (at a stretch) be lowering consumption.  He could ask all Americans to use less gas.  Except, people would complain the same way they complained about Michelle Obama and her childhood obesity initiative.

    Or he could lower taxes, but that would mean more budget cuts.   Hummmmmm ........?

    Has any Republicans or Tea Party people offered a solution?

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited April 2011

    Trump did - Take Libya's oil.  Now that would mean the government took the oil and then....what?  Flood the market with lower-cost oil to decrease prices?  Wouldn't that mean the government had gone into the oil business?  Or perhaps Trump meant that the government should take Libya's oil and turn it over to the oil companies so they could sell it to us at inflated prices.  You know, because oil companies NEED more profit.

  • bluedahlia
    bluedahlia Member Posts: 6,944
    edited April 2011

    Happy Easter to everyone!

  • lassie11
    lassie11 Member Posts: 1,500
    edited April 2011

    Wouldn't someone in Libya object to Trump (or anyone else) just deciding to take their oil?!

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2012

    ....and Happy Easter to you as well. Habs fans.....did anyone watch the game last night?!!! That was heartbreaking and sooo hard to watch...ugh!

  • leggo
    leggo Member Posts: 3,293
    edited October 2012

    Medigal....what additive does your oil need in KY?

  • Medigal
    Medigal Member Posts: 1,412
    edited April 2011

    Happy Easter to All!!   And Trump or any one else in the US isn't going to just be able to "take" Libya's oil without a War!  Do they think Libya is just going to line it up and give it to us?  These jokers irritate me when they say such things.  Like we need "another" war!  I kind of liked Trump until he started talking like he had giant holes in his brain!

  • 208sandy
    208sandy Member Posts: 2,610
    edited April 2011

    R_R:

    Sorry I honestly thought you didn't know who the "Caps" were - I forgot you were in Detroit area of course then I would have known you were pulling legs.  Don't forget I was in the deep south for many years and I had to constantly explain hockey to people - just a knee jerk reaction I guess.

    Gracie:

    I did watch the game last night and no wonder I am on bp meds - I grew up in Montreal and I get hockey fever really badly at this time of year - keeping my stomach clenched for the next game!

    Happy Easter to everyone who celebrates.

    Sandy

  • rosemary-b
    rosemary-b Member Posts: 2,006
    edited April 2011

    Happy Easter!!!

    When we went to war with Iraq wasn't taking their oil supposed to solve our energy problem?. We see how well that worked.

    Oil prices are high everywhere so I ask the question Why is Obama to balame for the high oil prices all over the world? That may have been asked but it has not been answered. Some people blame Obama for everything.

    Now off to my daughter's for Easter. I hope everyone has a great day. 

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited April 2011


    Cindy -- that's the best and most understandable answer yet!  It's all too easy to find a figurehead -- in this case (and in most cases!) the President -- and say "It's all your fault".

  • Enjoyful
    Enjoyful Member Posts: 3,591
    edited April 2011

    Gracie and Sandy -

    I watched the game, too!  I was really rooting for the Habs and just hated it when some unnamed, unkempt Bruin scored the winning goal.  Ugh.  

    My sister and I have season tickets for the Capitals, but we can only go to game 1 of any playoff series.  Any more than that and my blood pressure goes sky-high!  It's like a horror movie - sit there peeking between my fingers and wishing it would be over.  Clearly, I need me some big-girl hockey panties!

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2011

    I'm on page 276 so don't know if anyone has said this.  Bush was used as a scapegoat when gas prices went up.  Hypocrisy anyone?

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2011

    Medigal, I'm sorry I didn't inform you that the video about Obama saying that the cost of "electricity would necessarily skyrocket" and he also said that coal mines would go bankrupt under his plan of Cap and Trade...that was when he was "candidate" Obama.  Two days before the election, Hannity had this "announcement" on his show.  Michelle Malkin came out with it first.  Pat Caddel (sp), a democrat who worked under President Carter and is a democrat strategist, was stunned that this info only came out two days before the presidential election!  Caddell probably learned a lot from Carter...what not to do. 

    This president, Medigal, has made it clear that he wants to get rid of fossil fuel.  All of this CO2 hype is just that....hype.  I suppose we should stop breathing.  And you know those cow "*arts" are a big pollution when it comes to expelling CO2....LMBO.  Time to stop eating beef...no more leather handbags or shoes.  Hmmmmmmm...wonder how Hollywood would like that?

    It has been said that by opening up more exploration of our natural resources, that just that alone would lower gasoline prices...it's about the psyche

    As far as the "Canada" thing....I'll believe it when I see it.

    What can Obama do....open up drilling permits in the gulf.  Yes, he's opened some, but not nearly enough.  As the republicans have said, not only do we want to DRILL BABY DRILL, but we are also very interested in other sources of energy.  There is no way that solar, battery, wind power, ethanol (big enviromental hazard..takes lots of water to grow and many, many pounds of corn to produce) and whatever scheme he has come up with.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51150.html

    Bill Clinton: Drilling delays 'ridiculous'

    By DARREN GOODE | 3/11/11 4:55 PM EDT

    Former President Bill Clinton said Friday that delays in offshore oil and gas drilling permits are "ridiculous" at a time when the economy is still rebuilding, according to attendees at the IHS CERAWeek conference.

    Clinton spoke on a panel with former President George W. Bush that was closed to the media. Video of their moderated talk with IHS CERA Chairman Daniel Yergin was also prohibited. (inserting my admiration that Bush does not bad-mouth Obama. Just wanted to make clear that it's me saying this because of the other slip-up.)

    But according to multiple people in the room, Clinton, surprisingly, agreed with Bush on many oil and gas issues, including criticism of delays in permitting offshore since last year's Gulf of Mexico spill.

    "Bush said all the things you'd expect him to say" on oil and gas issues, said Jim Noe, senior vice president at Hercules Offshore and executive director of the pro-drilling Shallow Water Energy Security Coalition. But Clinton added, "You'd be surprised to know that I agree with all that," according to Noe and others in the room.

    Clinton said there are "ridiculous delays in permitting when our economy doesn't need it," according to Noe and others.

    "That was the most surprising thing they said," Noe said.

    The two former presidents both generally agreed on the need to get offshore drilling workers back on the job.

    Clinton and Bush also agreed on the need for more domestic shale gas production, with Clinton noting that it has been done safely for years in his home state of Arkansas.

    Bush - who referred to oil and gas in the discussion as "hydrocarbons" - described the anti-hydrocarbon sentiment in Washington as "dangerous." He said while there is a need to develop new energy technologies, "we have to be prosperous in order to afford those technologies and, in order to be prosperous, we need to drill," according to Noe.

    Clinton was more cautious about expanding nuclear energy production, noting that can take a long time and is expensive. He also praised Bush for expanding wind energy in Texas as governor.

    Energy only came up among the last couple of questions from the audience, with the discussion dominated by talk of the geopolitics of the Middle East and anecdotes and memories.

    Clinton also said he was supportive of enacting a no-fly zone in Libya at a time when the Obama administration and other experts in the region are urging caution, according to witnesses.

    The panel with the two presidents closed out the weeklong IHS CERA, which included more than 2,200 Obama administration officials, industry executives, former diplomats and others. The Clinton-Bush event was the only one at the conference that was closed off to the media, at the request of the former presidents.

    Friday, President Barack Obama pushed back against Republican critics who blame his administration's policies for high gas prices.

    Obama said that domestic oil refiners aren't seeing a supply shortage - they're operating at near-full capacity. Instead, he said the recent price increases come from global market unease and economic recovery in fast-growing China, India and Brazil.



     

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2011
    WhiteRabbit wrote:

    Medigal ... did you notice that the video was from January 2008? 

    Agree with him or not ... he was being honest.  Telling people that electric rates would go up because of the costs involved in retrofitting power plants ... but that he believed it would benefit the economy in the long term.  He also acknowledged that if the American people could not be persuaded that it was necessary it would not happen.

    The C&P passed the House of Reps.  It was dead in the Senate.  I do believe they went around ways to tax these carbons by giving the EPA the authority.

    If this president is so concerned about the disabled, poor, elderly. blah blah blah...does he not understand that people who are on a fixed income cannot afford higher energy prices? 

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2011

    I love this YouTube.  It shows the arrogance of this man.  Many people cannot afford to buy a new car that has good gas mileage.

    Obama on Gas Prices "Get a Trade In"  

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vwVaEJ55Iw&feature=related

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Member Posts: 1,376
    edited April 2011

    Does anyone know what kind of mileage his motorcade gets per gallon?  He who gets driven around in a low mpg vehicle, and always travels in the company of several other low mpg vehicles doesn't get to tell other people that they need to buy a high mpg vehicle without sounding like an arrogant fool. 

  • crazy4carrots
    crazy4carrots Member Posts: 5,324
    edited April 2011

    Seems to me that all countries should be working on a goal of lowering dependence on fossil fuels -- after all, they are not an infinite resource.  Of course, I guess there are those who believe that is not true, same as those who disbelieve all the expert climatologists.....

  • molly52
    molly52 Member Posts: 389
    edited April 2011

    PatMom - everybody should try to reduce their gas/oil usage without out looking at what others are doing.  Just do it!  Don't concern yourself with what your neighbour is doing.

    It is fruitless to find a most extreme example to justify inaction on the part of everyday people.

    Solutions are what is needed, not stall tactics.

  • Wabbit
    Wabbit Member Posts: 1,592
    edited April 2011

    The only thing in the past that has reliably brought down gas prices is when the cost gets to the point that people start using much less.

    I personally believe that alternate energy sources are the long term solution.  It won't give instant gratification of course.  Too bad we did not continue working on this problem since the issue first came up in the 1970s ... instead we pretended that everything would just be OK somehow and we didn't need to change our ways at all.

    I'm sure Obama understands that high gas prices hurt.  Perhaps it would be more beneficial if the oil industry and the market speculators cared about that.  Because the President is not a dictator and he cannot just tell them what they can charge.  Unless you want him to nationalize the industry or something? 

    Good article here ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/obamas-gas-price-charade/2011/04/22/AFJLFGQE_blog.html

    "But if there is fraud here, it is that, in an attempt to appear to be doing something about inflating gas prices, the president and Republicans in Congress continue to fuel the myth that the federal government might, with an investigation here or plans to drill there, affect the short-term world-market price of a commodity America doesn't and never will control.

    "Rising gas prices simply aren't Barack Obama's fault. Just as they weren't George Bush's fault. And Americans need to get used to factors affecting gas prices that aren't in America's control, particularly that the developing world will demand more oil as nations such as China and India grow their economies. That's not ideology; it's supply and demand."

    Basically skewers both political parties for playing politics with something we don't ... and can't ... control.    

          

  • Medigal
    Medigal Member Posts: 1,412
    edited April 2011

    Shirley:  Thanks for the You Tube, as usual.  I don't need to watch tv or even buy newspapers anymore.  I just come on here and read the "Shirley Gazette".  Now I am not picking on you!  I truly appreciate the time you take to be on top of these problems and share what you find with us.  As for the You Tube, I think reading what others were saying about Obama was twice as interesting!  He is NOT fooling most Americans, only those who don't want to face reality, imo.  We are retirees with a basically small car and it still costs us a chunk of money to get gas.  However, we don't get to get a bit of extra interest on any savings any one is fortunate to have because the banks have drowned us in that arena!  Yep!  "Save for your Golden Years so you can find out your money is practically worthless and the banks get to use it and if you get 1% interest you can go  buy that tootsie roll you have been yearning for!!" 

    Sorry if it seems like Obama is being blamed for everything because sanity tells us this crap is not all his making.  But HE did accept the job as President and I don't really see him making any concrete choices to help us.  If you pay close attention to his talks, you can see he seems to be lost about what to do.  That frightens me!  I need my President to look like a leader who can find answers to our problems not some young kid waiting for "mommy" to tell him what to do.  Crap!  I don't like getting angry about politics on Easter.  It is the Resurrection for some of us so maybe we can "resurrect" a true leader in 2012!  

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